[1.12.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [26.0][18.12.2023][Soyuz Revamp Again]

[Spaceman.Spiff]

5 minutes ago, Beale said:

Poglyus

I have not heard of that before.

What is it?

[Starhelperdude]

1 minute ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

I have not heard of that before.

What is it?

polyot, or If I said the name wrong its the test laser thing on the second flight of energija that was unsuccessful

[KeaKaka]

2 hours ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

I have not heard of that before.

What is it?

Polyus, launched by Energia.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyus_(spacecraft)

[Beale]

1 hour ago, KeaKaka said:

Polyus, launched by Energia.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyus_(spacecraft)

ding ding ding

[Daniel Prates]

Was it crewed really, the actual polyus? I always thought if was an uncrewed space laser,  with a crewed TKS on the top. 

[Beale]

22 minutes ago, Daniel Prates said:

Was it crewed really, the actual polyus? I always thought if was an uncrewed space laser,  with a crewed TKS on the top. 

Frustratingly I can't find a good answer to this one. For a while now I thought Polyus had a simple tug craft like you saw with Kvant-1 on Mir. There are photos of "Polyus" with this same tug.

The problem is , as it turns out, the subject of those Photos is not Polyus, but Skif-DM, the "production run" asat weapon (I... Think?).

When looking into Polyus specifically it might have had a much more elaborate FGB module, something resembling visually priroda from Mir. And maybe had a docking port.

It's v. Interesting, but I need to dig a little deeper. I'll post all what I found here when getting further.

Thanks for assistance for digging Russian sources for @Zarbon44

Edited March 22, 2021 by Beale

[Hohmannson]

2 hours ago, Beale said:

might have had a much more elaborate FGB module

You got tricked by KGB when white-blue ship(on photos from integration facility) turned black on pad, right? It's thermal coating, look, it's in progress.

 

And how it looked. It was, as said, "nearly unaltered" FGB. Moar here http://www.buran.ru/htm/cargo.htm

Edited March 23, 2021 by Hohmannson
link

[Starhelperdude]

what would have been the power source of poljus? A fission reactor?

[Hohmannson]

12 minutes ago, Starhelperdude said:

power source

The laser was(proposed, never flown) a gas-dynamic laser running on compressed CO2 or something. FGB on top was using solars and powering all the vessel.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Hohmannson

[NateDaBeast]

Anyone else having an issue with right clicking with Lunokhod? I can't use the solar panel either.

Log: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9k5ihn474vthi4z/Player.log?dl=0

Update: I have no idea whats going on now lol.

From what I can see it is only TantaresSP that's acting like this.

Gif Below:

https://imgur.com/a/TZhZ3nN

Edited March 23, 2021 by NateDaBeast

[Clamp-o-Tron]

28 minutes ago, NateDaBeast said:

Anyone else having an issue with right clicking with Lunokhod? I can't use the solar panel either.

Log: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9k5ihn474vthi4z/Player.log?dl=0

Update: I have no idea whats going on now lol.

From what I can see it is only TantaresSP that's acting like this.

Gif Below:

https://imgur.com/a/TZhZ3nN

Still relevant for mods that haven’t packaged a variation yet.

[NateDaBeast]

2 hours ago, Clamp-o-Tron said:

Still relevant for mods that haven’t packaged a variation yet.

Fixed it for me! Thank you so much!

[Beale]

7 hours ago, Hohmannson said:

You got tricked by KGB when white-blue ship(on photos from integration facility) turned black on pad, right? It's thermal coating, look, it's in progress.

And how it looked. It was, as said, "nearly unaltered" FGB. Moar here http://www.buran.ru/htm/cargo.htm

Ah but I think this is not Polyus, but Skif-D, that's what I mean above? IDK I am really confused

It is a little shorter, and has maybe less complex FGB section. The code is only D 17F19D, rather than DM, like Polyus 17F19DM
I think this is the difference at least?

Polyus is often shown with this kind of double-length module:

A bit more like priroda, or Zarya:

You then have stuff like Buran screensaver where it is getting visited by Progress and Buran.

Might just be fun on the author, but could be based on some mystery Russian source?

 

[Starhelperdude]

I wonder if it would be possible to make the laser a power transmitter via beamed power plugin (a mod) and you could send the laser to a ahistorical reciever

[NiL]

3 hours ago, Beale said:

Russian source

So I asked my Russian friend who is close to the field, and he apparently thinks it had crew  capabilities for maintanance reasons (as I thought myself), but wasn't supposed to be permanently crewed. He also sent me those photos of a Polyus mockup in the Khrunichev facility with this plack:
https://imgur.com/gallery/zxbflW1

[Hohmannson]

8 hours ago, Beale said:

mystery Russian source

Skif-D is a Skif-Demo, Skif-DM is a Skif-Demo-Mockup(that one was flown and the one was called Polyus). It was made in a hurry with remaining hardware and actually was assembled on the Baikonur, there was no laser stuff, instead the non-TKS hull(down there) was packed by science. There are no original blueprints or even arts of the thing, art with docking port(also, that's male port, can't refuel with Progress) originates from 1992 magazine - people have artistic freedoms.

The mockup in the post above, in the Imgur album(with APAS) has an English plaque "orbital plant".  It's a later project ТМП(heavy orbital plant) based on Skifs - the Kristall module on steroids, that had docking port, yes. There is no evidence original Skif-D or Skif-DM(Polyus, flown) had a docking port or was supposed to have one.

About FGB sections: there is a confusion with documents, the TKS hull 16701 was supposed to be used in some Mir module(even listed like one in TKS derivatives list), but it never happened. It remained original 11F72-type TKS and thus was used to make Polyus. (there was no VA ofc)

About length differences - the most comprehensive Russian article on that subject says it's because of  fairing they had to install, so D and DM were same in sizes. We've never seen original Skif-D fairing(it probably never existed), so seems legit.

Skifs were not supposed to be manned - TKS was full of control systems too fragile to be mounted somewhere else - and it had no VA. The green thing you see on photos of full-white vessel and the white-blue vessel is a structural cap. It's not completely clear if the cap was flown, there is no photos of black-painted vessel without the fairing, because, as you see on one of my photos, they mounted the fairing before painting it.

About artistic freedoms - it's KSP and you are one of the best part modders and you are going to use B9PS, so there is no weird thing you can't do with it. So:

1)Skif-D had a testing laser systems - wasn't able to actually shoot. Compressed CO2 and turbo generator for the laser included, radar included.  Also it was supposed to have a lesser laser for targeting(was able to shoot) and a telescope somewhere near the laser(Neptune camera says hello). 

2)Skif-DM/Polyus had no laser systems, instead it had Xenon-Crypton tanks to release those in space for science, inflatable balloons to release them in space for science(had a radar too, to locate them) and some other undisclosed science(military-applicant experiment).

3)Highly likely they were similar in lenght, they are drawn with different fairings, but no one ever have seen smaller fairing of Skif-D.

4)Two paint shemes - white-blue(of Skif-D) was actually drawn to please the Gorbachev and generals, but who cares, we are in KSP. Also had a red Soviet air force star somewhere on the stripe.

5)Both had generic TKS 11F72 modules, unmanned, without docking ports and VAs, with generic TKS solars. Green VA-alike cap is debatable, but why not. Ship was using TKS engines for maneuvers, the RCS on laser sections were attitude control only.

6)There was a project of TMP crystal factory, Skif-based, using same crystal oven that on Kristall, Was supposed to have a docking port (not clear which) and larger solars from 17F111 Cascade battle station. Crewable, but just to load more materials in. There is none official bluerints or sketches, only that mockup from imgur album - full artistic freedom if you wish to.

7) Skif-D - 37 or 40m long, 4.1m wide, 95 ton. Skif-DM - same but 77 ton. TMP factory - unclear, but 88 ton. Ask if you need measures per-section.

---------------------------------------------

Materials in Russian are, mostly, the same mess as those in English because of semi-classified nature of the ship. There is a pack of bad photos of D or DM from integration facility and Khrunichev and one or two articles that helped. But i hope i made things more clear.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Hohmannson
weights and measures

[SpaceFace545]

20 hours ago, Beale said:

ding ding ding

Is the super laser included?

[Beale]

3 hours ago, NiL said:

So I asked my Russian friend who is close to the field, and he apparently thinks it had crew  capabilities for maintanance reasons (as I thought myself), but wasn't supposed to be permanently crewed. He also sent me those photos of a Polyus mockup in the Khrunichev facility with this plack:
https://imgur.com/gallery/zxbflW1

Really interesting variant! Thanks

58 minutes ago, Hohmannson said:

Skif-D is a Skif-Demo, Skif-DM is a Skif-Demo-Mockup(that one was flown and the one was called Polyus). It was made in a hurry with remaining hardware and actually was assembled on the Baikonur, there was no laser stuff, instead the non-TKS hull(down there) was packed by science. There are no original blueprints or even arts of the thing, art with docking port(also, that's male port, can't refuel with Progress) originates from 1992 magazine - people have artistic freedoms.

The mockup in the post above, in the Imgur album(with APAS) has an English plaque "orbital plant".  It's a later project ТМП(heavy orbital plant) based on Skifs - the Kristall module on steroids, that had docking port, yes. There is no evidence original Skif-D or Skif-DM(Polyus, flown) had a docking port or was supposed to have one.

About FGB sections: there is a confusion with documents, the TKS hull 16701 was supposed to be used in some Mir module(even listed like one in TKS derivatives list), but it never happened. It remained original 11F72-type TKS and thus was used to make Polyus. (there was no VA ofc)

About length differences - the most comprehensive Russian article on that subject says it's because of  fairing they had to install, so D and DM were same in sizes. We've never seen original Skif-D fairing(it probably never existed), so seems legit.

Skifs were not supposed to be manned - TKS was full of control systems too fragile to be mounted somewhere else - and it had no VA. The green thing you see on photos of full-white vessel and the white-blue vessel is a structural cap. It's not completely clear if the cap was flown, there is no photos of black-painted vessel without the fairing, because, as you see on one of my photos, they mounted the fairing before painting it.

About artistic freedoms - it's KSP and you are one of the best part modders and you are going to use B9PS, so there is no weird thing you can't do with it. So:

1)Skif-D had a testing laser systems - wasn't able to actually shoot. Compressed CO2 and turbo generator for the laser included, radar included.  Also it was supposed to have a lesser laser for targeting(was able to shoot) and a telescope somewhere near the laser(Neptune camera says hello). 

2)Skif-DM/Polyus had no laser systems, instead it had Xenon-Crypton tanks to release those in space for science, inflatable balloons to release them in space for science(had a radar too, to locate them) and some other undisclosed science(military-applicant experiment).

3)Highly likely they were similar in lenght, they are drawn with different fairings, but no one ever have seen smaller fairing of Skif-D.

4)Two paint shemes - white-blue(of Skif-D) was actually drawn to please the Gorbachev and generals, but who cares, we are in KSP. Also had a red Soviet air force star somewhere on the stripe.

5)Both had generic TKS 11F72 modules, unmanned, without docking ports and VAs, with generic TKS solars. Green VA-alike cap is debatable, but why not. Ship was using TKS engines for maneuvers, the RCS on laser sections were attitude control only.

6)There was a project of TMP crystal factory, Skif-based, using same crystal oven that on Kristall, Was supposed to have a docking port (not clear which) and larger solars from 17F111 Cascade battle station. Crewable, but just to load more materials in. There is none official bluerints or sketches, only that mockup from imgur album - full artistic freedom if you wish to.

7) Skif-D - 37 or 40m long, 4.1m wide, 95 ton. Skif-DM - same but 77 ton. TMP factory - unclear, but 88 ton. Ask if you need measures per-section.

---------------------------------------------

Materials in Russian are, mostly, the same mess as those in English because of semi-classified nature of the ship. There is a pack of bad photos of D or DM from integration facility and Khrunichev and one or two articles that helped. But i hope i made things more clear.

That is an incredible help and explainer! Thank you. I have saved this info to a file

This will help a lot.

53 minutes ago, SpaceFace545 said:

Is the super laser included?

We will see™

 

 

[Beale]

Thanks all for voting in the poll. Never such a strong result has been had before.

 

So yes, we will use B9, with many new exciting possibilities! Stay tuned.

[Spaceman.Spiff]

3 minutes ago, Beale said:

yes

How did you get the shinies?

[OrdinaryKerman]

2 minutes ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

How did you get the shinies?

Stock Mapped shader probably, been there since 1.8

Edited March 23, 2021 by OrdinaryKerman

[KeaKaka]

8 hours ago, Beale said:

Thanks all for voting in the poll. Never such a strong result has been had before.

 

So yes, we will use B9, with many new exciting possibilities! Stay tuned.

I assume the silver was for thermal reasons?

[Brin01]

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but the RD-8 Vannkopp's plume is sideways. I'd love to post a screenshot of the problem, but I can't figure out how.

Edit: The RD-58 Snostormvingen has the same problem.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Brin01
Found another thing to say.

[NiL]

On 3/23/2021 at 8:27 PM, Hohmannson said:

Materials in Russian

Thanks for the explanation! Also, I know Russian and this stuff is very interesting, could you throw in some links, please?

[Hohmannson]

26 minutes ago, NiL said:

Thanks for the explanation! Also, I know Russian and this stuff is very interesting, could you throw in some links, please?

http://www.buran.ru/other/skif-lan.pdf

http://www.buran.ru/htm/cargo.htm

Mostly used those. About the PDF - divide the captions by two, if you know what i mean. Drawings from Земля и Вселенная were... speculative and the SKIF-D vessel on photo doesn't look like an electric analogue - on part of the photos it has visible demonstration signs for верхушка to show.