Should KSP have a Delta-V readout?

[boborene]

On 6/14/2016 at 8:44 PM, 5thHorseman said:

It's really hard to get perfect, and if it's not perfect more people will complain about it being not perfect, than complain now about it being non-existent.

If you dont get lay with miss univers, dont lay at all.

[rkman]

On 14-6-2016 at 7:44 PM, 5thHorseman said:

It's really hard to get perfect, and if it's not perfect more people will complain about it being not perfect, than complain now about it being non-existent.

So there are many complaints about KSP edu?

http://www.kerbaledu.com/features

 

 

On 17-6-2016 at 11:35 PM, GoSlash27 said:

 There are three options, not two: 1) Guess, 2) do the math, or 3) get a mod.

4) wait for the game to be completed.

Edited July 1, 2016 by rkman

[John FX]

Can`t believe this is still being discussed.

The answer is so obviously `yes`

[evileye.x]

Yay another delta veee topic.  Just install KER. 

[Padishar]

33 minutes ago, evileye.x said:

Yay another delta veee topic.  Just install KER. 

It isn't "another" deltaV topic, this thread is over 2 years old and was first dredged up 14 months ago and then again a couple of months ago.  So, it could well be the same deltaV topic you remember from before...

[Red Iron Crown]

1 hour ago, evileye.x said:

Yay another delta veee topic.  Just install KER. 

That answer is not going to be sufficient for the console players later this month.

[evileye.x]

26 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

That answer is not going to be sufficient for the console players later this month.

Oh, those poor souls...

[Wjolcz]

7 hours ago, rkman said:

http://www.kerbaledu.com/features

What the hell Kerbal EDU has all that and the  "basic" version of the game doesn't. I'm seriously questioning why I spent 15$ on this game.

 

 

Seriously.

[klgraham1013]

How do we get a copy of KSP EDU?  That information looks useful and conveniently organized.

[Red Iron Crown]

6 hours ago, klgraham1013 said:

How do we get a copy of KSP EDU?  That information looks useful and conveniently organized.

It's a separate purchase, and comes with another KSP license. I don't think you can buy just the additions.

For regular players I would recommend just modding your game.

[MaximilianPs]

As I said, I guess it's a non sense, to get out from the game to know the Delta-V to reach a planet.
Ok, the game should hidden, until you reach it !
It could also just store your datas, so if you make excrementsty-maneuver and use 120000 delta-v to reach moon, Kerbal could tell you that the last time you have used 12k DeltaV to reach it, but at least u'll have a reference !

And BTW I still think that the professor Wernher von Kerman should assist you!

If you lunch a rocket for a contract and still missing some required component, he *MUST* warn you. (than via, Ok, Cancel you can still ignore him)
if you lunch a rocket with a destination assigned, and it will never reach it 'cause lack of DeltaV, he *MUST* warn you.

Otherwise, what is the point of creating certain characters?

#Squad #UMadeItUseIt !

[Megadeath]

19 hours ago, MaximilianPs said:

As I said, I guess it's a non sense, to get out from the game to know the Delta-V to reach a planet.
Ok, the game should hidden, until you reach it !
It could also just store your datas, so if you make excrementsty-maneuver and use 120000 delta-v to reach moon, Kerbal could tell you that the last time you have used 12k DeltaV to reach it, but at least u'll have a reference !

And BTW I still think that the professor Wernher von Kerman should assist you!

If you lunch a rocket for a contract and still missing some required component, he *MUST* warn you. (than via, Ok, Cancel you can still ignore him)
if you lunch a rocket with a destination assigned, and it will never reach it 'cause lack of DeltaV, he *MUST* warn you.

Otherwise, what is the point of creating certain characters?

#Squad #UMadeItUseIt !

I'm sorry, but I take it English is not your language? I didn't understand that.  Could you try in your language and maybe another user who speaks the same could interpret for every one?

[pandaman]

IMO,  yes there should be a Dv readout in stock.  

Although a fair point was raised elsewhere that it is actually quite difficult to get right with a lot of the 'odd' vessel configurations that we players come up with.   So I understand Squad's reluctance in wanting to include a feature that could give players incorrect data, especially given how vocal they get sometimes when something appears 'broken'.  No doubt there is a middle ground that informs us of potential errors because of our staging configurations etc.  But that still has to be programmed in.  

As much as I think there should be this feature as soon as practical,  I would rather wait a bit longer and get a really good implementation and UI rather than a 'quick' inclusion that needs a rewrite.

[kBob]

49 minutes ago, pandaman said:

snip

As much as I think there should be this feature as soon as practical,  I would rather wait a bit longer and get a really good implementation and UI rather than a 'quick' inclusion that needs a rewrite.

But then shouldn't the edu part of the forums be flooded with complaints about the "inaccurate" dv readouts?  I don't see them (or could be they are on reddit where I don't venture but I would still expect some here).

[pandaman]

42 minutes ago, kBob said:

But then shouldn't the edu part of the forums be flooded with complaints about the "inaccurate" dv readouts?  I don't see them (or could be they are on reddit where I don't venture but I would still expect some here).

Maybe, that's a fair point.  But it also depends on whether any inaccuracies get noticed or not.  I wouldn't know without studying carefully whether I ran out of Dv because of my poor piloting or I just didn't bring enough because I my engineer screwed his calculations up, and I know my piloting is a bit inefficient so I'd tend to blame that anyway and it's also why I always make sure I allow a good margin.

Also, for me, it's not just about how accurate the calculations are, it's also about how it's implemented and displayed in game.  I use KER, and it works and is, as far as I can tell, accurate enough for me, but a stock implementation could/should be presented UI wise in a more integrated way, both in the editors and in flight.

[kBob]

@pandaman I think no matter how it's done it's never going to give 100% accurate readings and they wouldn't be that useful because of the problems you suggest.  As it happens I'm working on an external program that calculates dv (among many other things) from a craft file.  One solution I've thought of is to not provide the figure too exactly but rather rounded to a reasonable point perhaps to the nearest 50 or at best nearest 10 so the implication of pinpoint accuracy is not there, of course a warning would help too  .

Edited July 3, 2016 by kBob

[pandaman]

@kBob

Your up coming mod/calculator looks interesting. 

I would agree that 100 accuracy is probably an unrealistic expectation and nor is it essential as long as it's close enough.  As I recall the difficulties that were mentioned related particularly to complex staging and drop tanks etc.  An indication that a calculated Dv may be a bit out depending on how you activate staging would be handy.

[Tex_NL]

On 1-7-2016 at 3:05 PM, Red Iron Crown said:

 

On 1-7-2016 at 1:32 PM, evileye.x said:

Yay another delta veee topic.  Just install KER. 

That answer is not going to be sufficient for the console players later this month.

That only increases the need for a dV readout to be stock.
The 'excuse' that a dV number is very hard to get accurately and therefore it is not added yet is flawed. It does not need to be 100% correct. The stock physics calculations already cut corners. Most shortcuts are due to a trade-off between realism and gameplay. Others are due to floating point errors, bugs or deliberate choices. KER's dV readout is  not 100% correct and neither is MechJeb. But both are more than accurate enough to work in KSP. All a stock dV readout needs to be is just the same: adequate.

[John FX]

On 01/07/2016 at 2:05 PM, Red Iron Crown said:

That answer is not going to be sufficient for the console players later this month.

A very good point. Once there is a console version, "There`s a mod for that" stops being valid even as a glib dismissal

[Corona688]

On July 1, 2016 at 6:55 PM, Red Iron Crown said:

It's a separate purchase, and comes with another KSP license. I don't think you can buy just the additions.

For regular players I would recommend just modding your game.

 

On July 1, 2016 at 4:38 AM, rkman said:

So there are many complaints about KSP edu?

http://www.kerbaledu.com/features

4) wait for the game to be completed.

what.

That a stock delta-V indicator exists in kerbaledu guarantees there will never be one in the vanilla game.  They can't even make it DLC.  It'd be against their own interests to compete with kerbaledu like that.

So, it's not going to happen.  Period.  Thread over.

Install KER, I guess.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Corona688

[Stoney3K]

21 minutes ago, Corona688 said:

 

what.

That a stock delta-V indicator exists in kerbaledu guarantees there will never be one in the vanilla game.  They can't even make it DLC.  It'd be against their own interests to compete with kerbaledu like that.

So, it's not going to happen.  Period.  Thread over.

Install KER, I guess.

So everyone who plays KSP on console and wonders: "Hey, I set up this maneuver node which has a fancy meter on the side reading 802.3m/s, but I have absolutely no clue if my craft can do it?" will just be advised to buy a PC and install KER, or else, strap a dozen more boosters on their rocket?

[foamyesque]

Stock really needs a deltaV indicator. It has for years. Last I heard it had been dismissed on the grounds that Squad wanted people to trial-and-error, but maybe it's changed?

[Corona688]

There's also less silly options, but yes -- putting a stock dV meter in vanilla KSP would be giving a big blatant finger to kspedu customers.

"Hi, the fancy features you paid for?  The educational exclusive stuff?  Turns out you really did buy the exact same product rebranded.  Hope that's okay."

They can't do it.  They've backed themselves into a corner.

[Red Iron Crown]

29 minutes ago, Corona688 said:

That a stock delta-V indicator exists in kerbaledu guarantees there will never be one in the vanilla game.  They can't even make it DLC.  It'd be against their own interests to compete with kerbaledu like that.

So, it's not going to happen.  Period.  Thread over.

Hardly. KerbalEdu is a lot more than just a delta-V indicator, and is marketed and licensed differently for institutional use. I don't see its existance as an impediment to a stock indicator being implemented.

[Corona688]

Fair enough, but the existence of such a thing means they're unlikely to re-do what they've already done, and unlikely to 'lift' content from an independent product.  It'd be uncomfortable legally and ethically in a bunch of ways, for much the same reason releasing previous versions is legally uncomfortable.  It's content they've already sold in other contexts.

That it exists at all is surprising, I thought HarvestR was deadset against it, but it makes sense in an educational product.

If they ever unify KSP and KSPedu, it could happen.

It might also become DLC, maybe a 'preview' add on to show what kspedu is like.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Corona688