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[WIP]D12 Aerotech - A B9 Aerospace Expansion (Beta1)


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There's two perfectly good SABRE engines (complete with intakes and precooler) in the B9 pack...and you can pretty much piece together the rest of the craft with existing B9 parts.

There is a community fix file that was included with the first alpha so the engines work well again, and I think there's another thread for that.

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Well, i downloaded the Swing Wing Test, only to find that the sweeping wings (F-14 style ones) generate no lift... and cant sweep, there is no button or action to sweep them from the deltawing position...

Edited by CrazyOdd
Being an idiot
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Did you set up the sweep as an action group in the SPH?

The FS plugin doesn't have contextual triggers on the part for this (another item for the laundry list). You either tell the .cfg to set for "auto" or you do it manually with an action group. If you only use it for take-off/landing, you can tie it to the landing gear group, otherwise use a numbered group. The wings do generate a decent amount of lift, its just FS lift code, meaning near zero lift at 0 degree AoA. If you notice in Snoj's one example of this, his sabre wings are set at a 1-5 degree angle to the body to get around this. All his other wings use the stock lift code for the main part, so this doesn't apply. You can also try making sure your ***-end sits lower than your nose so the wings are at a natural upward angle on take-off.

I'll experiment with angling the lift transform in Unity and see if that helps, though it creates funny angles on the lift arrow in the VAB.

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Here's what I have. I didn't update the configs, just played with the textures, so our versions match as far as behavior.

Setting it up - I defined a custom string to say "Toggle Swing Wing", but an FS bug ignores that and still calls it a leading edge. Set this to an action group. As you can see, lift center is just fine in my setup. I have no other lift surfaces on the craft.

swang_Wangsetup.png

Surprisingly, it took off just fine without the swing wings out.

swang_Wangfolded.png

swang_Wangopen.png

One thing to note, having the ailerons on the wing means that the aileron lift surface moves with the swing. This can put your average CoL forward of the CoM if you aren't careful (and cause some awesome aerobatics). This is the same issue they faced in reality when they were developing variable geometry. In my own models, I tied the main lift transform to a fixed point to avoid this partially, but the little added lift from the ailerons does move when the wing retracts/extends.

Do you happen to be using FAR? This might cause your lift issues.

Edited by PolecatEZ
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Setting it up - I defined a custom string to say "Toggle Swing Wing", but an FS bug ignores that and still calls it a leading edge. Set this to an action group. As you can see, lift center is just fine in my setup. I have no other lift surfaces on the craft.

One thing to note, having the ailerons on the wing means that the aileron lift surface moves with the swing.

Do you happen to be using FAR? This might cause your lift issues.

What do you mean with "defining a custom string"? Sorry, havent messed around with modding too much :)

Well, i cant even add ailerons onto the wings, it somehow just adds them to the base of the wing

and yes im using FAR.... damn...

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Paste this into the config and see if it helps anything:

MODULE

{

name = FARControllableSurface

b_2 = 4.8 //distance from wing root to tip; semi-span

MAC = 2.0 //Mean Aerodynamic Chord (Length front to back)

e = 0.9 //Oswald's Efficiency, 0-1, increases drag from lift

nonSideAttach = 0 //0 for canard-like / normal wing pieces, 1 for ctrlsurfaces attached to the back of other wing parts

TaperRatio = 0.44 //Ratio of tip chord to root chord generally < 1, must be > 0

MidChordSweep = 46.5 //How to change for swing wing?

maxdeflect = 20 //Default maximum deflection value; only used by FARControlableSurface

controlSurfacePivot = 1, 0, 0; //Local vector that obj_ctrlSrf pivots about; defaults to 1, 0, 0 (right)

ctrlSurfFrac = 0.11

}

I was hoping someone else would mess with the FAR stuff, as I honestly have very little idea of the nuances of a FAR config. Parsing through FS documentation several versions out of date and trying to match it to the source code is hard enough. Snoj has added a lot of toys since his last instruction manual, you just need to find them :)

------

Reading the FAR documentation, it looks like I'll need to re-label some things in Unity to get it to work, I don't see any support for relabeling, and also tie the lift surface back to the actual swing wing. Swing wing flying - not for noobs.

Edited by PolecatEZ
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Well, i copied the module into the cfg, but the wings still wont fold (i now have the option for action groups, but it doesnt change anything) more info tomorrow, i just had like 5m inutes to test your fix :)

i hope itll be fixed in the *final* release :D

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Paste this into the config and see if it helps anything:

MODULE

{

name = FARControllableSurface

b_2 = 4.8 //distance from wing root to tip; semi-span

MAC = 2.0 //Mean Aerodynamic Chord (Length front to back)

e = 0.9 //Oswald's Efficiency, 0-1, increases drag from lift

nonSideAttach = 0 //0 for canard-like / normal wing pieces, 1 for ctrlsurfaces attached to the back of other wing parts

TaperRatio = 0.44 //Ratio of tip chord to root chord generally < 1, must be > 0

MidChordSweep = 46.5 //How to change for swing wing?

maxdeflect = 20 //Default maximum deflection value; only used by FARControlableSurface

controlSurfacePivot = 1, 0, 0; //Local vector that obj_ctrlSrf pivots about; defaults to 1, 0, 0 (right)

ctrlSurfFrac = 0.11

}

I was hoping someone else would mess with the FAR stuff, as I honestly have very little idea of the nuances of a FAR config. Parsing through FS documentation several versions out of date and trying to match it to the source code is hard enough. Snoj has added a lot of toys since his last instruction manual, you just need to find them :)

------

Reading the FAR documentation, it looks like I'll need to re-label some things in Unity to get it to work, I don't see any support for relabeling, and also tie the lift surface back to the actual swing wing. Swing wing flying - not for noobs.

I've been having a rather spirited discussion with Ferram about the possibility of FAR-izing the Wing Rotor, over in the FAR thread.

A couple of things have become abundantly clear:

  • FAR can't do things like variable sweep, at all. If you attach a FAR module to a variable sweep wing it's going to have the same lift properties at all times, at best.
  • FAR can't handle sweep in the case where both left and right wings are part of the same part. It can do a straight wing that goes both ways, but not a swept one (because for sweep, it presumes that it's starting at one end and sweeping towards the other. It can't start in the center and sweep in both directions.)

Also: If you put a non-FAR lift component into a FAR installation, the CoL indicator gets screwed up. It'll show *only* the Non-FAR lift.

Also, FSliftSurface is set to turn itself off if FAR is installed, so that might be the source of the 'there's no lift waaaa' issue. Which has me wondering if the wing-rotor was even generating lift at ALL... or if it was just the king of all drag surfaces for nothing. :(

Edited by Tiron
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I was hoping someone else would mess with the FAR stuff, as I honestly have very little idea of the nuances of a FAR config. Parsing through FS documentation several versions out of date and trying to match it to the source code is hard enough. Snoj has added a lot of toys since his last instruction manual, you just need to find them :)

------

Reading the FAR documentation, it looks like I'll need to re-label some things in Unity to get it to work, I don't see any support for relabeling, and also tie the lift surface back to the actual swing wing. Swing wing flying - not for noobs.

I won't pretend to have followed the discussion here, but it looks like you are kicking some ass. If you have issues with missing or not updated documentation, let me know, and I'll add it to the fsdocs.

There are some 80-ish part modules/classes, and only a handful with documentation, so it has all been written based on the likelihood that people would want to mess with it.

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Finals are done, but starting next week I'm on a 3-week intensive research project - which means in reality I'll spend 3 hours making a poster with glitter glue and probably get an A. So, we'll see if this is a real coursework or Mickey Mouse...if the later I'll probably rapidly knock out a few things. Damn Snjo for releasing new stuff to play with, I already have about 10 good uses for his new meshSwitcher (now that I figured out what it actually does)...and some even involve cockpits (searchlight rack...or no searchlight rack...).

Anyways, I'll do a full release of wings real soon. I figured out the edge tapers are just too long. I'll bump cockpits up the priority scale, but they'll probably trickle out a bit at a time that way. If anyone is serious about helping, it would help a lot to do prop placement.

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Finals are done, but starting next week I'm on a 3-week intensive research project - which means in reality I'll spend 3 hours making a poster with glitter glue and probably get an A. So, we'll see if this is a real coursework or Mickey Mouse...if the later I'll probably rapidly knock out a few things. Damn Snjo for releasing new stuff to play with, I already have about 10 good uses for his new meshSwitcher (now that I figured out what it actually does)...and some even involve cockpits (searchlight rack...or no searchlight rack...).

Anyways, I'll do a full release of wings real soon. I figured out the edge tapers are just too long. I'll bump cockpits up the priority scale, but they'll probably trickle out a bit at a time that way. If anyone is serious about helping, it would help a lot to do prop placement.

did uhh anyone else get a really vivid dream where this was already released and ksp just became beautiful again... well even more beautiful than it already is i mean...

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The only reason I'm playing so much KSP is because of this and the Xover pack. (I shouldn't be - I'm also in the middle of exams and I'm starting to hate calculus:mad: ) Speaking of which, is this intended as a replacement for the Xover pack such as integration of the texture-switching fuel tanks etc. or is it completely separate?

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Its completely separate except for the community fix files. I honestly didn't think people were using the Xover Pack. As I go along with this one, Xover-type stuff is starting to creep in, like the use of some additional textures. FSmeshSwitch now can give us not just different textures on a fuel tank, but entirely different styles of fuel tank (within the same collider).

Anyways, downloaded Porkjets stuff last night to take a look and then promptly scrapped all my basic wings. He and I somehow settled on identical parameters (3.75 x 1.875 x 0.15 base), so mine would have been quite redundant. Wings are getting another re-design to Squad parameters (3.5-ish x 1.75-ish x 0.17), though I'll probably knock down the thickness to be compatible, and sharp tapered edges are getting beveled. meshSwitch also allows some additional features, like toggling heat shields on or off on the entire bottom of the wing.

I spent most of the night on cockpits though.

Mk1 replacement is re-done, still very boring but it looks decent.

Mk2 1.25m Tandem Inline has been re-done, looks a lot smoother.

Mk2 1.25m Single Inline wasn't touched yet...on the to-do for today.

Mk1 Tandem is looking great, internals were finished also.

Mk13 SBS cab wasn't touched, but does need some work on ladder/hatch placement.

Mk25 Attack chopper externals re-done. Even with smoothing groups it still has a triangle gash across one windshield I can't get rid of. Internals are close enough for government work.

Also started work on an A-7 style Mk1 cockpit with the gaping intake under it...looks vaguely like a Basking shark's head. I may need to do some custom texture work to enhance the effect.

The last 3 have custom internals that need prop placement and then I can push those out. They'll probably be pretty sparse, but anyone with Unity is free to open them back up and decorate them as they want.

Edited by PolecatEZ
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The only reason I'm playing so much KSP is because of this and the Xover pack. (I shouldn't be - I'm also in the middle of exams and I'm starting to hate calculus:mad: ) Speaking of which, is this intended as a replacement for the Xover pack such as integration of the texture-switching fuel tanks etc. or is it completely separate?

Xover pack? never heard of it, what is it like :o

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Xover pack? never heard of it, what is it like :o

The thread is here somewhere.

It did a few things with Firespitter and B9, namely a few B9 re-textures of Firespitter basic parts, as well as a giant "anti-wonk" module manager file that did a few things to clean up the B9 catalog...it deleted redundant parts and added texture switching so you could still have them, and modular fuel system was tweaked for KSPI and added to FS and B9 parts. Since I figured out how to Blender a bit, I kind of let it drop as remaking meshes using existing textures is far more space efficient than making new textures on existing UV maps for people to load up.

For some odd reason, the modular fuels mod isn't very popular, though its potential is amazing especially combined with Stretchy Tanks and/or FStextureSwitcher.

Edited by PolecatEZ
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Its completely separate except for the community fix files. I honestly didn't think people were using the Xover Pack. As I go along with this one, Xover-type stuff is starting to creep in, like the use of some additional textures. FSmeshSwitch now can give us not just different textures on a fuel tank, but entirely different styles of fuel tank (within the same collider).

I am anyway, I love it. I'm on a bit of spaceplane buzz at the moment with lots of B9 parts so the two packs are perfect for me. The FSmeshSwitch does sound really cool though - I can't wait!

Xover pack? never heard of it, what is it like :o

Here's the link: CrossOver Packs

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i like how people seem to hate the B9 pack itself but like the art style... (ok ok i know it's two different points but come on...) i mean without the B9 pack they might not of been the slick buildings we have now or the invetions of what we have today like this and other packs.

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