Stockalike RF Engine Configs v3.2.6 [01/20/19][RF v12]

[Raptor831]

Typo, typo, friggin' typos! Yeah, NathanKell, that typo has been there for a long time. Not sure if it was in the original XLS I used or if I just copied it into my app wrong.

I updated the template in my app, but I'm still going to have to copy/paste everything into place. I've been holding off on some updates that would require rebuilding every engine (since find/replace is so much easier). So, I may just switch these over into the new variables anyway. Can I define them within CONFIG nodes, just like the old ModuleEngineIgnitor nodes?

@Svm420 The RCS should still be giving you differing thrust based on the propellants. It's still set up in the configs, so you should be able to see how much thrust you'd get with each. Are you getting issues with all of them or just some?

Also, I'm hoping to add a "default mixture ratio" somewhere in the app, along with some other sensible defaults to be filled out on a button click. That was on the roadmap, though it was a "nice to have but not needed" part.

Edited July 5, 2015 by Raptor831
Svm420 ninja'd me...

[NathanKell]

As it happens, there's a bug in the RF I just released where the ignitions isn't properly tech-level-ized if set with the new syntax. I'll fix that, but for now keep using ModuleEngineIgnitor nodes if you want that feature.

[allenby]

Still haven't had any luck trying to get the ullage/ignition to work. However, I noticed a consistent error in the log that might shed some light on the issue:

[LOG 17:21:37.557] PartLoader: Part 'Squad/Parts/Engine/liquidEngine24-77/liquidEngine24-77/smallRadialEngine' has no database record. Creating.

[LOG 17:21:37.577] DragCubeSystem: Creating drag cubes for part 'smallRadialEngine'

[LOG 17:21:37.622] PartLoader: Compiling Part 'Squad/Parts/Engine/liquidEngine48-7S/liquidEngine48-7S/liquidEngineMini'

[ERR 17:21:37.647] Cannot find a PartModule of typename 'ModuleEngineIgnitor'

Does this mean that the legacy EngineIgnitor cfg isn't being recognized? This is with a clean test install with just RealFuels and its required mods. Has anyone else been having this issue?

[Raptor831]

Still haven't had any luck trying to get the ullage/ignition to work. However, I noticed a consistent error in the log that might shed some light on the issue:

[LOG 17:21:37.557] PartLoader: Part 'Squad/Parts/Engine/liquidEngine24-77/liquidEngine24-77/smallRadialEngine' has no database record. Creating.

[LOG 17:21:37.577] DragCubeSystem: Creating drag cubes for part 'smallRadialEngine'

[LOG 17:21:37.622] PartLoader: Compiling Part 'Squad/Parts/Engine/liquidEngine48-7S/liquidEngine48-7S/liquidEngineMini'

[ERR 17:21:37.647] Cannot find a PartModule of typename 'ModuleEngineIgnitor'

Does this mean that the legacy EngineIgnitor cfg isn't being recognized? This is with a clean test install with just RealFuels and its required mods. Has anyone else been having this issue?

Haven't had a chance to dig into this stuff yet, but that error would only imply that the 48-7S doesn't have ullage simulation. Is that on all engines, or just the one? Also, are you using the latest release of Stockalike, or are you grabbing the latest dev one from the repo?

[NathanKell]

That message is expected, since you don't have ModuleEngineIgnitor installed, since RF does it itself now.

Pastebin a patch for an engine, would you? And make sure you're on RF 10.4.4.

[allenby]

@Raptor831

Happens with all engines, but it doesn't look like it's anything to worry about, based on what Nathan just mentioned.

I have tried to edit both the release version of Stockalike and the recent dev version (just the Squad engines).

@NathanKell

Makes sense. I'm fairly new to these mods (and KSP modding in general) and never used legacy EI, so I'm making quite a few assumptions as I go along.

Here is an example of an engine edit I've tried. I tried to follow the directions mentioned above, but maybe something got messed up.

[NathanKell]

Huh. That _should_ work. I'll try it tomorrow.

[Raptor831]

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm doing to change the templates in the next update. If that doesn't work, I'm gonna need to re-do my updates over again.

[Tellion]

Raptor, while writing stockalike configs for the latest NF Spacecraft, I noticed that it adds two tanks that have LF, Oxidizer and Monopropellant - the Fuel_Conversions.cfg does not catch that fully. As sending a pull request to RealFuels just for this does not seem warranted to me, is it possible to modify it in such a way that it could deal with a case like this, or would you rather have players use custom patches to handle it?

Another thing I wanted to ask you is whether you think that configs for NFP engines should be integrated in RFStockalike. We talked about this way back in 2014, but many things have changed since. NFP and RF both rely on the CRP now, Argon and LH2 using engines are fine by default - Xenon using engines do, however, get messed up by RF adjusting Xenon's density. Including a quick fix for those engines here would enable players to use NFP engines out of the box.

[Raptor831]

Raptor, while writing stockalike configs for the latest NF Spacecraft, I noticed that it adds two tanks that have LF, Oxidizer and Monopropellant - the Fuel_Conversions.cfg does not catch that fully. As sending a pull request to RealFuels just for this does not seem warranted to me, is it possible to modify it in such a way that it could deal with a case like this, or would you rather have players use custom patches to handle it?

Another thing I wanted to ask you is whether you think that configs for NFP engines should be integrated in RFStockalike. We talked about this way back in 2014, but many things have changed since. NFP and RF both rely on the CRP now, Argon and LH2 using engines are fine by default - Xenon using engines do, however, get messed up by RF adjusting Xenon's density. Including a quick fix for those engines here would enable players to use NFP engines out of the box.

The only place I touch fuel tanks is with the Fuel_Conversions.cfg. I keep toying with the idea to remove that completely, because it always seems to break on these tiny exceptions. I've sent pull requests to RF for stuff like that; as far as I know, NathanKell appreciates it because he obviously can't keep up with all these tanks.

Ok, enough of that. In any case, there was a bug in how the "service module" tank catcher was working. Made two tanks instead of just one. Fixed it, and it's on the repo now. Don't think you can just download it, but replace the contents of Fuel_Conversions.cfg with what's here: https://github.com/Raptor831/RFStockalike/blob/master/GameData/RealFuels/Fuel_Conversions.cfg

As for NFP engines, yes, please include them. I'm just completely lost as to what the configs should be for the electric engines. If it's just density, we can add a multiplier to the engines. But if we want to mess with the Isp and mass and thrust, we can make a new config (which is what I'd do if I knew what the heck I was doing with those engines!).

[allenby]

Has anyone playing with the Stockalike configs managed to get the ullage/ignition to work? Can anyone who has tried the suggested edit confirm whether it works for them or not?

[Svm420]

Has anyone playing with the Stockalike configs managed to get the ullage/ignition to work? Can anyone who has tried the suggested edit confirm whether it works for them or not?

Yep work beautifully. Though you'll want to remove it from srbs or at least turn off ullage for them.

[allenby]

Fiiiinally figured it out. I was missing @name = ModuleEnginesRF.

[Tellion]

The only place I touch fuel tanks is with the Fuel_Conversions.cfg. I keep toying with the idea to remove that completely, because it always seems to break on these tiny exceptions. I've sent pull requests to RF for stuff like that; as far as I know, NathanKell appreciates it because he obviously can't keep up with all these tanks.

...

As for NFP engines, yes, please include them. I'm just completely lost as to what the configs should be for the electric engines. If it's just density, we can add a multiplier to the engines. But if we want to mess with the Isp and mass and thrust, we can make a new config (which is what I'd do if I knew what the heck I was doing with those engines!).

Alright, will cook up a satisfactory MM patch for those tanks and PR to RealFuels. So much to do with regards to tanks and NF* anyways, and no idea how to do it properly ._.

Yeah, it is just density. Will test what I have and PR to you later today. I think Isp is good as it is, but you have a good point about masses being debatable... Thrust is obviously way, way over the top, but until we have a solution for using ultra low thrust engines during on rails timewarp (with relative heading, preferably), we are somewhat forced to keep it this way for gameplay reasons, imo. If we choose to do some proper modifications to NFP engines later on, we can always try to steal from the RO crowd too, I think they have NFP configs

Edited July 11, 2015 by Tellion

[Raptor831]

Alright, will cook up a satisfactory MM patch for those tanks and PR to RealFuels. So much to do with regards to tanks and NF* anyways, and no idea how to do it properly ._.

Yeah, it is just density. Will test what I have and PR to you later today. I think Isp is good as it is, but you have a good point about masses being debatable... Thrust is obviously way, way over the top, but until we have a solution for using ultra low thrust engines during on rails timewarp (with relative heading, preferably), we are somewhat forced to keep it this way for gameplay reasons, imo. If we choose to do some proper modifications to NFP engines later on, we can always try to steal from the RO crowd too, I think they have NFP configs

Post the config file here (or even on RF's thread) in the meantime. RF's been pretty quick to update lately, but it's not always quick. So, just in case, we can leave it available for everyone to use until it gets merged. I'll be looking for your PR.

[Tellion]

PR is out. Regarding the Near Future Spacecraft tanks, it is a rather small issue and should not impart gameplay all too much. The NFP and NFC tanks need revisions too, but I will have to ask for advice in the RF thread before working on those.

[Raptor831]

@Tellion PR is accepted. Once I get the configs up to date with the new ullage system, I'll make a proper release. Also, I replied to your question on the RF thread. It's probably better served over there, since it's an RF thing and not a Stockalike-specific thing.

Note: Anyone who wants the latest and greatest can download from the repo, but do so at your own risk! There are a few things that are fixed that are not in the latest release (i.e. ullage, flow modes), but it's untested. Let me know if you find bugs so I can fix them.

Also, what do you all think about constraining the throttle on engines? For example, most real-life engines can't throttle down to almost nothing like stock engines can. Most only have full thrust or no thrust. I've been toying with the idea in my games to use this limitation, since it's a bit more realistic. But, it's kind of reaching into the "hard-core" realism space, so I didn't want to just toss that in as a surprise. Any thoughts?

[Svm420]

Also, what do you all think about constraining the throttle on engines? For example, most real-life engines can't throttle down to almost nothing like stock engines can. Most only have full thrust or no thrust. I've been toying with the idea in my games to use this limitation, since it's a bit more realistic. But, it's kind of reaching into the "hard-core" realism space, so I didn't want to just toss that in as a surprise. Any thoughts?

Sounds interesting. I have found I enjoy more and more the closer I get toward realism. Though I would like to try it before full embracing it. Throw up some test config or have an optional file? Either way sounds like a fun thing to try.

[Raptor831]

Sounds interesting. I have found I enjoy more and more the closer I get toward realism. Though I would like to try it before full embracing it. Throw up some test config or have an optional file? Either way sounds like a fun thing to try.

Well, you can try this: http://cl.ly/code/0Z3X2d0R2w1L Just put it anywhere in GameData. I dunno if this works at all, I tossed it together really fast. But your early TL engines won't throttle, and your late engines will throttle down to around 10%. This only affects L, L+, U, U+, and O engines. If it works, let me know. If you like it, I can maybe clean it up and make it available somewhere on the OP.

[dlrk]

What edit do I need to enable ignition and ullage simulation?

[dlrk]

Fiiiinally figured it out. I was missing @name = ModuleEnginesRF.

Where does that go?

[Raptor831]

To get ullage to work right now, you'd need to swap this:

MODULE
{
  name = ModuleEngineIgnitor
  // stuff...
}

with this:

ModuleEngineIgnitor
{
  // stuff...
}

You also need to make sure any ModuleEngines or ModuleEnginesFX are changed to a ModuleEnginesRF module. Thirdly, the ModuleEngineConfigs need to have type = ModuleEnginesRF inside to make doubly sure it's looking for the right engine modules. Then it should start working.

[Raptor831]

One thing I forgot to mention: I've been wanting to get some RealPlume effects into Stockalike, but it's been rolled into RO for a while. But now, RealPlume is a "separate" mod. But, there are only configs for RO engines. Same idea as RF's engine configs. So, it'd make perfect sense to come up with some Stockalike RealPlume configs. If anyone would be willing to help build them, I'd appreciate it. At current count, I have 38 engines in my app which all could use a plume config. There are also a few dozen that are config-ed up by the community (thanks again all!) but I haven't ported into the app, or in some cases I can't like for SpaceY which has very special engines. So doing them all would be a very long process.

Not sure if this should be in Stockalike, or be a separate thing. Technically, RealPlume could be used in a straight stock environment since it's just a visual addition, and it's not even tied to Real Fuels specifically. So probably separate. But it would dovetail nicely with these engine configs. So, anyone game?

[Tellion]

Not sure if coincidence, can't hurt to link this anyway.

Oh and: Thinking that throttle constraints as well as RF supplied ignition limitations would be a great addition to stockalike, although a global on/off setting would probably be the best in order to let players determine the amount of complexity they want to include in their game.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Tellion

[Raptor831]

Not sure if coincidence, can't hurt to link this anyway.

Oh and: Thinking that throttle constraints as well as RF supplied ignition limitations would be a great addition to stockalike, although a global on/off setting would probably be the best in order to let players determine the amount of complexity they want to include in their game.

Well, looks like someone else beat me to the bright idea. Go contribute there, I say. No need to have competing sets. Thanks for the tip, Tellion.

NathanKell kindly put a switch in for ullage and ignitions, so those are switchable by default in RF. Throttle is dictated by the engine config, so not really sure there would be an easy switch. I can probably release a throttle config or something to add throttle constraints, or the reverse to remove them. Honestly the config to remove throttle would be much easier. Good idea on that one, too.