How much delta v is required to visit EVERY object in Kerbal system?

[TeeGee]

Hi everyone.

Just need a number.

How much delta v is required to visit every space object in the kerbal system. I've built a spacecraft with 12,400 ish delta v and was wondering where that could take me.

Ideally I would like to make it from LKO to a planet and back. I don't want to go solar system cruising in one launch, only from LKO and back. 1 trip each time.

[Javster]

Do you intend o refuel while in LKO?

[Cakeofruit]

you can lower the total dV on buiding a mothership and a lander.( total dV of the mothership cause u save some fuel by leting your mothership in orbit)

You can find map of dV here

you probably can't go to Eeloo

Edited May 6, 2014 by Cakeofruit

[Skorpychan]

you can lower the total dV on buiding a mothership and a lander.

You can find map of dV here

you probably can't go to Eeloo

No, the dV remains the same. It's the change in velocity required to do something. What changes is the required fuel.

[Kasuha]

That depends on what you consider a visit. If it is just passing through its SOI then you probably have way more than what's necessary. I guess it's possible below 3000 m/s dv from LKO with some gravity slingshots.

If you mean landing and planting flag on each planet, then you don't have enough even to visit Eve.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Kasuha

[LethalDose]

Hi everyone.

Just need a number.

How much delta v is required to visit every space object in the kerbal system. I've built a spacecraft with 12,400 ish delta v and was wondering where that could take me.

Ideally I would like to make it from LKO to a planet and back. I don't want to go solar system cruising in one launch, only from LKO and back. 1 trip each time.

12.4 km/s of dV from where? launch or LKO? that much dV might go one way to Moho from launch.

[Red Iron Crown]

12.4 km/s of dV from where? launch or LKO? that much dV might go one way to Moho from launch.

I've gotten to Moho for less than half that from LKO. 8-9km/s should be enough to get from launch to Moho, if you time the transfer right.

[cantab]

http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/w/images/7/73/KerbinDeltaVMap.png

Note the figures are generally towards the low end. Moho in particular can be much more expensive to reach in a poor window, and I prefer to have more like 4700 m/s for launching from LKO, gives a margin of error.

I'll give all my figures from LKO. For flybys Eeloo is the hardest in delta-V terms, but 3250 m/s should do it. I'd aim for like 4000 to flyby anywhere. That assumes direct transfers, you can do significantly better with gravity assists.

For entering orbit, Moho's going to be the toughest. 7000 m/s on a good day, but Moho's got a habit of catching people out, I'd go for nine or ten thousand to be on the safe side.

For landing, trying to build one lander for everywhere is a bit silly because there's such a huge range in what you need. But one lander for everywhere the Mun's size or smaller - so that's Gilly, Mun, Minmus, Ike, Dres, Bop, and Pol - is not unreasonable. That'll want about 1500 m/s in it. Might handle Duna too with some parachutes.

[TeeGee]

I have 12500 dv from LKO, I get my craft into orbit fully fueled and ready to go.

I could double that delta v if I wanted, but only if I absolutely need to. What I planed on doing was building a interplanetary transfer vehicle that never landed on any of the intended planets, only to reach them and establish orbit. The landing would be done by a separate shuttle unique for each planetary body I visited.

Edited May 5, 2014 by TeeGee

[TeeGee]

That depends on what you consider a visit. If it is just passing through its SOI then you probably have way more than what's necessary. I guess it's possible below 3000 m/s dv from LKO with some gravity slingshots.

If you mean landing and planting flag on each planet, then you don't have enough even to visit Eve.

I can't even make it to eve orbit and back (to LKO)?

[Red Iron Crown]

I can't even make it to eve orbit and back (to LKO)?

Eve orbit, yes. Eve surface, no. Eve is notoriously difficult to ascend from.

[Daddy Cecil]

He meant from LKO to Eve orbit to Eve's surface and back to Eve orbit

[Kasuha]

I can't even make it to eve orbit and back (to LKO)?

With the 3000 I did not mean braking into any orbit. Just "visiting", i.e. passing through the SOI and using gravity slingshots.

You need about 1100 m/s from LKO to Eve, and if you spend about 600 m/s in Eve low pass, you have acquired sufficient energy to visit all planets - it is just enough to pass by Moho, then slingshot around Eve to Dres/Duna flybys, followed by slingshot off Kerbin to Jool where you can slow down by Tylo or Laythe and pass around all its moons, then get ejected again towards Eeloo. If you're not stopping anywhere that initial impulse should be enough.

3000 m/s might be enough to get into Eve's orbit and back, but I'm not sure. It sure is enough to visit Gilly and return.

[TeeGee]

With the 3000 I did not mean braking into any orbit. Just "visiting", i.e. passing through the SOI and using gravity slingshots.

You need about 1100 m/s from LKO to Eve, and if you spend about 600 m/s in Eve low pass, you have acquired sufficient energy to visit all planets - it is just enough to pass by Moho, then slingshot around Eve to Dres/Duna flybys, followed by slingshot off Kerbin to Jool where you can slow down by Tylo or Laythe and pass around all its moons, then get ejected again towards Eeloo. If you're not stopping anywhere that initial impulse should be enough.

3000 m/s might be enough to get into Eve's orbit and back, but I'm not sure. It sure is enough to visit Gilly and return.

Ok so should I build a craft with closer to 20,000 delta v just to ensure that I have enough umph to get to every planet/moon from LKO and back in 1 trip?

I think I'm confusing people, I plan on going from LKO to planet/moon X (anywhere in the system), enter orbit, and leave orbit to return back to LKO. I will refuel in LKO then go to another planet etc.

BUT just out of curiosity, how much delta V would be required to see ALL of the planets at once from LKO in 1 round trip then return back to kerbin?

NO LANDING. Not yet.

[Red Iron Crown]

With the 3000 I did not mean braking into any orbit. Just "visiting", i.e. passing through the SOI and using gravity slingshots.

You need about 1100 m/s from LKO to Eve, and if you spend about 600 m/s in Eve low pass, you have acquired sufficient energy to visit all planets - it is just enough to pass by Moho, then slingshot around Eve to Dres/Duna flybys, followed by slingshot off Kerbin to Jool where you can slow down by Tylo or Laythe and pass around all its moons, then get ejected again towards Eeloo. If you're not stopping anywhere that initial impulse should be enough.

Have you ever attempted such a thing? I have trouble enough getting one slingshot to work properly, let alone the seven or eight in that mission profile.

[Kasuha]

Have you ever attempted such a thing? I have trouble enough getting one slingshot to work properly, let alone the seven or eight in that mission profile.

I can't say I have attempted that but I believe I have the territory mapped out.

First, I did the Extended vacation challenge which consisted of visiting (and landing on) Moho and Eeloo in one launch.

Then I did my SSTO to Laythe visit with quite limited dv and a lot of gravity slingshots.

And finally I did my <3000 m/s travel to Moho with the same SSTO.

With that I am confident it can be done. But of course I don't expect the mission to go from slingshot to slingshot, that's almost impossible IMO. What I do is set up each slingshot to send me to the place where I want to have the next intercept ... in a few orbits.

[LethalDose]

Ok so should I build a craft with closer to 20,000 delta v just to ensure that I have enough umph to get to every planet/moon from LKO and back in 1 trip?

I think I'm confusing people, I plan on going from LKO to planet/moon X (anywhere in the system), enter orbit, and leave orbit to return back to LKO. I will refuel in LKO then go to another planet etc.

Okay, then you're probably going to be okay with anything that can go from LKO to Moho and back, since Moho has the highest dV cost to reach. However, there are a few different ways to get to Moho, so you'd have to specify what approach you're using.

Also, you may need more than that if you were to visit all of Jool's moons in one trip. It should be fine if you were planning to make a separate trip for each. Again, there are conditions that would have to be clarified to give you anything resembling a useful answer.

BUT just out of curiosity, how much delta V would be required to see ALL of the planets at once from LKO in 1 round trip then return back to kerbin?

A lot.

[Kasuha]

Ok so should I build a craft with closer to 20,000 delta v just to ensure that I have enough umph to get to every planet/moon from LKO and back in 1 trip?

I think I'm confusing people, I plan on going from LKO to planet/moon X (anywhere in the system), enter orbit, and leave orbit to return back to LKO. I will refuel in LKO then go to another planet etc.

BUT just out of curiosity, how much delta V would be required to see ALL of the planets at once from LKO in 1 round trip then return back to kerbin?

NO LANDING. Not yet.

Assuming you're going to visit one body, enter its low orbit, then return to Kerbin to refuel, your ship is ok with quite some margin for error. For grand tour (entering low orbit of all bodies in one go without refueling) that would probably not suffice.

[TeeGee]

Assuming you're going to visit one body, enter its low orbit, then return to Kerbin to refuel, your ship is ok with quite some margin for error. For grand tour (entering low orbit of all bodies in one go without refueling) that would probably not suffice.

So 12, 000 delta v is enough to go to any planetary body in kerbal solar system and BACK to kerbin in 1 trip? Hmmm. Why is it when I look up other peoples craft, they have like 50 orange tanks with LV-N's sprinkled everywhere? People who have craft going to Eve are HUGE.

I guess the question I am asking is what is the MINIMUM delta v I need to complete the HIGHEST delta v mission (LKO to planet or moon and back to kerbin), including payload (landers).

20,000?

40,000?

[cantab]

I have 12500 dv from LKO, I get my craft into orbit fully fueled and ready to go.

I could double that delta v if I wanted, but only if I absolutely need to. What I planed on doing was building a interplanetary transfer vehicle that never landed on any of the intended planets, only to reach them and establish orbit. The landing would be done by a separate shuttle unique for each planetary body I visited.

12,500 m/s sounds like a good amount then. But there's a catch: That figure will drop when you're pushing a lander around. How much depends on the dry weight of your transfer stage and the weight of your landers. Really you'll need to check your transfer stage delta-V with a test payload that you think will cover most lander requirements (not Eve and possibly not Tylo). I'm not sure what the best weight is for that, I'm using 18 tons (one Rockomax 32 tank) but haven't built many landers. And of course you'll be lighter for the return trip (assuming you don't want to send the lander back to LKO) so it can get a bit tricky to figure the delta-V there.

[TheDarkStar]

I guess the question I am asking is what is the MINIMUM delta v I need to complete the HIGHEST delta v mission (LKO to planet or moon and back to kerbin), including payload (landers).

20,000?

40,000?

It's only about 15000 dV to Moho and back (including landing, too).

[Red Iron Crown]

So 12, 000 delta v is enough to go to any planetary body in kerbal solar system and BACK to kerbin in 1 trip? Hmmm. Why is it when I look up other peoples craft, they have like 50 orange tanks with LV-N's sprinkled everywhere? People who have craft going to Eve are HUGE.

Eve's ascent is about 12km/s from sea level, then you need to get all the mass of that lander into LKO and transferred to Eve; given the exponential nature of additional mass per unit delta-V, it adds up fast.

[TeeGee]

12,500 m/s sounds like a good amount then. But there's a catch: That figure will drop when you're pushing a lander around. How much depends on the dry weight of your transfer stage and the weight of your landers. Really you'll need to check your transfer stage delta-V with a test payload that you think will cover most lander requirements (not Eve and possibly not Tylo). I'm not sure what the best weight is for that, I'm using 18 tons (one Rockomax 32 tank) but haven't built many landers. And of course you'll be lighter for the return trip (assuming you don't want to send the lander back to LKO) so it can get a bit tricky to figure the delta-V there.

What I usually do is take my lander to the planet/moon and leave it there for future missions to use. All I need to do is rendevous with it and refuel it when I return.

[TeeGee]

Eve's ascent is about 12km/s from sea level, then you need to get all the mass of that lander into LKO and transferred to Eve; given the exponential nature of additional mass per unit delta-V, it adds up fast.

WHOA. The delta V just to get OFF eve is = to the interplanetary craft I've built!!

So what engine is optimal to get off of Eve? rockomax 48-s or the aerospikes?

[Red Iron Crown]

WHOA. The delta V just to get OFF eve is = to the interplanetary craft I've built!!

So what engine is optimal to get off of Eve? rockomax 48-s or the aerospikes?

It's worth your time to have a look at some delta-V maps, like the one here or any of the others linked on that page, I use this one.

I've seen Eve return vehicle that use aerospikes, 48-7Ss or both, depends what you want to do. If you haven't done much interplanetary travel and landing, I'd suggest something less challenging, like Duna or one of Jool's smaller moons, to get your feet wet before trying Eve.