[1.12.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [26.0][18.12.2023][Soyuz Revamp Again]

[DJ Reonic]

Am I out of  my mind, or is the science package for the top of Priroda missing? (The one in the Mir Picture on the first page.)

[KeaKaka]

40 minutes ago, DJ Reonic said:

Am I out of  my mind, or is the science package for the top of Priroda missing? (The one in the Mir Picture on the first page.)

There's no Tantares supplied Priroda science package, so you can just chuck whatever science you want on it

[Rutabaga22]

I don't know if this is out of the scope of development, but will Orel be added at some point?

[septemberWaves]

On 12/3/2022 at 9:35 PM, DJ Reonic said:

Am I out of  my mind, or is the science package for the top of Priroda missing? (The one in the Mir Picture on the first page.)

It's not one part, it's a flat disc part with several science parts attached to it. Look through the science tab and you'll find them.

[Entr8899]

On 12/3/2022 at 10:18 PM, KeaKaka said:

There's no Tantares supplied Priroda science package, so you can just chuck whatever science you want on it

What are you talking about? Yes there are.

[Space_nico]

Hi Kerbonauts!

May I miss a topic about it but here's my question:

Did Soyuz escape fairings will be planned in future?

I guess my question is pretty demanding (i'm sorry...), but IMO it will be add a great feature to this mod.

I put illustrations under on how it works when espace tower is ignited.
Even if the escape tower is jettisoned, is still possible to escape via cutting fairing in half with the help of 4 solid rocket motors (like Soyuz MS-10 flight) 
→ Holy Scott Manley did a video on this + animation 

 

 

Thanks for your answer if faisable or not and your reading!  

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by Space_nico

[dap64]

Why all my parts from tantares is white?

 

Edited December 28, 2022 by dap64

[Royalswissarmyknife]

I'm hopeing Tantares 2 will have a accurate Soyuz abort system 

[Kurld]

Edit:  is there some reason the part(s) are marked physicalSignificance = NONE in their configs?  When I clear that the part can be rotated.

When I try to attach the Zvezda high gain antenna to a servo so I can rotate it . . . it works in the VAB but not in flight.   I checked some of the other Tantares antennas and they don't rotate either.  I can see the servo body turning but the part is locked in place.  I checked some other stock antennas and they rotate just fine in flight.  

I'm really digging the mod.  Great work!

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Kurld
found explanation, sort of

[softweir]

22 hours ago, Kurld said:

Edit:  is there some reason the part(s) are marked physicalSignificance = NONE in their configs? 

In general, a lot of small parts in KSP are marked physicalSignificance = NONE to reduce CPU load when simulating physics - each part's mass is added to the mass of the parent part, and no physics interactions between it and the parent part are computed; for instance, there will be no springy wobble between the small part and the parent. It is in general a good habit to mark small parts this way as a kindness to most players.

I don't, of course, know exactly why Beale marked any parts this way.

A simple but inelegant solution to this would be to interpose a part that has not been marked physicalSignificance = NONE between a servo and the antennae; the intermediary part will be moved by the servo and the antenna ought to move with it.

[Kriegio]

Is there any nauka guide?

[Friznit]

19 hours ago, Kriegio said:

Is there any nauka guide?

Don't think so - I never got around to doing one.  I've not looked closely at the real thing but at a glance it seems fairly similar to Zarya so you could start with that as a basis.

[Kriegio]

44 minutes ago, Friznit said:

Don't think so - I never got around to doing one.  I've not looked closely at the real thing but at a glance it seems fairly similar to Zarya so you could start with that as a basis.

Oh alright, I'll try that out since it was a back up module for Zarya.

[kurluha]

Hi guys. 
I ran into a problem: I can't move crew from module to module. I get a message that "there is no more space", although the modules are empty.
What could be the problem?
Thank's.

[Kurld]

That's a new one on me but I've been away from the game for a long time.  Could it have something to do with inventory items the crew are carrying? I'd assume that stuff would just stay with the individual kerbal but maybe not?

[Kurld]

A few things have crept up as I've been working on modules and craft for the Ross side of my KSS.

There are some kOS patches included in the pod part folders that cause a lot of red spam in the console.  I think the patches are trying to add kOS processors to various pods but then for whatever reason when you load into the flight scene it just barfs.  I soft-deleted the patches and it stopped complaining.

I put up a Soyuz TM test flight and then Bill decided that he wanted to stroll into the orbital module. After that I could not transfer crew anymore.  I'm guessing it's because the hatch back into the descent module is blocked by the parachute, or something?  Because you can't get out at all when you get back home.  There is a moduleDecouple that I think is supposed to ditch the chute so you can get out of the hatch, but it can't find an ExplosiveNodeId named "top" which is odd, because it is clearly there in the config file.

@Space_nico I am the guy who made the PEBKAC LES mod years ago.  If I can ever get a few weeks to sit down and do it, I do plan to make a launch escape for the Soyuz. That I'll have to re-learn everything I forgot about Blender is probably what will slow me down the most.  In the meanwhile I sort of faked one with odd parts and used some timers from the SmartParts mod to control the escape and jettison sequences.  I still need to get some grid fins onto it somehow.

 

 

Edited February 12, 2023 by Kurld
clarity

[deak]

12 hours ago, Kurld said:

A few things have crept up as I've been working on modules and craft for the Ross side of my KSS.

There are some kOS patches included in the pod part folders that cause a lot of red spam in the console.  I think the patches are trying to add kOS processors to various pods but then for whatever reason when you load into the flight scene it just barfs.  I soft-deleted the patches and it stopped complaining.

I put up a Soyuz TM test flight and then Bill decided that he wanted to stroll into the orbital module. After that I could not transfer crew anymore.  I'm guessing it's because the hatch back into the descent module is blocked by the parachute, or something?  Because you can't get out at all when you get back home.  There is a moduleDecouple that I think is supposed to ditch the chute so you can get out of the hatch, but it can't find an ExplosiveNodeId named "top" which is odd, because it is clearly there in the config file.

@Space_nico I am the guy who made the PEBKAC LES mod years ago.  If I can ever get a few weeks to sit down and do it, I do plan to make a launch escape for the Soyuz. That I'll have to re-learn everything I forgot about Blender is probably what will slow me down the most.  In the meanwhile I sort of faked one with odd parts and used some timers from the SmartParts mod to control the escape and jettison sequences.  I still need to get some grid fins onto it somehow.

 

 

You can achieve this with procedural fairings and kerbal reusability expansion, just takes a bit of fiddling with action groups and staging. 

https://imgur.com/gallery/sSN0CWP

Edited February 13, 2023 by deak
Posted public imgur link

[Kurld]

@deak That's essentially what I have working now.  I didn't realize PF was still a thing (I last played much in 2016)  since most people seem to include parts that leverage the stock way of building them. I found the KRE yesterday.

The thrust transform on the tower is problematic (way too far off the Y axis compared to the expected CoM for the Soyuz underneath it).  This makes pad aborts problematic because the escaping vehicle never gains enough altitude to deploy chutes in time.  

I'm fairly ignorant of the technical details about the LES in real-world (burn times, mass and TWR for various components, wet/dry CoM, etc).  It looks like it might have some kind of active thrust vectoring to help steer the thing away from the LV and into a certain trajectory.  The shroud is a separate animal. I'm not having much luck coming up with any documentation (in English, anyway).

Making mods really gets in the way of actually playing the game, but I could not resist the challenge and loaded up Blender again this morning to see if I might tweak the thrust transform to be less heavy-handed. 

[septemberWaves]

8 hours ago, Kurld said:

@deak That's essentially what I have working now.  I didn't realize PF was still a thing (I last played much in 2016)  since most people seem to include parts that leverage the stock way of building them. I found the KRE yesterday.

The thrust transform on the tower is problematic (way too far off the Y axis compared to the expected CoM for the Soyuz underneath it).  This makes pad aborts problematic because the escaping vehicle never gains enough altitude to deploy chutes in time.  

I'm fairly ignorant of the technical details about the LES in real-world (burn times, mass and TWR for various components, wet/dry CoM, etc).  It looks like it might have some kind of active thrust vectoring to help steer the thing away from the LV and into a certain trajectory.  The shroud is a separate animal. I'm not having much luck coming up with any documentation (in English, anyway).

Making mods really gets in the way of actually playing the game, but I could not resist the challenge and loaded up Blender again this morning to see if I might tweak the thrust transform to be less heavy-handed. 

Active thrust vectoring makes a lot of sense. I think that's quite common on launch escape towers - I'm fairly sure it's done on Orion too, for example. If you do implement thrust vectoring, it probably makes sense for it to use RCS controls.

[Kurld]

I may be conflating it with what I read about Orion a while back.

I've got something rudimentary working but I can't seem to upload the video of it to imgur for some reason.  Is there some size or time limit?

[Kurld]

Well since I can't seem to post a vid here are some screen captures.

Here Jeb sits waiting for somebody to light the candles.

[Kurld]

BLAST OFF!   Wait!  WHAT?!!

I changed the angle on the tower thrustTransform from ~ 5 degrees off centerline to about .3 of a degree to keep it from flipping all over the place.  It has more solid fuel which helps with the CoM and the grid fins work very well to keep it oriented prograde.  The burn is probably a little long compared to what the tower motor provides in real life.  I have no data, but suspect that the tower probably burns just long and hard enough to yank it off and away from the rocket.  I think I've seen in pictures there are some smaller nozzles/motors that same cluster yaw/pitch it out of the way.

The majority of the tower (the part below the rings) is presumeably where all the propellant is stored for the 4 nozzles that are down around the base, and I think these provide the vast majority of thrust.  Enough to pull the real MS-10 quite far from the exploding rocket.

I just added some small seperatron-type things there to help move things along as you will see in a later shot.

Crusing along..  sure is quiet...

15 seconds after abort (I don't have a figure for real life) the LES carries the shroud and the orbital capsule away from the descent capsule.

A few seconds later, a lot of stuff happens.  Well two things.

[Kurld]

It's got plenty of umph now:

The chute is kind of puny.  I have it tuned for 25m/s, but it seemed to be moving a bit faster than that.  Luckily, the retros fire and slow it down enough to get Jeb to his pancake breakfast. 

I don't know how fast these things move in real life, but hitting the solid ground at any speed is probably not much fun.

[Kurld]

All this was managed by parts from the SmartParts mod:  a couple of timers and an altitude trigger.  After I hit the ABORT button, I didn't have to touch anything except F1 to take screenshots.

If I get more time to spend on this, I'll try to model a proper shroud and maybe work out a way to manage the various escape motors more like it works in real life.  I wrote a plugin to manage all the multiple rocket engines for the Mercury/Apollo spacecrafts in the PEBKAC and BDB mods, but I think I will probably try to do it as a kOS script this time.

[septemberWaves]

@Kurld If you do happen to continue with this launch escape system project and make a proper shroud, I'd like to request the inclusion of a choice between a 1.875m base and a 1.5m base to the shroud, to allow the option of using the system with the optional Soyuz rocket 1.5m upper diameter patch.