DMagic

[1.7.3] SCANsat [v18.13] -- Real Scanning, Real Science, at Warp Speed! [August 21, 2019]

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No it most definitely is not! (IMHO). Haven't played Kethane, so can't comment on that, but SCANSat is one of the few mods to actually give a use to satellite probes, and provides a great start-game when exploring a new body. The mid-game is the detail-scanning, and the end-game is the actual resource gathering (whether it's ISRU, science from different biomes, or landing at anomalies). It was an absolutely brilliant game-progression in combination with Karbonite and taught a lot about setting up scanning orbits which are both efficient as well as covering the planet.

With the stock scanning mechanic, there is no start-game. Just attach the scanner to your mission pod, polar orbit, BANG, dunnit, now straight off and perform the detail scans on the same mission, possibly even landing and starting to mine, all in one go.

With a SCANSat-like mechanic, you'd FIRST send a probe off to scan your target, then while it's doing that, design, build, and launch your detail-scanner/mining-rig/science-lander missions. By the time you get the actual mission launched and on it's way to the destination, your low-res scan is done. And for the people that just want to send a single mission, time-warp completes the scans in a couple of minutes anyway.

Sorry, RD, but some people would prefer not to have the Insta-scan, no matter how you justify it. Not saying it's a bad solution, but it's not for everyone, and it would be awesome if modders could override it.

Sure I'm on the same side, so much that I always used one scanning add-on or another all of my KSP life, and I look forward to have SCANsat being compatible with KSP 1.0. I hope SCANsat will continue to provide what realistically has to be expected out of scanning a planetary body, and sure I will avoid to use the stock scanners for anything SCANsat can do better (IMO).

But while "realism" is my way of playing KSP, I totally accept other players may not be interested in the same mechanic, and instead will be plenty happy with "instascanning" a whole body (with the M700 orbital survey scanner, as the other stock scanners only show what is in range/contact). While I (and others) can easily accept to play KSP modded to have the features we like, most players still like to play with only what stock KSP provides, and in that view, the new survey mechanics are a huge step forward.

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Wow...no one is seeing it....

You dont just attach one scanner and BINGBANGBOOM your done scanning....for you have only done 1/3 the scanning.

Umm, yes, we realize there's more to it than the high-level InstaScan. But regardless, we'd still like the high-level scan to be more SCANsat-like than the current stock behaviour..

Having the more detailed local scans is great, and I'm not advocating to get rid of those at all.

kinda bums me out not everyone is enjoying it as much as me =(

Uh, sorry?

Not everybody enjoys the game in the same ways. No one way is necessarily "better", just different. As long as the stock behaviour can be modded, it's all good.

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That is crazy and a little shocking to me....would think with the amount changed for 1.0 this would be totally inoperable without an update. Just out of curiosity did either of you look for errors being generated while testing? How bad is it spamming the log? A rather durable bit of code ya got there!

Can NOT however agree with the Commish'....I got to have the big map! =P

Admittely, I never peeked at the log... you'll have to do it yourself. :sealed:

And to each his/her own, I guess. I personally like Big Map due to its' details, but it just lags too much to the point that I almost always use Small Map.

One think I didn't like about the new resource scanning system. I don't like the instascan. I can understand it took too long to scan planets when requiring it to do the orbits. But seems to me that that could have been solved by just using a wider scan beam to do it in fewer orbits. Now it makes no sense to use a polar orbit when it can instantly scan the whole planet from any point in it's orbit.

Actually, you need to be at a 100% polar orbit for the scanner to work. Any less than 100% and it won't even activate. I didn't like this feature, RoverDude. :(

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Actually, you need to be at a 100% polar orbit for the scanner to work. Any less than 100% and it won't even activate. I didn't like this feature, RoverDude. :(

Incorrect, it has about 10 degrees of tolerance either way.

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The tentative plan I have for handling resources is this:

Version 12 will have a few options for how resources are scanned and displayed, along with all of the updates in version 11: the zoom map, additional color options, external config file, waypoint locations and MechJeb integration.

Default Mode:

This mode will follow stock scanning behavior, no SCANsat-style scanning will be required to display resources on the map. When you scan a planet with the Survey Scanner the SCANsat coverage maps will update and allow you to overlay resource data on the big map.

As far as I can tell the Survey Scanner doesn't actually transmit science like everything else does, there is no ScienceSubject and so I assume the onScienceReceived event doesn't get fired, which means I'll probably just have to keep checking if the current planet is scanned. But either way, updating the map to show resources will be simple.

There will also still be the option to disable the biome lock (enabled by default), meaning that anyone who really hates scanning can just skip ahead and have accurate maps right away. Otherwise the resource overlays will work like they did under Regolith, giving minimum, then average, then accurate values based on surface scans.

The primary difference will be in the availability of the zoom map that isn't tied to the narrow-band scanner, and isn't limited to your current location. Another option here might be to prevent zoom map resource overlays unless you have a narrow-band scanner onboard (this is simple to implement), that could maintain the usefulness of that part.

SCANsat Mode:

For version 12 this will work much like the old SCANsat resource scanning. You will have to setup your orbit and wait until you finish actually scanning the surface to be able to display the information on the big map. Thanks to the new animation module this should be a little bit more coherent than before, where you could start scanning while a part was still retracted, but otherwise resource scanners should work just like regular SCANsat sensors. It will also required Module Manager (or manually editing part configs) to add the required modules to the scanner.

This will have the same options for biome unlocks and zoom map availability as the default mode. The only difference is that the resource coverage map won't update instantly.

If you want to avoid the instant orbital scanning you'll just have to exercise self-control in activating the map overlay.

Future Mode:

Moving on to version 13 and 14 modes; what I want to do is allow for the disabling of the stock scanner (basically just prevent the scanning event from showing up) and replacing it with SCANsat-style scanning. This would prevent any kind of instant scanning and would allow me to generate the map overlay textures myself so that they would match the big map overlay (planetary overlays will be lower resolution and simpler to generate, making them much faster than the big map; also, the same can be done with biome maps, replacing the debug menu overlays).

Generating the overlay texture is simple, getting it to match the stock style overlays might not be so simple, but something similar to the blob-style overlay should at least be possible. I would also like to integrate this with the Knowledge Base menu in the map view, though I'm not sure if that's possible.

In the end there should be a range of possibilities, from making things easier than stock, bypassing the requirement for gound-truthing and narrow-band scanners, to replacing the stock instant scan and requiring real orbital surveys, combined with ground-truthing and the narrow-band scanner needed for the zoom map.

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Here was I wondering if Dmagic was doing it magic when I see this post update. Cheers!!!

I definetely like Scansat mode better. First, because its not only about resources, but also terrain, biome and etc, giving a nice progression and purpose for smallish probes.

Secondly to also give a time progression and additional science rewards for the game.

I'll patiently wait for the compatibility update and future mode when its due.

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Awesome work dmagic can't wait for that. I like your system way more than stock.

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So to Roverdude, The second level scanner, that needs to be over a spot?, can it be put on a polar orbit sat to map the planet and have the data retained?

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Will there be anyway to use the new SCANsat for terrain mapping and still use the stock resource mapping mechanics?? Or no matter what SCANsat will undo the stock scanning?

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Update?

I'm pretty sure the last page or so are full of updates on this mod (assuming you mean 1.0 compatibility).

I've not even experienced the current "insta-scan" yet --- still having fun with planes --- but it strikes me that the impression of scanning instantly seems jarring since other things like science transmission (and resource harvesting?) take time. While a full scansat sweep would be hyper-detailed and "correct", something simpler like a long progress count once the sat was in the correct orbit could be fine and still provide *some* waiting.

But, I've not done it yet, so I have no idea what I'm talking about. ;)

The proposed ideas for ScanSat going forward sound like a fair way to ignore / compromise with stock.

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I'm pretty sure the last page or so are full of updates on this mod (assuming you mean 1.0 compatibility).

I've not even experienced the current "insta-scan" yet --- still having fun with planes --- but it strikes me that the impression of scanning instantly seems jarring since other things like science transmission (and resource harvesting?) take time. While a full scansat sweep would be hyper-detailed and "correct", something simpler like a long progress count once the sat was in the correct orbit could be fine and still provide *some* waiting.

But, I've not done it yet, so I have no idea what I'm talking about. ;)

The proposed ideas for ScanSat going forward sound like a fair way to ignore / compromise with stock.

But the insta-scan part in stock is only 1/3 of total scanning process...

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The tentative plan I have for handling resources is this:

Thanks for a preview of your plans, DMagic, very much looking forward to seeing the next version(s) of SCANsat! This has been a "must-have" mod for me as it adds so much to the early exploration of the game universe.

Specifically I'm excited about your "Future Mode" plans, replacing the stock resource overlay with the slowly-revealing SCANsat one. You write that you will have to suppress the stock display and generate your own overlays, so presumably the stock resource overlay cannot be modded to just display partial data, but retain the rest of their functionality?

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Future Mode:

Moving on to version 13 and 14 modes; what I want to do is allow for the disabling of the stock scanner (basically just prevent the scanning event from showing up) and replacing it with SCANsat-style scanning. This would prevent any kind of instant scanning and would allow me to generate the map overlay textures myself so that they would match the big map overlay[...]

But isn't that easy when you have already it in scansat ?

you just need modulemanager to overwrite / delete the default properties in the stock scanner and replace it with yours. well to change that ingame might be a bit more difficult ... but still if you made your scanner so that it can work like the stock one and be able to activate this ingame ... the just overwrite the stock properties so it has yours..

MODULE
{
name = ModuleOrbitalSurveyor
ScanTime = 5
SciBonus = 10
}

MODULE
{
name = ModuleOrbitalScanner
CheckForLock = true
}

or

MODULE
{
name = ModuleResourceScanner
MaxAbundanceAltitude = 500000
RequiresUnlock = true
ScannerType = 0
ResourceName = Ore
}

Edited by Bizz Keryear

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We all hold our fingers (and toes) crossed :) SCANSat is an essential part of all my careers.

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We all hold our fingers (and toes) crossed :) SCANSat is an essential part of all my careers.

Definitely. No career mode game here until SCANSat and a couple more are released.

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SCANsat + RT is my lifeblood in KSP.

I am a simmering pot of expectation and eagerness (lobster not included).

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Apparently, Big Map works if you don't toggle orbits to show up. If you do, you're boned and permanently broke it, as it will cause all buttons to disappear and nothing show up on the map itself. You can't revert it because, as stated, there are no buttons to hide orbits, and there is no config file for you to manually shut off orbit mode. (Hopefully DMagic can easily make one for future reference)

So, if you broke Big Map(as I foolishly did and learned the hard way), you can kiss MULTI and BTDT scans bye-bye as they don't show up on the still-functioning Small Map. Anything besides this nasty bug works A-OK, though.

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Apparently, Big Map works if you don't toggle orbits to show up. If you do, you're boned and permanently broke it, as it will cause all buttons to disappear and nothing show up on the map itself. You can't revert it because, as stated, there are no buttons to hide orbits, and there is no config file for you to manually shut off orbit mode. (Hopefully DMagic can easily make one for future reference)

Orbits can be turned off by changing a value in the persistence file.


map_orbit = False

have you guys tried the dev build ? (v 11?)

The [thread=96859]dev build[/thread] has been updated for KSP 1.0.2.

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But can't there be a reasonable middle ground? Like, what if instead of insta-scanning the entire planet, you only insta-scan the parts that are immediately visible? That could be as much as half of an entire planet, which would require two or three scans at most to get all of the information that you could want out of the big scanner. It isn't as efficient as insta-scanning the entire planet, but it is more immersion and involves the player more.

I'd like the 'insta-scanner' to actually be a wide scanning low rez detector that can scan something like a 20 degree arc at a low resolution with a minimum height for operation. Then you could scan very large areas very quickly and get a blocky idea of major deposits.

Myself I'm usually only interested in equatorial deposits and my scanner is usually fixed to the craft that does the mining so a wide area scan would be nice but having to be above 80 degrees to do so?

Not so much.

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Orbits can be turned off by changing a value in the persistence file.


map_orbit = False

The [thread=96859]dev build[/thread] has been updated for KSP 1.0.2.

Okay, I'll check that out then.

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