[1.12.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [26.0][18.12.2023][Soyuz Revamp Again]

[biohazard15]

So, tested it...

1) I agree with Darth Lazarus - it feels a bit light for its size, total mass around 12t seems okay

2) Radiators on monoprop tanks needs some texture. (Sadly, KSP doesn't support their intended function)

3) LES is needed - stock and mod ones won't fit there

4) DRE config for VA is also needed (or a separate part, like Polaris. Maybe the same part)

[Mira]

Is there a docking port for the Soyuz? For the moment, I mounted an Apollo port to the orbital module, but I'd love a Mir-compatible replacement.

The periscope is a FASA camera part. Alas, I misjudged how the antennas would deploy, so one swung too far forward and for some reason the action group didn't deploy the other at all.

Also, for some reason I don't have the alternate green parts -- guess those aren't available yet. A minor quibble, but the newer Soyuz-TMA craft are grey.

[Reichtangle]

Hallo. About ze docking port. Nein. Use ze stock one. And I thought ze TMA was more black. Nice TKS. I used ze KOSMOS VA IVA as a placeholder.

[Beale]

hrm baele ... just tested your Alnair. the parts look really really good, but i had trouble with the mass. okay it's beta and we are here to help so i noticed the following:

-CoM of the returncapsule is ... right at the center ... on reentry, SAS was turnd off, a soft spin was aplied to teh capsule and the capsule kept spinning around, no selforiantation, with deadly reentry, the capsule would be toast ... even on parachute was no real selforiantion. (capsulebottem not pointing the ground proberly)

-mass of the cat-5 docking interface. it's has the size like the standard 3 man Pod but weights less then the returncapsule? only one ton? i think thats to low could be around 2 or 3

-mass of a fully assembled Alanir is maybe too low. original TKS was between 17,5 and 20 tons. so fully build Alnair with empty cargobay could have a mass of around 10 to 12 (following the 60% scalerule of KSP), current mass is 8,6 tons (messured with KerbalEngineer)

-CoM of Alnair: a problem is the Center of Mass of the full Alanir spacecraft. it's more in the upper half of the space craft, so docking without SAS is a impossible because of the torgue. (the RCS aid helper plugin is very helpfull to see this in the VAB)

-Mass of the RCS tanks seems okay. they are big and heavy and have radiators

-mass of retrunengines seems okay too

-small parts are more lightweight, okay too

-conclusions: making the Cat-5 docking interface a bit more heavier will change the CoM more to the middle. at the same time, the mass of the Alnair will more fit the 60% mass of the real TKS and you will need a big rocket (like a proton) to lift it. it was a heavy ferry for the soviet spaceprogramm and nothing less and nothing more. in teh current form, i could take my Soyuz 2-3 which can lift a maxium of 8 tons to orbit (with good piloting, using the monoprop engines of alanir orbit would be no problem). change the CoM of teh returncpasule a bit more to teh bottom of it.

the cargobay is awesome ...

-small thing about the look. taking your beta craftfile, the RCS tanks are in 4x symetry. with this, you have good acces to the cargobay and the habitatmodule. problem: solarpannels clip into the RCS tanks by rotating. moving the RCS tanks to a more TKS like position to "free" the panels will result in a more blocked cargobay. placing the solarpanles above the cargodays can result in blocked baydoor depending of the rotationangle. overall i dont want to miss the cargobay, but moveable solarpanels can be a pain in the ass for a good looking spacecraft in terms of asthetics.

i hope this helps a bit Baele, good night and thank you very much for the fast development.

Wow, great feedback, thanks

It seems the major issue is with Mass, the masses in the currently available beta are all wrong and have now been fixed, so that should be okay (for example the Cat-5 part is now 1.9 tons ).

I'll add a COM offset to the return capsule.

So, tested it...

1) I agree with Darth Lazarus - it feels a bit light for its size, total mass around 12t seems okay

2) Radiators on monoprop tanks needs some texture. (Sadly, KSP doesn't support their intended function)

3) LES is needed - stock and mod ones won't fit there

4) DRE config for VA is also needed (or a separate part, like Polaris. Maybe the same part)

Hi

1) Total mass should now be around 12t, after adjusted weights.

2) Yeah, The current textures are a bit of a rush job.

3) Planned, I guess there is an actual need for it now if no mod ones do the trick.

4) I'll be sure to add it on release

Many thanks for the feedback

Is there a docking port for the Soyuz? For the moment, I mounted an Apollo port to the orbital module, but I'd love a Mir-compatible replacement.

The periscope is a FASA camera part. Alas, I misjudged how the antennas would deploy, so one swung too far forward and for some reason the action group didn't deploy the other at all.

Also, for some reason I don't have the alternate green parts -- guess those aren't available yet. A minor quibble, but the newer Soyuz-TMA craft are grey.

-snip-

No docking port yet. I'd like to make some (male and female versions, not that the game can tell the difference). For now, the stock 0.625m ones are what I use, of course the Apollo one looks nice too.

The green textures will be in the next release, also white.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Beale

[Mira]

Hallo. About ze docking port. Nein. Use ze stock one. And I thought ze TMA was more black. Nice TKS. I used ze KOSMOS VA IVA as a placeholder.

It's too bad the stock ports are a little bit too big. I might wind up using the resize-any-part mod to downscale the Mir docking port I have that came with my Mir station to see if I can get it to fit well. I might also wind up upscaling the entire Soyuz a bit to match the station if it turns out to be too small to match it.

Here's a picture of Soyuz TMA-7. I'm not sure when the grey blankets went in, but it's got to be a pretty recent change. I shall look into this later! Interestingly, the periscope is still green (a leftover one, perhaps) and the SM-to-OM umbilical stands out quite a bit with that brown blanket.

[Darth Lazarus]

use teh dockingport junior? teh smal one? that fits perfectly and every examplecraftfiel use teh junior dockingport ...

[Reichtangle]

use teh dockingport junior? teh smal one? that fits perfectly and every examplecraftfiel use teh junior dockingport ...

All of zem use it except ze TKS. That means I have to make my Salyut like 6/7 and have a large docking port on ze bottom instead of ze OMS. I put ze TKS tanks and engines on ze sides. I will provide pictures sün.

[Beale]

Re-did radiator texture.

Also TKS weights 12 tons in total, fully fueled.

Fixed some issues with colliders on the doors.

Playing with some more Kerbtown Stuff!

[Reichtangle]

Lower ze CoM on ze TKS, because Reentrys suck with it. And the parachute doesn't level it out either. And add collision to ze door. Or would that always stay there?

[Beale]

Lower ze CoM on ze TKS, because Reentrys suck with it. And the parachute doesn't level it out either. And add collision to ze door. Or would that always stay there?

Maybe this method of speaking can be a bit offensive to German persons? It does make it very difficult to read your earlier post also. Just a thought.

But the points you bring up are fixed now.

Green TKS

People asked to see, so here it is! (WIP)

[Reichtangle]

Maybe this method of speaking can be a bit offensive to German persons? It does make it very difficult to read also. Just a thought.

But the points you bring up are fixed now.

Green TKS

People asked to see, so here it is! (WIP)

http://puu.sh/aqZIw/490145fead.jpg

http://puu.sh/aqZQq/2fd3ba2071.jpg

Gib. Plz. How's IVAs? And my character is from polandball, so I like to talk like ze reichtangle.

EDIT: About alternate textures, will they be released when Alnair is fully released, and could you add a black/very dark gray Tantares?

Edited July 25, 2014 by Reichtangle

[Darth Lazarus]

Beale is right, this talking is a bit offensive ... and to be honest ... poland people talking like this, fictonal or not are ... more then strange regarding teh past.

Greent TKS ... i'm very exicted now to get my hands on the finishd TKS. my Proton is happly waiting for the new payload ^__^

[Reichtangle]

Beale is right, this talking is a bit offensive ... and to be honest ... poland people talking like this, fictonal or not are ... more then strange regarding teh past.

Greent TKS ... i'm very exicted now to get my hands on the finishd TKS. my Proton is happly waiting for the new payload ^__^

Look up polandball. It will make some sense? Maybe?

[biohazard15]

I see one problem on a screenshot with green TKS: solar panels are clipping into radiators.

[Spacestorm]

So Beale I also tested your Alnair and it is awesome. The parts look good and give really stock feeling. Also the new radiators are great. I can't wait to get my hands on finished TKS!

But apart from other issues mentioned by Darth Lazarus I did some testing with return capsule and it's build-in parachute. It seems that stock parachute after decoupling from ship also can't orient itself properly.

Here is a screenshot of what I mean

And a screenshot of your capsule (with SAS turned off)

I did some more testing with stock capsules and your Tantares capsule and none of them oriented properly as a single part. Only attaching the additional part like parachute made them fall properly.

Were you able to solve this by adding COM offset to return capsule?

[Beale]

So Beale I also tested your Alnair and it is awesome. The parts look good and give really stock feeling. Also the new radiators are great. I can't wait to get my hands on finished TKS!

But apart from other issues mentioned by Darth Lazarus I did some testing with return capsule and it's build-in parachute. It seems that stock parachute after decoupling from ship also can't orient itself properly.

Here is a screenshot of what I mean

-snip-

And a screenshot of your capsule (with SAS turned off)

-snip-

I did some more testing with stock capsules and your Tantares capsule and none of them oriented properly as a single part. Only attaching the additional part like parachute made them fall properly.

Were you able to solve this by adding COM offset to return capsule?

Hi, and thanks for the feedback

This is a tricky issue.

The capsule already has a COM offset (or it should do from the .CFG)

I'll play around some more. But might have to scrap the integrated chute idea.

[biohazard15]

More Progress concept:

Here, you may see what I mean by "probe core". This part (Gsh-30 nosecap from NovaPunch. Interesting, why is it named after Russian aircraft cannon?) acts as a placeholder for Progress command computer. In final variant, it should contain probe core, ECharge (enough to deorbit and land, about 50) and reaction wheels. Integrated chute won't be necessary, as not all flights will end with capsule recovery.

Between engine block and Station Science experiment is the inflatable heatshield. Tantares decoupler was removed and RCS moved to engine block, because it has its own decoupler.

All other parts from Tantares KMA-1 was left in place.

Note that some Station Science experiment modules change their weight when experiment is completed (+3 tons!), so that config may need some additional chutes.

Here, you may see "return capsule". Heatshield is inflated for reentry, and orbital module and engine block are detached. This is what it would look in upper atmosphere.

And here, you may see Progress in orbital configuration (MJ AR-202 and small battery were added to provide power for this demo).

Also, real ships for some reference:

Soyuz TMA-7:

Progress M-52:

Edited July 26, 2014 by biohazard15

[Reichtangle]

I noticed something. Vega should have moar space. A LOT MOAR SPACE. Or at least clutter it up more and add more science experiments. Same with the Polaris OM.

[Beale]

More Progress concept:

-snip-

Here, you may see what I mean by "probe core". This part (Gsh-30 nosecap from NovaPunch. Interesting, why is it named after Russian aircraft cannon?) acts as a placeholder for Progress command computer. In final variant, it should contain probe core, ECharge (enough to deorbit and land, about 50) and reaction wheels. Integrated chute won't be necessary, as not all flights will end with capsule recovery.

Between engine block and Station Science experiment is the inflatable heatshield. Tantares decoupler was removed and RCS moved to engine block, because it has its own decoupler.

All other parts from Tantares KMA-1 was left in place.

Note that some Station Science experiment modules change their weight when experiment is completed (+3 tons!), so that config may need some additional chutes.

-snip-

Here, you may see "return capsule". Heatshield is inflated for reentry, and orbital module and engine block are detached. This is what it would look in upper atmosphere.

-snip-

And here, you may see Progress in orbital configuration (MJ AR-202 and small battery were added to provide power for this demo).

Also, real ships for some reference:

Soyuz TMA-7:

-snip-

Progress M-52:

-snip-

Very interesting post

The concept of the 1.25m to 0.625m probe core is interesting, it leaves the space between the core and the service module free for whatever people wish.

Thanks

BTW: never tried station science, but I will now, looks great! (Though the changing weights seem to defy all laws of physics.)

I noticed something. Vega should have moar space. A LOT MOAR SPACE. Or at least clutter it up more and add more science experiments. Same with the Polaris OM.

Yeah polaris OM is almost totally empty, it was mostly a "quickly finish this so I can move onto exciting new Tantares". As for Vega, it is long overdue an IVA makeover

Radial Chutes

Scrapped the inbuilt parachute idea, now moving onto radials, expect a new beta out tonight.

Bit weaker than the stock radials, but work fine. Self-righting works perfectly

Finally sat back with a beer and made an R7. Well, as good as an R7 can be made with stock parts and my meager skills . I'll give it another go with HGR

Still gets Tantares comfortably into a 100km by 100km orbit.

Edited July 27, 2014 by Beale

[Reichtangle]

Radial Chutes

Scrapped the inbuilt parachute idea, now moving onto radials, expect a new beta out tonight.

Bit weaker than the stock radials, but work fine. Self-righting works perfectly

http://puu.sh/atm8X/af571a62e6.jpg

http://puu.sh/atlRd/71936ccbd5.jpg

http://puu.sh/atlT7/f08478ef48.jpg

http://puu.sh/atlVQ/ce6f3e245c.jpg

http://puu.sh/atlWF/2e7123bef4.jpg

This doesn't really solve the problem. What about controlled reentry? Plus, I liked the VA with the built in parachute.

EDIT: I know what you said about launch stages, but if you have spare time, could you pleaasse make a stock alike proton?

[Moby]

Great mod! Perfect small craft for ferrying crew to orbit.

[Beale]

Great mod! Perfect small craft for ferrying crew to orbit.

Many thanks!

This doesn't really solve the problem. What about controlled reentry? Plus, I liked the VA with the built in parachute.

EDIT: I know what you said about launch stages, but if you have spare time, could you pleaasse make a stock alike proton?

Poor example with the screenshots.

The capsule does now self-orient on re-entry.

I do like the built in parachute, but it is literally impossible (I think) to keep it one part and self-orient.

About the proton, try SXT, I think that will let you build a quite nice stock one!

I'll be sticking to orbiters / landers / stations, etc. Sorry!

Edited July 27, 2014 by Beale

[Darth Lazarus]

Stock Proton and Stock Soyuz ... (still tuning some bits and pieces on them ) downside of tehse rockets: very huge partcount, but they look awesome

[Gristle]

Alnair Docking Command module needs to have actual ModuleCommand included. The TKS FGB should be a standalone spacecraft not requiring the return capsule for Command functions.

MODULE
{
	name = ModuleCommand
	minimumCrew = 1
}

[Omega482]

Hi Beale!

Firstly, Great mod! Love the stock-a-like style! Been having so much fun with it.

Secondly, I've come across a bug with the AFKB habitation module.

It seems that the crew hatch hover over is missing, which means I can put Kerbals in but can't get them out.

Here's some shots.

(Mousing over the door in both pics)

Couldn't find any posts about it so i thought i'd bug report.

I'm running ksp heavily modded so I'm not sure if its a mod conflict problem. Will try running a clean version with tantares.

Thanks again for a great mod!