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[1.12.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [26.0][18.12.2023][Soyuz Revamp Again]


Beale

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Various content by various folks who ought to know better has been removed.  ;)

Folks, I'm sure we're all familiar with the forum rules (right?), but perhaps a brief refresher is in order:

  • Please don't pester mod authors for updates.  It's rude; it's a poor way of showing gratitude for someone who's giving you shiny toys for free and owes you nothing; and it's against the rules (specifically, 2.2.p).
  • Please don't respond to people pestering for updates (or who are otherwise breaking rules).  You're not a moderator, so it's not your place to tell anyone what to do or not to do.  This is called "backseat moderating" and is, itself, against the rules (specifically, 3.2).  If you see someone behaving in a way that you believe is breaking forum rules, please just report the post and the moderators will have a look at it.
  • Please stay on-topic (rule 2.2.o).  Discussing this mod is on-topic for this thread.  Discussing other people's habits and etiquette is not.  ;)

Thank you for your understanding.

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28 minutes ago, derega16 said:

Will it have thrust differentiate TVC? At least just plume effect I don't know if it is possible or not

As far as I know, the only way to do this would be to have individual engines and use Mechjeb to control Differential Thrust. Other than that, the only option is the standard Thrust Vectoring/Gimballing.

 

@Beale On another note, I am really looking forward to trying out this new N1. Have you considered an RCS blister or integrated RCS for the Soyuz Descent Module? I play with Mandatory RCS, and I have to get creative to be able to control the capsule on reentry.

Edited by DJ Reonic
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1 hour ago, MashAndBangers said:

Question for anyone in the know:  Should the Blok G of the whole N1-L3 be 1.875 meters in diameter, or should it be 2.5m?

If anyone has images of the Blok G, please share!

Blok-G I think is around 4m IRL, so 2.5m in KSP.

Unfortunately I cannot find many good photos, but as best as I can tell, it's structure is very similar to Blok-D, with the torus tank split, but it has a cylinder hull.

n1_g.jpg

NK31 that powered it.
NK-31.jpg

1 hour ago, derega16 said:

Will it have thrust differentiate TVC? At least just plume effect I don't know if it is possible or not

Kinda, you definitely get control that way, but the underlying control is invisble gimbals.

50 minutes ago, DJ Reonic said:

 

@Beale On another note, I am really looking forward to trying out this new N1. Have you considered an RCS blister or integrated RCS for the Soyuz Descent Module? I play with Mandatory RCS, and I have to get creative to be able to control the capsule on reentry.

I play with mandatory RCS also and it's noticable for sure. I will keep something in mind, but maybe the best solution is just to build it into the capsule texture.

17 minutes ago, sslaptnhablhat said:

@Beale Amazing work on the N1 thus far , is there still a chance of you making a bare NK33 ?

that's planned yes.

 

 

29WS56r.jpeg
7eoHuc1.jpeg
eEQdgRe.jpg

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55 minutes ago, Beale said:

Blok-G I think is around 4m IRL, so 2.5m in KSP.

Unfortunately I cannot find many good photos, but as best as I can tell, it's structure is very similar to Blok-D, with the torus tank split, but it has a cylinder hull.

Hmm, okay.  That means the part set we have to make a Blok G will need resizing as well.  Can't remember if Blok G was on your list or not.  Oy the list, it never ends!

 

Edit that some people might see:

We do have this album from Raidernick of his N1 rocket:

https://imgur.com/a/cKWik81

Gives us the dimensions we're looking for at least, maybe some color scheme ideas.  (Soviet Green is a must of course)

Edited by MashAndBangers
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There's really not much to be found about that Blog-G, here are some links with a couple photos, maybe there's something other interesting there for you, lots of material about the N1.

01.jpg

lunnyii_raketnyii_kompleks_l3_arhivnaya_

3n1.jpg

%D0%9B%D1%83%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D1

 

https://www.buran.ru/htm/gud 19.htm

https://topwar.ru/25285-raketa-n-1-car-raketa.html

https://www.arms-expo.ru/articles/armed-forces/raketa-n-1-tsar-raketa/

http://integral-russia.ru/2018/01/11/otechestvennye-rakety-nositeli-chast-5/

https://epizodsspace.airbase.ru/bibl/energia46-96/06.html (nice photo and schematic of Blok-DM)

https://epizodsspace.airbase.ru/bibl/k-r/1993/9-n-1.html

 

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3 hours ago, MashAndBangers said:

Gives us the dimensions we're looking for at least, maybe some color scheme ideas.  (Soviet Green is a must of course)

Not really related , but N1 was never actually green , they were all dark grey with a single white painted sector of varying size (from what I remember) . I had a site bookmarked somewhere with an in depth analysis of this mistaken belief . The confusion comes from an old photograph where the dark grey appeared dark green due to the lighting and low quality .

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1 hour ago, hendrack said:

There's really not much to be found about that Blog-G, here are some links with a couple photos, maybe there's something other interesting there for you, lots of material about the N1.

Fascinating. I did not know they used a fairing-within-a-fairing design. Thank you for sharing your research.

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56 minutes ago, sslaptnhablhat said:

Not really related , but N1 was never actually green , they were all dark grey with a single white painted sector of varying size (from what I remember) . I had a site bookmarked somewhere with an in depth analysis of this mistaken belief . The confusion comes from an old photograph where the dark grey appeared dark green due to the lighting and low quality .

Soviet Green is always canon in Tantares!

 

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There's a pretty good reference on the N-1 called "N-1: For the Moon and Mars", although it looks like it may be out of print (glad I got it when I did).

It's got quite a few scale color illustrations of the four flown variants from multiple angles that show lots of greebles.

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4 hours ago, MOARdV said:

There's a pretty good reference on the N-1 called "N-1: For the Moon and Mars", although it looks like it may be out of print (glad I got it when I did).

It's got quite a few scale color illustrations of the four flown variants from multiple angles that show lots of greebles.

They are working on a second edition actually.

http://nick-stevens.com/2020/05/27/n-1-for-the-moon-mars-a-second-edition/#more-1994

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10 hours ago, oniontrain said:

Wait, I always see the R-7 and early Soyuz being depicted as green, is that wrong too?

Yes. Soyuz was always the shade of gray it is now.

... and I'm still waiting for an N1 that wouldn't cut corners by lumping all the engines together. A single part just doesn't convey the crazyness of this design (and with Kerbalism, can't partially fail).

Edited by Guest
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2 hours ago, Dragon01 said:

Yes. Soyuz was always the shade of gray it is now.

... and I'm still waiting for an N1 that wouldn't cut corners by lumping all the engines together. A single part just doesn't convey the crazyness of this design (and with Kerbalism, can't partially fail).

I m sure nobody here wants to manually place all 30something engines .

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8 hours ago, sirkut said:

They are working on a second edition actually.

That's good news!  I'll have to keep an eye out for that.

 

2 hours ago, Dragon01 said:

... and I'm still waiting for an N1 that wouldn't cut corners by lumping all the engines together

OLDD and RaiderNick both have separate Block A engines.  If I had any talent modeling, I'd try fixing collider issues in the OLDD meshes, since that's my favorite released N-1.

For Block A, I think having all the engines on one part will be fine, particularly since they're entirely shrouded by the hull.  For the upper stages, placeable engines would be preferable for the sake of making ahistorical variants with different engines.  I look forward to seeing how Beale's version turns out, since I'd like to have an N-1 and N-11 for heavier launches.

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13 hours ago, oniontrain said:

Wait, I always see the R-7 and early Soyuz being depicted as green, is that wrong too?

Soyuz (the rocket) I don't believe ever has been, but sources are not easy to track down.

I think there is some evidence that some were a shade of beige, a kind of grey-green, or white, based on preserved early models and some display models / museum pieces. But I don't think there is enough evidence of a more vibrant green.

fig10.jpg
fig1c.jpg

The spacecraft itself has been, in earlier versions, which causes some confusion.

Soyuz-19_-_Side_View.jpg

16 hours ago, hendrack said:

There's really not much to be found about that Blog-G, here are some links with a couple photos, maybe there's something other interesting there for you, lots of material about the N1.

%D0%9B%D1%83%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81_%D0%9D%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C-1.jpg

 

https://www.buran.ru/htm/gud 19.htm

https://topwar.ru/25285-raketa-n-1-car-raketa.html

https://www.arms-expo.ru/articles/armed-forces/raketa-n-1-tsar-raketa/

http://integral-russia.ru/2018/01/11/otechestvennye-rakety-nositeli-chast-5/

https://epizodsspace.airbase.ru/bibl/energia46-96/06.html (nice photo and schematic of Blok-DM)

https://epizodsspace.airbase.ru/bibl/k-r/1993/9-n-1.html

 

Awesome references many thanks!

3 hours ago, Dragon01 said:

... and I'm still waiting for an N1 that wouldn't cut corners by lumping all the engines together. A single part just doesn't convey the crazyness of this design (and with Kerbalism, can't partially fail).

Make a pull request.

How to create a GitHub account.

How to make a pull request.

TantaresLV Repo where you will make your pull request.

3D Modelling Software Option A

3D Modelling Software Option B

Texturing Software Option A

Texturing Software Option B

3 hours ago, Dragon01 said:

Yes. Soyuz was always the shade of gray it is now.

@Dragon01 There is no definitive evidence of this. Provide a source or provide a disclaimer that this is your opinion.

20 minutes ago, MOARdV said:

OLDD and RaiderNick both have separate Block A engines.  If I had any talent modeling, I'd try fixing collider issues in the OLDD meshes, since that's my favorite released N-1.

For Block A, I think having all the engines on one part will be fine, particularly since they're entirely shrouded by the hull.  For the upper stages, placeable engines would be preferable for the sake of making ahistorical variants with different engines.  I look forward to seeing how Beale's version turns out, since I'd like to have an N-1 and N-11 for heavier launches.

For sure, I think my honest take on it is that multi-engines sometimes have to bite the bullet and be one part, I think failure mods should accomodate this, either by rotating or disabling thrustTransforms on the fly, or through some other mechanism.

For that reason, Blok-A will be a single part, out of neccessity for my own free time :P, but the other stages will allow you to roll your own engines:

NK-33 WIP

4jF3iLA.jpeg

E.G. not accurate, but you got 8x symmetry on the Blok-B and 4x symmetry on the Blok-V.
AVIY2nZ.jpeg

 

Edited by Beale
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There is one obscure reference to an early green Soyuz rocket, but aside that nothing.

mgfZboh.jpg

But then again, early Voshkod were also white/beige.

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/images/rockets/r7/voskhod/assembly_1.jpg

Got a couple of books about the Soyuz, all seem to be beige or that dark grey.

Edited by hendrack
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15 minutes ago, hendrack said:

There is one obscure reference to an early green Soyuz rocket, but aside that nothing.

mgfZboh.jpg

But then again, early Voshkod were also white/beige.

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/images/rockets/r7/voskhod/assembly_1.jpg

Got a couple of books about the Soyuz, all seem to be beige or that dark grey.

 

 

 

Great photo, that beige / white would make an awesome recolour honestly

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