[1.12.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [26.0][18.12.2023][Soyuz Revamp Again]

[biohazard15]

Not that I don't like the new Vostok, but... aw the hell with it, I DO NOT like the new Vostok! Current model is really great, and I like the color, heatshield and circular hatch. The new model is UGLY when compared to it. Less details, less "spaceship feeling", less... all other things.

And why every new Tantares major release must be save-breaking? New LK broke only Kristall on my Mir (I've detached and deorbited it before the updating, so no actual harm done), but new Vostok would break all my near-Kerbin RT network. Guess I would just use the old - at least until 1.0 (I would start a new career then).

[Kibble]

I like the new Vostok a lot better - the old one with the black heat shield didn't look very Soviet, or even very spacecraft-like.

[tjsnh]

Since you mentioned revisiting the vostok parts : a suggestion / thought

The vostok decoupler (the orangeish one) is the one vostok part that I think needs to be re-done more than any others, and here's why : it's got only one use. I've yet to be able to make it useful in any role other than mounting the vostok capsule (which it does do nicely). All of the other parts in the pack are useable mix-and-matched in all kinds of roles - For example, I can't even begin to tell you all the things I do with the soyuz parachute (that has the built-in top decoupler) and the little round RCS tanks that come with Vostok.

As I think I've mentioned before, I'm pretty picky with the add-on parts I use - currently 99% of my add-on parts are from the Tantares and TantaresLV packs (I use the sputnik from SXT, a 1.25m nosecone from something else, a single static light part from StationPartsExpansion, etc) and I've even pruned the Tantares packs of any parts I don't use (I don't use the fuji, for example, so I removed it in my install - it's great, just not something I find a use for with my stylistic choices) but that one leftover vostok decoupler is always there, taunting me, because no other decoupler fits the vostok capsule in a way that looks good but yet the decoupler is currently useless for almost anything else.

Just my 2cents, and thanks again for all the outstanding work!

[Beale]

EDIT: also, I was wondering if it would be possible to make an alt config that adds monoprop to the vostok engine, and TAC resources to the radial tanks.

Sure, should be extremely simple to do! (Assuming you are okay with module manager) I'd recommend checking out the "Tantares_Extra_TAC" file, to see how to remove and add resource modules to parts.

Teaser of the N1 + Soyuz 7K-LOK + LK Lander ultra-detailed .craft file: http://i.imgur.com/4co4AQA.png

There will be two versions, one with a TON of greeble that may have dependencies such as Tweakscale, RLA, and possibly XT Landertrons, and one simplified version with no dependencies and less greeble. I may ask someone to flight test this sucker in stock-ish 1.0X Scale KSP as I'm running 64k Kerbin with complicated ISP scalings, which is a PAIN to uninstall/reinstall.

The LK has a very nice setup, I appreciate the RCS setup on the top. This will be very nice to see on post #4433!

And the shuttle, which I posted before, is my take on ROMBUS and would not be possible if it were not for that V2 nose cone!! The core and KAVANT I were launched with your PROTON, but the rest was lofted using my fully reusable ROMBUS which *drastically* cut costs.

That is the Rombus, ...ah!

I love the concept, I do hope a vehicle like it flies someday.

Is there any craft files/subassembies of the launch craft?

I believe there is some on the front page, or at least spacecraft with the launchers attached (you can pull the launchers off as sub-assemblies).

I'm having a problem with the LK landing legs - whenever I have the legs extended while warping, they seem to teleport back to folded up when I come out of time warp. Don't really know how to take screen shots of it, though it's an annoying but minor issue. I'm using a mac if that helps.

A known bug, but thanks for bringing it forward.

There's a few aesthetic bugs with the LK legs that I'll seek to fix, thankfully they are functional it seems.

And, here are the results:

http://i.imgur.com/hm5M24H.png

No Joy. I can open the parts and view the things I stored there, but Kerbin is gone and if I EVA the game crashes.

Crash Folder Here-> https://www.dropbox.com/s/5vcwqcqbw4qs4mh/2015-03-18_002156.zip?dl=0

Ack, no good.

The crash output I read, but it doesn't make a huge amount of sense to me. It's a wild guess, but from the log I read, it sounds like the YAMAS station's orbital parameters are a little corrupted (Infinity or NAN error in reference).

Gah, no this is no good. I can't imagine what could affect it in this way between versions. Sorry to say

EDIT: I don't like the shock plate, it is completely destroying the sphere style of Vostok. (The thing i like the most 'bout it)

It will perhaps be adjusted to be a little more smooth.

Not that I don't like the new Vostok, but... aw the hell with it, I DO NOT like the new Vostok! Current model is really great, and I like the color, heatshield and circular hatch. The new model is UGLY when compared to it. Less details, less "spaceship feeling", less... all other things.

And why every new Tantares major release must be save-breaking? New LK broke only Kristall on my Mir (I've detached and deorbited it before the updating, so no actual harm done), but new Vostok would break all my near-Kerbin RT network. Guess I would just use the old - at least until 1.0 (I would start a new career then).

Hmm, the harder criticism is welcome, but a few more specifics is good: The colour is the same(?), heatshield (going more for accurate appearance this time), circle hatch (texture distortion problems mentioned a few pages back).

"Less spaceship feeling" you'll need to go into greater detail.

save-breaking: Yeah, that is unfortunate. But, many of my older models were off-scale / out of proportion, so I would much like to fix - has the nasty side-effect of different node placements.

I like the new Vostok a lot better - the old one with the black heat shield didn't look very Soviet, or even very spacecraft-like.

This is a little my feeling: heat-shield doesn't make so much sense on a ballistic spheric re-entry vehicle

Since you mentioned revisiting the vostok parts : a suggestion / thought

The vostok decoupler (the orangeish one) is the one vostok part that I think needs to be re-done more than any others, and here's why : it's got only one use. I've yet to be able to make it useful in any role other than mounting the vostok capsule (which it does do nicely). All of the other parts in the pack are useable mix-and-matched in all kinds of roles - For example, I can't even begin to tell you all the things I do with the soyuz parachute (that has the built-in top decoupler) and the little round RCS tanks that come with Vostok.

As I think I've mentioned before, I'm pretty picky with the add-on parts I use - currently 99% of my add-on parts are from the Tantares and TantaresLV packs (I use the sputnik from SXT, a 1.25m nosecone from something else, a single static light part from StationPartsExpansion, etc) and I've even pruned the Tantares packs of any parts I don't use (I don't use the fuji, for example, so I removed it in my install - it's great, just not something I find a use for with my stylistic choices) but that one leftover vostok decoupler is always there, taunting me, because no other decoupler fits the vostok capsule in a way that looks good but yet the decoupler is currently useless for almost anything else.

Just my 2cents, and thanks again for all the outstanding work!

Yeah, the decoupler is kinda crappy, I too have never found much use for it.

Not that I think a 1.25m > 0.625m decoupler is a useless part, I think the current Vostok part is a little wrong (And too heavy!).

I might add a bit more "service module" type functionality to it (to justify the weight), or maybe just lighten it up (to make it relevant past the first few nodes).

Edited March 18, 2015 by Beale

[biohazard15]

Hmm, the harder criticism is welcome, but a few more specifics is good: The colour is the same(?), heatshield (going more for accurate appearance this time), circle hatch (texture distortion problems mentioned a few pages back).

"Less spaceship feeling" you'll need to go into greater detail.

save-breaking: Yeah, that is unfortunate. But, many of my older models were off-scale / out of proportion, so I would much like to fix - has the nasty side-effect of different node placements.

Color - I meant the decoupler, not the capsule itself.

Heatshield - the real Vostok had no special heatshield, but I like that black-and-white capsule anyway. The new "heatshield" looks... strange.

"Spaceship feeling" - that would be hard to explain, as it's a pretty subjective feeling Old Vostok has these small details, like grates and seams on the capsule, handlebars on decoupler, little handle on the parachute etc - it looks like a somewhat hastily-made and not very high-tech thing, which Vostok actually was. New capsule look slick - totally killing that feeling.

Texture distortion - my guess would be that you're the only one who actually noticed that (I didn't - at least not before you've wrote about it). Anyway, I fail to see the problem - it is pretty hard to notice, and you'll see ot only if you know where to look.

Decoupler - it makes a great satellite bus (just remove the capsule from Vostok), and it also can be used as a stand-alone decoupler for some small sats. You could add some ECharge to it, or maybe make it into a fuel tank.

And the final advice - make all these revamps in one major update. Pretty please? That would break saves, but at least it would be an one-time big break, and not a chain of them (And time it for 1.0 release - which would most likely break ALL saves anyway).

[curtquarquesso]

Color - I meant the decoupler, not the capsule itself.

Heatshield - the real Vostok had no special heatshield, but I like that black-and-white capsule anyway. The new "heatshield" looks... strange.

"Spaceship feeling" - that would be hard to explain, as it's a pretty subjective feeling Old Vostok has these small details, like grates and seams on the capsule, handlebars on decoupler, little handle on the parachute etc - it looks like a somewhat hastily-made and not very high-tech thing, which Vostok actually was. New capsule look slick - totally killing that feeling.

Texture distortion - my guess would be that you're the only one who actually noticed that (I didn't - at least not before you've wrote about it). Anyway, I fail to see the problem - it is pretty hard to notice, and you'll see ot only if you know where to look.

Decoupler - it makes a great satellite bus (just remove the capsule from Vostok), and it also can be used as a stand-alone decoupler for some small sats. You could add some ECharge to it, or maybe make it into a fuel tank.

And the final advice - make all these revamps in one major update. Pretty please? That would break saves, but at least it would be an one-time big break, and not a chain of them (And time it for 1.0 release - which would most likely break ALL saves anyway).

I'll agree with biohazard on the "shock-plate" heat shield. I don't think many of us understand the concept. At first glance, it just looks bad, because we don't understand it, and we're not all in your head. Also, with regards to the hatch, I never noticed a thing until you pointed out the distortion to me. Likely, no one has noticed except you. I still like the round hatch as it's true to the OG Vostok capsule.

Even though Vostok was a ballistic capsule, it did have a portion of the bottom that was definitely dedicated ablative heat-shield material; Made up 17% of the capsule mass. I still don't quite understand the concept of a "shock-plate.". Is there a IRL example you could show us?

Edited March 18, 2015 by curtquarquesso

[Beale]

I like the new Vostok a lot better - the old one with the black heat shield didn't look very Soviet, or even very spacecraft-like.

Color - I meant the decoupler, not the capsule itself.

Heatshield - the real Vostok had no special heatshield, but I like that black-and-white capsule anyway. The new "heatshield" looks... strange.

"Spaceship feeling" - that would be hard to explain, as it's a pretty subjective feeling Old Vostok has these small details, like grates and seams on the capsule, handlebars on decoupler, little handle on the parachute etc - it looks like a somewhat hastily-made and not very high-tech thing, which Vostok actually was. New capsule look slick - totally killing that feeling.

Texture distortion - my guess would be that you're the only one who actually noticed that (I didn't - at least not before you've wrote about it). Anyway, I fail to see the problem - it is pretty hard to notice, and you'll see ot only if you know where to look.

Decoupler - it makes a great satellite bus (just remove the capsule from Vostok), and it also can be used as a stand-alone decoupler for some small sats. You could add some ECharge to it, or maybe make it into a fuel tank.

And the final advice - make all these revamps in one major update. Pretty please? That would break saves, but at least it would be an one-time big break, and not a chain of them (And time it for 1.0 release - which would most likely break ALL saves anyway).

Many thanks for the extended feedback!

Decoupler - the image I posted was the stock adapter, for sure I'll be sticking to orange when it comes to remaking the decoupler.

Spaceship feeling - I totally get you now! Yes maybe this would be a nice adjustment.

Texture - I'll experiment with UV mapping, to see if the distortion can be mitigated - I do agree the circular hatch is an important part of the Vostok.

Overall - I'll work on the PPTS now, give some time to think over Vostok changes.

Final point on save-breaking: The Vostok should be the last thing that is save-foibling, all the other craft now are built to scale, any future adjustments would have the same node sizes (inc. Salyut).

I'll agree with biohazard on the "shock-plate" heat shield. I don't think many of us understand the concept. At first glance, it just looks bad, because we don't understand it, and we're not all in your head. Also, with regards to the hatch, I never noticed a thing until you pointed out the distortion to me. Likely, no one has noticed except you. I still like the round hatch as it's true to the OG Vostok capsule.

Even though Vostok was a ballistic capsule, it did have a portion of the bottom that was definitely dedicated ablative heat-shield material; Made up 17% of the capsule mass. I still don't quite understand the concept of a "shock-plate.". Is there a IRL example you could show us?

http://www.planet4589.org/space/misc/moscow/p0239.JPG

Shock plate - made up: Nice for me to give a clear indication of where the node attach point is.

Pseudo science bad explanation: Large flat plate to bare the full force of re-entry, intended to slow the capsule down as quickly and violently as possible.

Heatshield:

Mmm, okay, this is a bit more interesting.

I could try a two-tone effect.

[Astrofox]

Beale, how about some half-hoop antennae? I also love to see more utility and science parts for this mod, such as rotating versions of the 1*2 solar panels, and a 1*1 version as well (also, some more antennae for remotetech purposes would be nice [i am getting kinda bored with using the same antennae over and over, especially when they don't have the range you want]).

[Niemand303]

Oh, my "two kopeikas", like we say in Russia: I personally prefer the round hatch, even with distortion, it is more historical and looks better (IMO). But the hexes, I pretty much like them, and the new shielding overall.

BTW, on weekend I'm going to Monino aeronautical museum, I hope I'll be able to take some photos of MiG-105, the atmospherical version of BOR/Spiral shuttle used to test aerodynamics.

[Beale]

Beale, how about some half-hoop antennae? I also love to see more utility and science parts for this mod, such as rotating versions of the 1*2 solar panels, and a 1*1 version as well (also, some more antennae for remotetech purposes would be nice [i am getting kinda bored with using the same antennae over and over, especially when they don't have the range you want]).

Like this?

Yeah, that might be nice.

Oh, my "two kopeikas", like we say in Russia: I personally prefer the round hatch, even with distortion, it is more historical and looks better (IMO). But the hexes, I pretty much like them, and the new shielding overall.

BTW, on weekend I'm going to Monino aeronautical museum, I hope I'll be able to take some photos of MiG-105, the atmospherical version of BOR/Spiral shuttle used to test aerodynamics.

Consensus for Vostok seems pretty clear now

Yeah, I'll take a good review of it, but for now - PPTS!

Museum - Nice!

[curtquarquesso]

Like this?

http://puu.sh/gFTth/dd032305b5.jpg

Yeah, that might be nice.

Consensus for Vostok seems pretty clear now

Yeah, I'll take a good review of it, but for now - PPTS!

http://puu.sh/gFTqO/018353c8bd.jpg

Glad we could help. Now, ALL-ABOARD THE PPTS HYPE TRAAAAINNN!! Choooo ^{Choooooo OoOoOoooo!!}

Oh, my "two kopeikas", like we say in Russia: I personally prefer the round hatch, even with distortion, it is more historical and looks better (IMO). But the hexes, I pretty much like them, and the new shielding overall.

BTW, on weekend I'm going to Monino aeronautical museum, I hope I'll be able to take some photos of MiG-105, the atmospherical version of BOR/Spiral shuttle used to test aerodynamics.

Whoa! Please take lots of pictures and remember to post them! I can't stand how few pictures there are of some historical Soviet/Russian spacecraft.

[AppleDavidJeans]

I had a blast at Kennedy Space Center today. I took a whole boatload of pictures. And I now have an idea for you to consider: The Saturn IB's first stage. KW Rocketry doesn't have a tank like that, and I'd like to see a tank with this unique shape.

EDIT: Oh, ladies and gentlekerbals, I present to you the balsa plane that Maxime Faget threw at his group of engineers on April 1, 1969, which started development of the US Space Shuttle program:

Edited March 18, 2015 by AppleDavidJeans

[Beale]

Glad we could help. Now, ALL-ABOARD THE PPTS HYPE TRAAAAINNN!! Choooo ^{Choooooo OoOoOoooo!!}

Some early WIP

I had a blast at Kennedy Space Center today. I took a whole boatload of pictures. And I now have an idea for you to consider: The Saturn IB's first stage. KW Rocketry doesn't have a tank like that, and I'd like to see a tank with this unique shape.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f6/Saturn_IB_1st_stage.jpg

It's a very hard tank to replicate with stock, yeah.

But, I think this part is already in SXT no? I have SXT installed, but I'm not 100% sure as I don't use the Saturn parts often.

If not, yeah, this could be a nice "misc" part (Maybe even texture sharing the Nasa Mission parts).

[nothingSpecial]

I like new Vostok capsule more than old one. The black bottom made doesn't really look good in most shenangians, but these cute little hexagons are so subtle. And real Sharik was pretty much sharik, a little sphere with not even slight sight of such things.

Until scorched after reentry, of course.

[billbobjebkirk]

Some early WIP

http://puu.sh/gFZJG/45283608ee.jpg

http://puu.sh/gFZKv/9ccf814c5c.jpg

It's a very hard tank to replicate with stock, yeah.

But, I think this part is already in SXT no? I have SXT installed, but I'm not 100% sure as I don't use the Saturn parts often.

If not, yeah, this could be a nice "misc" part (Maybe even texture sharing the Nasa Mission parts).

No, it's not in SXT.

Also, that PPTS looks darn good.

[tjsnh]

Yeah, the decoupler is kinda crappy, I too have never found much use for it.

Not that I think a 1.25m > 0.625m decoupler is a useless part, I think the current Vostok part is a little wrong (And too heavy!).

I might add a bit more "service module" type functionality to it (to justify the weight), or maybe just lighten it up (to make it relevant past the first few nodes).

Re Vostok Decoupler : The shape is also kindof iffy. Something to consider - make the spherical mono tanks part of the decoupler itself, maybe build in an extending antenna or something and 50 charge of battery power. It would make it more "service module y" and might touch up he visuals a bit. I can't speak for anyone else, but anytime I use it I always stick 8 of the sphere tanks in a ring along it's top base to make a "nest" for the vostok pod (as in the IRL design), integrating the two might make sense.

OR, as an alternative, perhaps give the vostok pod itself a "skirt" fairing, with the sphere tanks (or visuals for them) similar to the SXT vostok pod so that a regular decoupler (like the excellent, slim, soyuz one) can be used with it?

Just throwing ideas at the wall.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, that PPTS preview is epic.

[Beale]

I like new Vostok capsule more than old one. The black bottom made doesn't really look good in most shenangians, but these cute little hexagons are so subtle. And real Sharik was pretty much sharik, a little sphere with not even slight sight of such things.

Until scorched after reentry, of course.

I think a little greeble will be good on Vostok, just a few ports and so to give it a little bit more detail.

No, it's not in SXT.

Also, that PPTS looks darn good.

I could have sworn! Oh well.

Thanks

Adjusted hatch.

Re Vostok Decoupler : The shape is also kindof iffy. Something to consider - make the spherical mono tanks part of the decoupler itself, maybe build in an extending antenna or something and 50 charge of battery power. It would make it more "service module y" and might touch up he visuals a bit. I can't speak for anyone else, but anytime I use it I always stick 8 of the sphere tanks in a ring along it's top base to make a "nest" for the vostok pod (as in the IRL design), integrating the two might make sense.

OR, as an alternative, perhaps give the vostok pod itself a "skirt" fairing, with the sphere tanks (or visuals for them) similar to the SXT vostok pod so that a regular decoupler (like the excellent, slim, soyuz one) can be used with it?

Just throwing ideas at the wall.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, that PPTS preview is epic.

http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/ad52/13MATTallica96/hypetraincomingthrough.jpg

Hmm, I like these ideas.

Noting them down!

[MK3424]

No, it's not in SXT.

Also, that PPTS looks darn good.

But the Saturn IB is already in FASA:http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/24867-0-90-FASA-Feb-20th-90-Release-v5-22

[Beale]

Quite pleased with this one. Nice, smooth, future looking.

ARGH!

Yeah, IVAs will take... a while.

But the Saturn IB is already in FASA:http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/24867-0-90-FASA-Feb-20th-90-Release-v5-22

Yeah, that's a real nice one!

Edited March 18, 2015 by Beale

[tg626]

KBS SPECIAL BULLETIN...

We interrupt this thread to bring you the latest news from KSC. Raytrey Kerman is missing!

Following 2 days of bizarre reports from orbit, the sole occupant of the YAMAS station has vanished!

It is an odd tale that began 2 days ago when Raytrey began reporting that "Kerbin was missing", that he "Felt like someone else was controlling him", and that "Physics had broken". Raytrey, a noted by inexperienced scientist had stayed behind to complete some upgrades to the station while awaiting a new crew to arrive next week. Bob and Shelvey returned to Kerbin 4 days ago and appear to be in good health.

In a bizarre twist, Jebediah, in a fit of being Jeb, locked himself in mission control and commandeered a Hamal transport waiting with a cargo of snacks on the launch pad. Declaring "It must be purified by fire!!" he launched the Hamal, docked, and sent the station crashing into the Kerbin Desert!

We have amazing pictures so you know it must be true!!

Authorities are said to be conducting an investigation into what happened to the snacks.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

I have decided that most likely culprit is NOT Tantares, but that ^!&*$ docking bug that's been hounding me...

[Kibble]

So will PPTS have a parachute/adaptor part so you can attach SSVP drogue on top?

[RobotsAndSpaceships]

The PPTS is the capsule we need, but not the one we deserve. I'm getting tired of the crappy Mk1-2 and really need a change, this will fit right int.

Also, will it have built in RCS thrusters like the real one?

[DGatsby]

The PPTS is the capsule we need, but not the one we deserve. I'm getting tired of the crappy Mk1-2 and really need a change, this will fit right int.

Also, will it have built in RCS thrusters like the real one?

Well said!

[biohazard15]

Like this?

http://puu.sh/gFTth/dd032305b5.jpg

Yeah, that might be nice.

Consensus for Vostok seems pretty clear now

Yeah, I'll take a good review of it, but for now - PPTS!

http://puu.sh/gFTqO/018353c8bd.jpg

Museum - Nice!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/MiG-105_%22Spiral%22_in_Monino_Air_Force_Museum.jpg

Great PPTS!

Sadly, but Spiral-like and Dyna Soar-like spaceplanes is nearly impossible to make in FAR, and I suspect it would be like this in new stock atmosphere unless Squad would implement the correct lifting body aerodynamics.

[passinglurker]

boy I missed a lot of stuff...

here are my thoughts on the vostok.

1. the "shock plate" seems weird and screams "not a reentry vehicle" in my personal opinion I'm not really sure why a rounded bottom was forgone in the first place.

2. If distortion is an issue preventing the implementation of a round hatch then why not use a separate mesh? think something reminiscent of inflatable airlock on the voskhod just not as bulky. Also I'd put the hatch in the northern hemisphere not the equator to make the reentry properties more believable (vosktok's center of mass was balanced to fly aft first during reentry so whatever is in the north half gets less heat meaning its where all the doors and windows go)

3. speaking of windows instead of two useless ones on the sides why not mimic the real vostoks portholes? meaning first and foremost you put the kerbal on his back in the pod not standing like he is now then you would put one in the northernmost part of the hatch for forward visibility and then a matching window on the opposite side reminiscent of the optical tool vostok used to check its orientation for reentry, and a third also in the north hemisphere off to the right a bit to check the horizon assuming the side and bottom windows are visible in iva one could make the vostok double as a decent belly lander for the iva flight junkies out there assuming you give the new one a radar altimeter anyway...

4. this may be unpopular but I'd also suggest eliminating a lot of vostok's smaller parts(sphere tanks, hoop antenna, rcs jets etc.) and rolling them into a fewer number of combo parts. the reason being the vostok is meant to be an early game vehicle there for you should be able to recreate it with tier1 buildings as it stands vostok easily exceeds the 30 part limit(also I'd combine the tanks and engines for the r7's radial LFB's to again save on part count)

EDIT: 5. why not save ram and use the Tantares_Orbital_A texture sheet wherever possible? the vostok specific bits would give you a reason to fill in the remaining blank spaces

Edited March 19, 2015 by passinglurker