[1.12.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [26.0][18.12.2023][Soyuz Revamp Again]

[Beale]

@Tyko yeah the TKS is an odd beast, it is easier if you just see it as two separate docked craft.

The large cylinder section with radial tanks is the "Functional Cargo Block", it flies in the direction of the large rear module (can right click control from here).

The capsule and tower would be staged when you want to go home, and fly independently.

In total on orbit you should have around 1,000m/s of DV

Edited April 22, 2018 by Beale

[Beale]

GitHub

The last upload before full release probably. The VA control probe now has a top node, with fairing to 0.625m, so you can use it for a few little new things.

 

[Beale]

[Beale]

[Beale]

Github

[DGatsby]

Beale, your D2 was great! A fantastic little interpretation of the spacecraft. 

 

[TheRedTom]

13 hours ago, Beale said:

~Snip~

 

зенитʙᴏʏᴇ

[woeller]

LKO wobble test.

 

[betaking]

at first, I thought "say shouldn't this be something like 1.875m"... then I thought "well no, look at the actual diameter of a Soyuz capsule" (something like 2.7m IRL), "clearly a 1.25m Soyuz is more accurate to scale", yet that would place it in the same diameter as a mercury-like capsule (IRL Mercury was something like 1.9m in diameter).. and kind of creates a clown-car scenario when you look at the size of a kerbal's head.

Then there's "Making History" with its 1.875m-R7 (yet it's got no stock alike Soyuz-style capsule despite having 2 Voskhod (the 3-crew and 2- crew versions), and a Vostok)... Perhaps they're saving that for another expansion 

Overwhelming amounts of choice and I haven't even tried experimenting with things like Tweakscale.

Thank you for making/creating these parts.

[Derb]

5 hours ago, woeller said:

LKO wobble test.

From what mod are those giant solar panels?

[Barzon]

It looks like HabTech, but I thought that didn't work in 1.4.2

[Beale]

44 minutes ago, betaking said:

at first, I thought "say shouldn't this be something like 1.875m"... then I thought "well no, look at the actual diameter of a Soyuz capsule" (something like 2.7m IRL), "clearly a 1.25m Soyuz is more accurate to scale", yet that would place it in the same diameter as a mercury-like capsule (IRL Mercury was something like 1.9m in diameter).. and kind of creates a clown-car scenario when you look at the size of a kerbal's head.

Then there's "Making History" with its 1.875m-R7 (yet it's got no stock alike Soyuz-style capsule despite having 2 Voskhod (the 3-crew and 2- crew versions), and a Vostok)... Perhaps they're saving that for another expansion 

Overwhelming amounts of choice and I haven't even tried experimenting with things like Tweakscale.

Thank you for making/creating these parts.

Minor correction, you have a few of the numbers wrong - the Soyuz capsule IRL is not 2.7m, but quite a bit smaller at 2.17m This works out at around 1.3m in KSP scale (So 1.25m is a pretty good fit). And similar to Mercury diameter is not even too far off. 2.7m is the diameter of the skirt, at the bottom of the Soyuz's service compartment.

I have had a few comments like this since Making History,  to be honest, the parts in that expansion are just badly mis-scaled (Compare the Vostok to Apollo), they are 80% of IRL scale, which is just way overpowered for KSP.

(Don't mean to sound defensive here btw, I have just had a few of these misconceptions spread around).  

Just a fun example:

Edited April 23, 2018 by Beale

[Tyko]

1 hour ago, betaking said:

at first, I thought "say shouldn't this be something like 1.875m"... then I thought "well no, look at the actual diameter of a Soyuz capsule" (something like 2.7m IRL), "clearly a 1.25m Soyuz is more accurate to scale", yet that would place it in the same diameter as a mercury-like capsule (IRL Mercury was something like 1.9m in diameter).. and kind of creates a clown-car scenario when you look at the size of a kerbal's head.

Then there's "Making History" with its 1.875m-R7 (yet it's got no stock alike Soyuz-style capsule despite having 2 Voskhod (the 3-crew and 2- crew versions), and a Vostok)... Perhaps they're saving that for another expansion 

Overwhelming amounts of choice and I haven't even tried experimenting with things like Tweakscale.

Thank you for making/creating these parts.

I had the same concerns. Using the Stock versions of Mercury and Gemini and comparing them to the real thing I found that the scaling, while not entirely consistent, came out in the 60-65% range. It the same scaling is applied to the Soyuz descent capsule it comes out to be about 1.75 meters or 1.4x the scaling used in Tantares.  this is wrong..I was looking at the wrong measurement. I still like the larger size though for my personal use.

I just wrote a MM config that scales the Soyuz components up to 1.4x and it works like a charm. The service modules got bigger, so I tweaked the fuel capacities, which increased weight, so I then tweaked the engine thrust. 

This makes the whole Soyuz bigger and not so "clown car-ish"    Even though IRL they're really packed in.

The final config works really well and still feels balanced. You're welcome to play with the config I built and see if it makes sense for you...

DISCLAIMER: Tantares as designed is closer to IRL, but this scaling works well in my game.

Spoiler

@PART[Tantares_Crew_1|Tantares_Crew_2|Tantares_Decoupler_1|Tantares_Engine_1|Tantares_Engine_2|Tantares_Heatshield_1|Tantares_Parachute_1|Tantares_Orbital_1|Tantares_Habitation_1|Virgo_Engine_1]:NEEDS[Tantares]:AFTER[Tantares]

{
    @rescaleFactor = 1.4
}

@PART[Tantares_Engine_1]:NEEDS[Tantares]:AFTER[Tantares]
{
    @MODULE[ModuleEnginesFX]
    {
        @maxThrust = 45
    }
    
    @RESOURCE[LiquidFuel]
    {
        @amount = 270
        @maxAmount = 270
    }

    @RESOURCE[Oxidizer]
    {
        @amount = 330
        @maxAmount = 330
    }

    @RESOURCE[MonoPropellant]
    {
        @amount = 15
        @maxAmount = 30
    }
}

@PART[Tantares_Engine_2]:NEEDS[Tantares]:AFTER[Tantares]
{
    @MODULE[ModuleEnginesFX]
    {
        @maxThrust = 40
    }
    
    @RESOURCE[MonoPropellant]
    {
        @amount = 420
        @maxAmount = 420
    }
}

@PART[Virgo_Engine_1]:NEEDS[Tantares]:AFTER[Tantares]
{

    @MODULE[ModuleEnginesFX]
    {
        @maxThrust = 65
    }
    
    @RESOURCE[LiquidFuel]
    {
        @amount = 360
        @maxAmount = 360
    }

    @RESOURCE[Oxidizer]
    {
        @amount = 440
        @maxAmount = 440
    }

    @RESOURCE[MonoPropellant]
    {
        @amount = 15
        @maxAmount = 30
    }
}
 

 

Edited April 23, 2018 by Tyko

[Beale]

8 minutes ago, Tyko said:

I had the same concerns. Using the Stock versions of Mercury and Gemini and comparing them to the real thing I found that the scaling, while not entirely consistent, came out in the 60-65% range. It the same scaling is applied to the Soyuz descent capsule it comes out to be about 1.75 meters or 1.4x the scaling used in Tantares.

From there I just wrote a MM config that scales the Soyuz components up to 1.4x and it works like a charm. The service modules got bigger, so I tweaked the fuel capacities, which increased weight, so I then tweaked the engine thrust. 

This makes the whole Soyuz bigger and not so "clown car-ish"    Even though IRL they're really packed in.

The final config works really well and still feels balanced. You're welcome to play with the config I built and see if it makes sense for you...

  Reveal hidden contents

@PART[Tantares_Crew_1|Tantares_Crew_2|Tantares_Decoupler_1|Tantares_Engine_1|Tantares_Engine_2|Tantares_Heatshield_1|Tantares_Parachute_1|Tantares_Orbital_1|Tantares_Habitation_1|Virgo_Engine_1]:NEEDS[Tantares]:AFTER[Tantares]

{
    @rescaleFactor = 1.4
}

@PART[Tantares_Engine_1]:NEEDS[Tantares]:AFTER[Tantares]
{
    @MODULE[ModuleEnginesFX]
    {
        @maxThrust = 45
    }
    
    @RESOURCE[LiquidFuel]
    {
        @amount = 270
        @maxAmount = 270
    }

    @RESOURCE[Oxidizer]
    {
        @amount = 330
        @maxAmount = 330
    }

    @RESOURCE[MonoPropellant]
    {
        @amount = 15
        @maxAmount = 30
    }
}

@PART[Tantares_Engine_2]:NEEDS[Tantares]:AFTER[Tantares]
{
    @MODULE[ModuleEnginesFX]
    {
        @maxThrust = 40
    }
    
    @RESOURCE[MonoPropellant]
    {
        @amount = 420
        @maxAmount = 420
    }
}

@PART[Virgo_Engine_1]:NEEDS[Tantares]:AFTER[Tantares]
{

    @MODULE[ModuleEnginesFX]
    {
        @maxThrust = 65
    }
    
    @RESOURCE[LiquidFuel]
    {
        @amount = 360
        @maxAmount = 360
    }

    @RESOURCE[Oxidizer]
    {
        @amount = 440
        @maxAmount = 440
    }

    @RESOURCE[MonoPropellant]
    {
        @amount = 15
        @maxAmount = 30
    }
}
 

 

Nope, again you're basing that on the 2.7m skirt size and not the DM size. The capsule really should be that small.

Edit: of course you are free to playhow you want though. Cool little patch.

Edited April 23, 2018 by Beale

[Tyko]

2 minutes ago, Beale said:

Nope, again you're basing that on the 2.7m skirt size and not the DM size. The capsule really should be that small.

Edit: of course you are free to playhow you want though.

Yep, you're right ... I was looking at the 2.7m bottom. Crap, they're really packed in there.  

I figured you'd done your research because the entire mod feels so right. I do like the 1.4x for my "make believe" space program because it just looks closer to what I'd think 3 kerbals need  

[Beale]

Just now, Tyko said:

Yep, you're right ... I was looking at the 2.7m bottom. Crap, they're really packed in there.  

I figured you'd done your research because the entire mod feels so right. I do like the 1.4x for my "make believe" space program because it just looks closer to what I'd think 3 kerbals need  

That's cool man, a bigger Soyuz is a neat thing to have. (And of course Zarya & Big Soyuz is still in the pipeline ).

[Barzon]

@Beale could I use the .cfg for your soyuz capsule and SM?

[Beale]

1 hour ago, Barzon Kerman said:

@Beale could I use the .cfg for your soyuz capsule and SM?

Yes of course  

[woeller]

17 hours ago, Derb said:

From what mod are those giant solar panels?

 

17 hours ago, Barzon Kerman said:

It looks like HabTech, but I thought that didn't work in 1.4.2

It is HabTech and since it's just a part mod, it works in 1.4.2

The only thing that does not work 100% is the animation when retracting the solar panels.

 

Edited April 24, 2018 by woeller

[Barzon]

Is the _Soyuz_Crew_1.cfg the one with 2 kerbal capacity?

[Beale]

25 minutes ago, Barzon Kerman said:

Is the _Soyuz_Crew_1.cfg the one with 2 kerbal capacity?

The other way around, in the config you can check the crew capacity line.

[Barzon]

Thanks!

[tjsnh]

On 4/20/2018 at 2:01 PM, Beale said:

Yes please!!!

I always have to throw some RCS nozzles up top between the LFR exhaust nozzles and it always comes out looking terrible lol

[golkaidakhaana]

Beale, any chance of improving the fairings? When building them, they're "sticky", I can't right-click to delete them 99% of the time and sometimes they don't autocomplete around parts that they did a second ago.

[TK-313]

4 hours ago, sslaptnhablhat said:

Beale, any chance of improving the fairings? When building them, they're "sticky", I can't right-click to delete them 99% of the time and sometimes they don't autocomplete around parts that they did a second ago.

Just to make sure, do you right-click the fairing base or the fairing itself? Because only the fairing bases are clickable, just like the stock ones