cybutek

[1.3 & 1.2] KSP-AVC Add-on Version Checker Plugin 1.1.6.2 - MiniAVC - KSP-AVC Online (2016-10-13)

402 posts in this topic

42 minutes ago, DStaal said:

Don't use it myself, but I can see it as a tactic to help reduce support overhead.  People are less likely to complain about bugs in old versions if they're greeted by a reminder that they're using an old version every time they start up.  :wink:

yes, that worked out great for kopernicus :D

people just ignore the popup window and flood the thread with complaints that their game just broke

 

In my experience popups never helped, but maybe I was unlucky

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Sigma88 said:

yes, that worked out great for kopernicus :D

people just ignore the popup window and flood the thread with complaints that their game just broke

 

In my experience popups never helped, but maybe I was unlucky

I said 'less likely'.  I'm sure there were a few who noticed, and updated, and then didn't complain...  :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, DStaal said:

I said 'less likely'.  I'm sure there were a few who noticed, and updated, and then didn't complain...  :D

yes I get the point, but still for every 1 of those you will gain 10 that are annoyed by miniAVC :)

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Not sure if I'm sorry I started this debate because all I really wanted was to not be apprised of my known deficiencies every time I start a known old (deficient) copy of the game with known old (deficient) mods, but I do find it particularly interesting that a mod had to be written by to solve the perceived problems with another, whether the author agrees with the perception or not.

There is no opting out for either Mini AVC or AVC itself, insofar as I can see. I assume that bypasses the old "phoning home" rule by not recording anything? Is that still in effect anyway?

IMO a fantastic way to handle this issue is for AVC or Mini AVC to hide itself unless the user pushes a button, perhaps up where the mod list radio button is. An alert could even turn some text red up there if mods are out of date, for instance. The button goes away automatically like the mod list goes away. This pushes it more into the realm of CKAN where updating and participation is voluntary rather than nagging. The user still gets the benefits of AVC without wanting to remove it.

Because I do find AVC useful. Just not every time I load the game.

Edited by regex
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, regex said:

IMO a fantastic way to handle this issue is for AVC or Mini AVC to hide itself unless the user pushes a button, perhaps up where the mod list radio button is. An alert could even turn some text red up there if mods are out of date, for instance. The button goes away automatically like the mod list goes away. This pushes it more into the realm of CKAN where updating and participation is voluntary rather than nagging. The user still gets the benefits of AVC without wanting to remove it.

I don't think adding that would be a detriment to the mod, but I think that for AVC that wouldn't make much sense, you would never use the feature because you would just not install the mod

as for miniAVC, I guess it depends on your playing style...

 

my ksp folder has tons of different GameData folders, because I constantly change the mods setup of my installs.

this means that every time I create a new GameData I would be asked to optout

if you have only one GameData and don't ever change it, then the opt out is fine

I think the problem here is intrinsic in how miniavc works. if you remove the concept of "opt out" then all the discussion becomes moot, because only those who opt in ( = install KSPAVC) will get the notifications

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

14 minutes ago, regex said:

There is no opting out for either Mini AVC or AVC itself, insofar as I can see.

Because I do find AVC useful. Just not every time I load the game.

Well, I think as far as AVC itself goes, opting out would be NOT installing it in the 1st place? :P ... lol
But yes, I can see where you might want to turn it on/off at different times, within the same game install... Maybe that should be added if not already in the Settings...

As to MiniAVC, thats a bit different... I think for this discussion, AVC itself, and MiniAVC should be considered two different things, though they may use the same "mod engine" and means of version checking... And, yeah, MiniAVC could definately use some refactoring, or opt-out ability, rather than insidiously rearing its head for EVERY time you install a mod that has it...
plus, even though we now have 64bit KSP with no RAM ceiling, do we really need a hundred identical copies of MiniAVC and its files, scattered through-out the GameData folder....??

Maybe if MiniAVC was packaged with each mod, in its OWN "MiniAVC" folder along SIDE whatever mods' folder, that would eliminate much of the "weed pulling", and also it would just overwrite with each different mod install, and again, if there was a settings config or something created the first time it ran, then successive "installs" of it would be in ONE folder, and able to "read" the file, knowing that an opt-out was selected, and you would never hear from it again... ???

Edited by Stone Blue
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

7 minutes ago, Sigma88 said:

I don't think adding that would be a detriment to the mod, but I think that for AVC that wouldn't make much sense, you would never use the feature because you would just not install the mod

If AVC does what it does now by getting rid of the, frankly, odious Mini AVC notifications while also hiding its own notification unless I want it brought up then I would very much want to install it. As I said, I find AVC useful, just not every time I load up KSP. That would put it into the same realm as CKAN, a voluntary updater.

Quote

As to MiniAVC, thats a bit different... I think for this discussion, AVC itself, and MiniAVC should be considered two different things, though they may use the same "mod engine" and means of version checking... And, yeah, MiniAVC could definately use some refactoring, or opt-out ability, rather than insidiously rearing its head for EVERY time you install a mod that has it...

And that's why I tried AVC in the first place, I thought I could be hassled less by the original mod author. I was, in fact, hassled less, but I am still hassled. But if I don't want to be hassled at all I need to turn to another mod author. How does that work?

Edited by regex
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, regex said:

If AVC does what it does now by getting rid of the, frankly, odious Mini AVC notifications while also hiding its own notification unless I want it brought up then I would very much want to install it. As I said, I find AVC useful, just not every time I load up KSP. That would put it into the same realm as CKAN, a voluntary updater.

Excellent point... I've always thought of CKAN as doing its "auto-updating" stuff in the background for those who dont know how, or want to take the time to control their installs (NOT a knock against CKAN, so lets not go "there"... lol)...
And AVC as an alternative for those who DO their own manual installs for whatever reason... So yeah, i would think AVC SHOULD have the ability to "manually" control whether/when it "works"...

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd like to make it known that I'm watching the discussion unfold. The best ideas of which are feasible within my time restrictions have a good chance being implemented. :wink: 

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I'm not fond of the bloat of having a bunch of copies of the mini-version stuck in every mod folder (eats into disk space which in turn eats into space/bandwidth needed for backups, etc.), I do like having the the mod. It is a much better answer to the hassle of keeping a lot of mods updated then ckan. I like the idea behind ckan, but it falls flat on it's face. Steam is much a much better system for keeping mods updated, but requires both game and mod be designed to work with it. Then again, if something like ckan was built into the core game and modding functonality was designed around it, then it might work better too.

I liked Debian's apt-get system at first, but trying to use it with a slim VDR install turned into a mess because you need part of a program to make something work, but debain says, oh, that program then needs all this to fully work when you don't need it to fully work. Then all those sub programs needed more and so on. And what should have been a simple bit of extra code for some function, turns into a massive extra install.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, cybutek said:

I'd like to make it known that I'm watching the discussion unfold. The best ideas of which are feasible within my time restrictions have a good chance being implemented. :wink: 

From what I've read, having the full version have a 'don't check' or 'only check when I ask' setting might be a good idea.  It would allow people to override and quiet the mini's screens.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

So far my implementation list goes:

MiniAVC
Ability to ignore specific alerts forever that matches the combined local+remote version files used to display them. This is so that if one of the version files change, the update/conflict message will be re-shown with the new information (this can then be re-ignored until something else changes again).

KSP-AVC
A "silent mode" toggle button next to the drop-down in the top left which'll suppress the issue monitor window from being displayed. KSP-AVC already overrides MiniAVC, so this will essentially silence all AVC notifications from KSP-AVC and MiniAVC.

Edited by cybutek
6 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

@cybutek Any thought on my idea of maybe re-organizing the folder structure for MiniAVC, as I suggested above?

It might be a dramatic change, and wouldnt cover old release packages of mods with it, but might make things better going forward...And now, at the beginning of a major KSP update, while the majority of mods are updating, might be a good time to do it... (if possible)

Again, any way to have the MiniAVC files in their own /GameData/MiniAVC folder, to be packaged with mods, so yould have:  /GameData/MiniAVC along with /GameData/<mods' folder>, packaged up by mod devs? Rather than having the MiniAVC files packaged directly into the mods' "plugin" folder?
Then, if MiniAVC was able to create a settings.cfg or something, on the first instance of running in someone's install, that would include an "opt-out", so any subsequent "reinstalls" of MiniAVC from another mod that packaged it, the settings file could be read, and the optout seen, and thus keep MiniAVC from running AT ALL, until changed by user input?

That seems it would keep people who do NOT use AVC, and do NOT want the benefits of MiniAVC, from hating on MiniAVC.... I'm sure those people probably give that feedback to the devs who package MiniAVC, and it might convince devs from dropping/not including MiniAVC support, at all...??

i mean, if Malah's ZeroMiniAVC can work, couldnt its basic premise be built-into MiniAVC itself?
 

Edited by Stone Blue
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Statement: AVC is awesome. It's the first mod I install.

Question:  Does it tell me if new versions of a mod are available even if I'm running an older, compatible version?

For example, I'm running 1.2.2 because I didn't feel like waiting for my three dozen mods to be updated...but will AVC keep track of which ones are updated for me? Or will does it only check if the mods I have are current for 1.2.2?

 

-Jn-

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

6 minutes ago, JoeNapalm said:

Statement: AVC is awesome. It's the first mod I install.

Question:  Does it tell me if new versions of a mod are available even if I'm running an older, compatible version?

For example, I'm running 1.2.2 because I didn't feel like waiting for my three dozen mods to be updated...but will AVC keep track of which ones are updated for me? Or will does it only check if the mods I have are current for 1.2.2?

Hmmm... seems that might be a good feature to add, if not already included...

Have user-selectable choice, for it to check for updates for ONLY the installed version of KSP, and a choice to ALSO check for updates for newer versions of KSP...
That way, it might help with people who dont update to newer versions of KSP, until most of their fav mods are updated to that version...

Once their list of installed/fav mods show updated to the new version of KSP, then user's could decide/know its OK to update to the newer version of KSP...??

Make sense?

Edited by Stone Blue
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the idea of relegating miniAVC to it's own folder,

it is definitely the option I like the best of all the ones I have read

 

making KSP-AVC notify users only if the newes version available is compatible with their KSP version sounds like a very good idea as well

I never noticed if it already does this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Sigma88 said:

making KSP-AVC notify users only if the newes version available is compatible with their KSP version sounds like a very good idea as well

I never noticed if it already does this

I *think* it does this.

I do like the idea of some listing that can show you 'mods you currently have installed that are updated for newer versions of KSP'.  It'd be a major headache saver around KSP updates.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, DStaal said:

I *think* it does this.

I do like the idea of some listing that can show you 'mods you currently have installed that are updated for newer versions of KSP'.  It'd be a major headache saver around KSP updates.

I guess it could be possible to show "current" and "latest", on the right side, where the version numbers are

instead of showing yellow version number, you could show 2 version numbers,

one green under "current" (to show that the current install is compatible with the current KSP used)

and one blue (or other color) under "latest" (to show that the latest version of the mod is compatible with the latest version of ksp)

 

or you could even keep the one version number like now, but change the color coding:

- red: current version of the mod is not compatible with the installed version of ksp

- yellow: current version of the mod is compatible with the installed version of ksp, but the latest version available is newer and is compatible with the installed version of ksp

- green: the current version of the mod is the latest available, and it is compatible with the installed version of ksp

- blue: the current version of the mod is compatible with the installed version of ksp, the latest version of the mod is compatible with the latest version of ksp (and the installed version of ksp is not the latest)

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, cybutek said:

KSP-AVC
A "silent mode" toggle button next to the drop-down in the top left which'll suppress the issue monitor window from being displayed. KSP-AVC already overrides MiniAVC, so this will essentially silence all AVC notifications from KSP-AVC and MiniAVC.

This is a great idea for my use case but I would also ask that I be allowed to uncheck "silent" and have the monitor window instantly displayed (if it needs to be) so that I'm not unchecking and then reloading the game or something. That retains the usefulness of AVC.

Thanks for considering the suggestions!

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

hi,

is there a known reason some mod-folder beginning with "lower letters" (000. a, b, c) cause multiple checks for all mods?

 

i.e. "communitytechtree" , 000_Toolbar" and "000_USItools" caused this for me, until i changed them to Z_...... - now its just 1 check / popup per outdated mod

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Multiple AVC warnings each time KSP is launched. Is this a know issue? I get about three of the same version update warnings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Speadge said:

hi,

is there a known reason some mod-folder beginning with "lower letters" (000. a, b, c) cause multiple checks for all mods?

 

i.e. "communitytechtree" , 000_Toolbar" and "000_USItools" caused this for me, until i changed them to Z_...... - now its just 1 check / popup per outdated mod

File viewer alpha sorts so when you look in the GameData folder, those will always be the first ones.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Vorg said:

File viewer alpha sorts so when you look in the GameData folder, those will always be the first ones.

that doesnt even come close to an answer to the basic question about additional add-on-checks from the mini-AVC plugin located in those folders.

I get multiple pop-ups about one and the same outdated mods as long as the named add-ons have a mini-AVC dll in their folder - or i rename those folders to Z_~

Edited by Speadge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

@cybutek  Your suggested 'blurb' and Readme needs to be modified to bring it up to date with the rules altered in March.  The rule is no longer 5.5 for starters, it's 6. 

Also, according to Rule 3 we must now include your license, name, version, and link in the download location and download.  Your blurb only provides the link.  Also, how would you prefer us to provide the remaining information in our download (other than license).  We could include the Readme, which has all that information but it might be a bit overkill.  Perhaps you could provided another AVC/MiniAVC "info" file to include in our projects.

Finally, since we have to include it, it would save us 30 seconds of our lives every update if you could name your file something like MiniAVC-License.txt so we can just drag and drop without renaming. (Not the end of the world but would be helpful)

 

EDIT: So here is what I have done in my project for the time being.  I have a Licenses folder that is copied to my output.  In that contains the License for my project as well as MiniAVC and Toolbar,  I created a text file for MiniAVC and Toolbar (ModName-Info.txt) which are formatted as this:

Quote

MiniAVC
Authors: Cybutek
Version: 1.0.3.3
Website: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/72169-13-12

I think that satisfies the new rules of inclusion in the project, but if you would prefer something different, just let us know.  Now I just have to figure out how to add this to my mod thread.

Edited by Alshain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would it be possible to add an interface element such that if updates are found, I could cancel the game loading? Bit annoying getting the notification that one of the mods can be updated, and have to wait for the entire game load process so I can exit and do it all over again once updated.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now