Pivots For Flexible Spacecraft

[zeel]

The pivot on the grabber is awesome, and it's not just awesome for aligning centers of mass. As I demonstrait in this thread the grabber can be used to creat long chains of pivots that then function as giant space arms (or tinticals). The unfortunate part about this is setting up such an effect is a huge difficulty. You can not place parts on the ends of grabbers like you can docking ports. Thus getting all the pivots in a row is very hard to do.

I am suggesting two new parts: The pivot, and the powered pivot.

Both parts will have a connection point on both ends and act like the grabber pivot in flight. However they will also get some interesting tweaks.

A pivot can bend along two axes, and with tweeks one could choose to free/lock either of them independently to create elbow joint. Furthermore the resistance of the pivot could be adjusted so that they could not swing as fast. Finally a range of motion could be selected, so that they could not swing as far as normal. Another addition would be the ability to free/lock pivots using action groups, which can't be done with grabbers.

The powered pivot would have the extra ability of setting the angle in game - after the angle is set in the context menu electrical power will be expended to move the pivot to the desired angle.

It would also be nice if they could rotate as well, allowing for things like super-size wheels made of fuel tanks for massive surface transports, or engine angling for VTOLs or to allow hard to turn ships to burn retrograde without spinning around or having two sets of engines. Ideally you could even set angle stops in the tweak menu and assign those to action groups, allowing the transition to be done smoothly.

Not to mention how useful this would be for space stations, as you could fold them up for lunch instead of sending them up as modules.

Edited April 9, 2014 by zeel

[MKI]

I feel something as simple as a dedicated pivot point could change how players make ships by a lot.

Sadly something like this doesn't have much need to be implemented and is more of a side thing to add with primary changes. Such as the Rapier. I really love the idea of pivots and moving parts, but it will take time to make the parts and balanced them. Lots of issues arise when you start moving things around. I just hope the dev's don't just leave moving parts for modders.

[r4pt0r]

this would also allow for cargo bays with working doors. robotics aside, you could also parachute a crate to duna with a rover inside, and open that crate along a pivot hinge and drive your rover out. i think that would look pretty sweet.

[zeel]

I feel something as simple as a dedicated pivot point could change how players make ships by a lot.

Sadly something like this doesn't have much need to be implemented and is more of a side thing to add with primary changes. Such as the Rapier. I really love the idea of pivots and moving parts, but it will take time to make the parts and balanced them. Lots of issues arise when you start moving things around. I just hope the dev's don't just leave moving parts for modders.

this would also allow for cargo bays with working doors. robotics aside, you could also parachute a crate to duna with a rover inside, and open that crate along a pivot hinge and drive your rover out. i think that would look pretty sweet.

While more complex moving parts would be awesome, simply pivots based on those present in the claw would be a great first step. Adding such a part would not be too difficult.

[r4pt0r]

thats what im saying, a door hinge is the simplest pivot, it only moves on 1 axis.

[Capt Snuggler]

simple 1axis hinges would be great for fitting things inside fairings. which makes me think that we will likely see hinges when fairings are added.

[Yakky]

I agree, even a simple one-dimensional hinge part would be a great start. Clever builders could exploit multiple hinges to do all kinds of cool stuff. This would open up whole new worlds of construction possibilities.

Parameters would include a tweakable angle setting (0-180 degrees), a "move to target angle"/"move to original position" toggle button for on-demand powered moves to the specified angle (to allow activation by action groups etc), and a "locked"/"free movement" selector button that would allow it to swing in an unpowered state (like the claw).

From a construction (VAB/SPH) perspective it might be nice to be able to select 0-degree or 90-degree variants. (Maybe a 180-degree version as well.) These would all be identical except for the initial angle. Once activated they could go to any angle specified.

I envision powered hinge movements taking some nominal amount of electricity. Powered movement wouldn't be possible without electricity, although a Kerbal would be able to activate the "free movement"/"locked" toggle even in the absence of electricity.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Yakky
clarified thoughts about electricity requirements

[Red Iron Crown]

Robotics/mechanics are on the What Not To Suggest List. Subject has been discussed repeatedly, I think everyone acknowledges the usefulness of such parts.

[Capt Snuggler]

but as we found out recently with 64bit, if the community continue to beat the drum for the features they want, they might just pop up sooner rather than later...

[r4pt0r]

but as we found out recently with 64bit, if the community continue to beat the drum for the features they want, they might just pop up sooner rather than later...

and since this thread survived for 4 months, we can assume its ok to promote the idea in this thread? Hope so.

[Justin Kerbice]

Maybe it just need some doc instead of new parts or code as there, there is new joints in attach nodes paragraph:

You can define two other values; size and method.

'size' allows you to change the node's sphere size in the editor and has no effect on gameplay.

'method' allows you to change the physic joint type. Its values can be; FIXED_JOINT, HINGE_JOINT, LOCKED_JOINT, MERGED_PHYSICS or NO_PHYSICS. Not sure what madness you can do with this value, will leave it to you all to play.

But nothing went out after that and things stayed in the dark.

Also, claw use some module (ModuleGrappleNode) and contraints which can help making moving/robotics parts but again, no doc.

And I don't see the needs of such hinge for just cargo bay doors as all the existing ones, based on animation, already works.

[James M]

I support this idea.