[1.12.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [26.0][18.12.2023][Soyuz Revamp Again]

[MK3424]

That's a great idea! Maybe make a green Tantares 2-seater and a gray one - 3-seater. Although, the orbital module should have a green alternative too. Oh, maybe a gray one with a docking window/lights like the TMA and green one like early Soyuzes.

You could use firespitter to switch between textures.

[spacecookie]

What about a black Soyuz, as a TMA mockup ?

[genesis216]

Which parts are missing? If you have all the spacecraft parts but lack the parts for the rockets, you probably don't have Tantares LV installed. Make sure to download that from the front page.

1. I have them both installed. 2. A little of everything.

[Niemand303]

You could use firespitter to switch between textures.

I think you may miss the point. Firespitter can't switch between part modules in that way so green Soyuz has two seats and gray one has three. That way you have two different configurations, visually and by performance.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Niemand303

[MK3424]

I think you don't get the point. Firespitter can't switch between part modules in that way so green Soyuz has two seats and gray one has three. That way you have two different configurations, visually and by performance.

Yeah, we can switch between engine configurations, but not partmodule configurations.... too bad.

[Niemand303]

Yeah, we can switch between engine configurations, but not partmodule configurations.... too bad.

Sorry, I've understood it sounded too rude. I think that way we can use both alternative and default textures in "main" mode, by providing choice between early Soyuz and later one.

[tjsnh]

That's a great idea! Maybe make a green Tantares 2-seater and a gray one - 3-seater. Although, the orbital module should have a green alternative too. Oh, maybe a gray one with a docking window/lights like the TMA and green one like early Soyuzes.

This is what I currently do actually.

I use the VA 3-seat IVA for the grey soyuz (which I made 3 seat), which is placed farther up the tech tree. I also "nerfed" the green one significantly (heavy, expensive, low battery and mono, etc), making it more of a "zond".

[taniel0401]

Couldn't the IVA be a bit bigger so it could just fit 3 Kerbals? Aslo, Beale, maybe try to move the middle seat up on the rear panel (to the center) and the window seats just close enoughfrom the wall to avoid clipping?

[Lucius]

Want to weigh in here and say:

The Tantares is not the Soyuz, its the Tantares. I personally like that it has its own style: It is a 2 seater pod.

If you want a 3 seater: Get HGR. Or use the 3 seater that came with the game. Or the other 3 seaters that come with Tantares.

As a 2-seater, the module fills a very specific gap in the game, which lacks a 2-seater module. Its also lighter, cheaper, and smaller than for example the HGR 3 seater "soyuz" clone. This makes it ideal for a variety of missions and, in fact, makes it a perfect little "assorted space mission" capsule in much the same way the soyuz is, as its so light and cheap and small. Just compare the size of the HGR soyuz that seats 3 and the Tantares soyuz that seats 2.

On top of which, if you really want to take 3 people, just assemble a typical soyuz craft with an orbital habitation module on top that holds the third person. They may not be able to re-enter, but like many soyuz missions you might be dropping kerbals off at space stations or delivering them to other bases or crafts. It encourages that kind of outward thinking.

In my PERSONAL opinion, there are so many options for 3-man capsules already, don't change the Tanta into a 3-seater, it either means you'l have to change the stats that make it so favourable, or else you'll make it feel truly hacky.

[Beale]

What about 1.875m diameter?

There seems a lot of problems/discussion revolving around 1.25m vs 2.5m, so why not just use 1.875m?

2 simple adapters would be enough and it would solve many size issues.

HTV do you mean? That might be a good size for it!

With regards to having two different parts, would it be possible to add some colored highlights onto the three-man pod?

There is plenty of space on the Soyuz sheet, but - see below -

What about a black Soyuz, as a TMA mockup ?

Can do!

1. I have them both installed. 2. A little of everything.

Screenshot of GameData folder?

Want to weigh in here and say:

The Tantares is not the Soyuz, its the Tantares. I personally like that it has its own style: It is a 2 seater pod.

If you want a 3 seater: Get HGR. Or use the 3 seater that came with the game. Or the other 3 seaters that come with Tantares.

As a 2-seater, the module fills a very specific gap in the game, which lacks a 2-seater module. Its also lighter, cheaper, and smaller than for example the HGR 3 seater "soyuz" clone. This makes it ideal for a variety of missions and, in fact, makes it a perfect little "assorted space mission" capsule in much the same way the soyuz is, as its so light and cheap and small. Just compare the size of the HGR soyuz that seats 3 and the Tantares soyuz that seats 2.

On top of which, if you really want to take 3 people, just assemble a typical soyuz craft with an orbital habitation module on top that holds the third person. They may not be able to re-enter, but like many soyuz missions you might be dropping kerbals off at space stations or delivering them to other bases or crafts. It encourages that kind of outward thinking.

In my PERSONAL opinion, there are so many options for 3-man capsules already, don't change the Tanta into a 3-seater, it either means you'l have to change the stats that make it so favourable, or else you'll make it feel truly hacky.

Not to ignore all the discussion on 3-seater (I've read all the posts, agree and disagree on some things), but I think this is pretty much it.

There isn't... quite enough space for a third Kerbal. When you view it from outside it makes a lot more sense.

I think to maintain suspension of disbelief (Imagine they have helmets roomed in there) it should be a 2-seater.

Raduga capsule would be nice, but the point is that it is stored inside the ship. If you cole make a kind of a "rack" for it, that would be nice, but it won't play much role in stock game (apart from returning experiments from Kerbin too).

Good point.

Hmmm, Progress heatshield?

Would be a nice, fun, small project.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Beale

[Niemand303]

Good point.

Hmmm, Progress heatshield?

Would be a nice, fun, small project.

I have an idea on capsule, I need to get home to draw you a pic, the main idea is to make a special "scientific" Hamal Orbital, with a 0.625 hole, where return capsule and its chute (standard Soyuz one with decoupler) are placed.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Niemand303

[Beale]

I have an idea on capsule, I need to get home to draw you a pic, the main idea is to make a special "scientific" Hamal Orbital, with a 0.625 hole, where return capsule and its chute (standard Soyuz one with decoupler) are placed.

That would be swell!

Also, I could make a "modern" Progress, unlike the current 1970's model. It would be basically the Soyuz DM without windows or door, with a heatshield.

A nice science vehicle eh?

[VenomousRequiem]

Is there any way we could get a Zenit rocket? Those always sounded pretty cool.

[Beale]

Is there any way we could get a Zenit rocket? Those always sounded pretty cool.

You can have one right now! Seek out AB launchers, for stockalike Zenit I made

[VenomousRequiem]

Oh, wow, actually that looks amazing! Thanks. :3

- - - Updated - - -

You should talk to everyone and see if you can just adopt Bloeting Aerospace, OMSK, and AB Lanchers all into Tantares so that they're all in one pack. It'd be the best mod in the world!

[Lucius]

Hey all,

SO: This is Tantares Station Science/TAC LS overhaul FIRST ALPHA ATTEMPT, so feel free to take a swing at the balance and usefulness of it, and give feedback PLEASE.

*******REQUIRES FIRESPITTER, STATION SCIENCE, and TAC LIFE SUPPORT**********************

*******PLEASE DON'T BUG BEALE IF THEY AREN'T IDEAL (heh). Write it here or PM me************

All i have really graced is the Salyut, TKS, and Cygnus vessels.

ALL LABS/ETC ARE HALF AS EFFECTIVE AS THEIR COUNTERPARTS, BUT MUCH LIGHTER

It works as follows:

Cygnus - now has several MM clones that perform different missions. You can send up any one of the six Station Science experiments individually with the Cygnus, or there is a seventh variant USING FIRESPITTER that has the option to swap between life support necessities, fuel, monoprop/elec, and kibbal. The original cygnus module still exists as well

SALYUT - now the largest tubes, the V-C1s, are capable of being spectrometers or cyclometrons. Their size really suited the feel. This means if you want to do some SERIOUS station science, you have a reason to haul a heavy-ass station element into space rather than just an empty tube that looks nice. The V-C2s now function as laboratories, zoology bay, or simply a very large crew habitat for 4 with accompanying life storage. I figure if you're going to haul one of those into space, it better be worth it. The V-C3s, the smallest tubes, now serve as either a 2 man habitat, or as a "life support" hub with large amounts of electricity, and all the recyclers for oxygen and water that one would expect. THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE LIFE SUPPORT SUPPLIES, so make sure you include them or you'll have a bad time.

TKS - The Spektre module now has a double that is a spectrometer. There is no reason, just... it makes me laugh every time. The TK-OB05A, the smaller TKS tube, now functions like the V-C3, as either a small habitat or a life support recycler and power source. The TK-OB10A, the larger tube, is now a zoology bay and laboratory just like the V-C2.

ISSUES/CONCERNS/FUTURE GOALS:

- There is no real "power hub", it feels, though you can easily chain a few crew support hubs together and has massive amounts of power. I am not sure how i feel about this, as on the one hand i really like the idea of forcing you to slap batteries or the outside of the station and make it into a big ugly mess for a true Salyut/MIR feeling. However, if you want to assemble a nice balanced one, feel free and i'll add it.

- SPEAKING OF BALANCE - This is far from balanced. I have increased the prices to each module QUITE a bit. I *would* increase them more but i don't want them to be insanely prohibitive. I have placed them in tech tree locations where i feel they are fairly accessible. I would not like to see these so far down the tech tree that there's no point in having them as you don't need science anymore. Generally they line up with either where the Tantares pieces would be accessible anyways, or where the SS modules would be anyways. However i am all ears about balance issues!

- I have been insanely generous with the life support available, on the few parts i have touched. The way i see it, most stations were well supplied for up to 3 months, there's no reason to be sending up a supply ship a week just to keep your Station Science modules going. How annoying does it get to warp for 3 minutes, slow down, send a new supply ship up, and then warp for 3 minutes again.

- FUTURE GOAL - Different textures for the Cygnus modules depending on what they are carrying.

FUTURE GOAL - Maybe integrate Nehemiah's station experiments, they are pretty Soviet in their style. But they are largely IVA which i don't even touch...

NOW, IF YOU READ THROUGH ALL THAT, HERE IS THE LINK FOR TESTING: Tantares SS/TLS Overhaul

Edited March 31, 2015 by Lucius

[Beale]

Oh, wow, actually that looks amazing! Thanks. :3

- - - Updated - - -

You should talk to everyone and see if you can just adopt Bloeting Aerospace, OMSK, and AB Lanchers all into Tantares so that they're all in one pack. It'd be the best mod in the world!

Your welcome.

About the "mega-pack", not going to happen, sorry

Hey all,

SO: This is Tantares Station Science/TAC LS overhaul. Kind of.

*******REQUIRES FIRESPITTER, STATION SCIENCE, and TAC LIFE SUPPORT**********************

*******PLEASE DON'T BUG BEALE IF THEY AREN'T IDEAL (heh). Write it here or PM me************

All i have really graced is the Salyut, TKS, and Cygnus vessels.

ALL LABS/ETC ARE HALF AS EFFECTIVE AS THEIR COUNTERPARTS, BUT MUCH LIGHTER

It works as follows:

Cygnus - now has several MM clones that perform different missions. You can send up any one of the six Station Science experiments individually with the Cygnus, or there is a seventh variant USING FIRESPITTER that has the option to swap between life support necessities, fuel, monoprop/elec, and kibbal. The original cygnus module still exists as well

SALYUT - now the largest tubes, the V-C1s, are capable of being spectrometers or cyclometrons. Their size really suited the feel. This means if you want to do some SERIOUS station science, you have a reason to haul a heavy-ass station element into space rather than just an empty tube that looks nice. The V-C2s now function as laboratories, zoology bay, or simply a very large crew habitat for 4 with accompanying life storage. I figure if you're going to haul one of those into space, it better be worth it. The V-C3s, the smallest tubes, now serve as either a 2 man habitat, or as a "life support" hub with large amounts of electricity, and all the recyclers for oxygen and water that one would expect. THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE LIFE SUPPORT SUPPLIES, so make sure you include them or you'll have a bad time.

TKS - The Spektre module now has a double that is a spectrometer. There is no reason, just... it makes me laugh every time. The TK-OB05A, the smaller TKS tube, now functions like the V-C3, as either a small habitat or a life support recycler and power source. The TK-OB10A, the larger tube, is now a zoology bay and laboratory just like the V-C2.

ISSUES/CONCERNS/FUTURE GOALS:

- There is no real "power hub", it feels, though you can easily chain a few crew support hubs together and has massive amounts of power. I am not sure how i feel about this, as on the one hand i really like the idea of forcing you to slap batteries or the outside of the station and make it into a big ugly mess for a true Salyut/MIR feeling. However, if you want to assemble a nice balanced one, feel free and i'll add it.

- SPEAKING OF BALANCE - This is far from balanced. I have increased the prices to each module QUITE a bit. I *would* increase them more but i don't want them to be insanely prohibitive. I have placed them in tech tree locations where i feel they are fairly accessible. I would not like to see these so far down the tech tree that there's no point in having them as you don't need science anymore. Generally they line up with either where the Tantares pieces would be accessible anyways, or where the SS modules would be anyways. However i am all ears about balance issues!

- I have been insanely generous with the life support available, on the few parts i have touched. The way i see it, most stations were well supplied for up to 3 months, there's no reason to be sending up a supply ship a week just to keep your Station Science modules going. How annoying does it get to warp for 3 minutes, slow down, send a new supply ship up, and then warp for 3 minutes again.

- FUTURE GOAL - Different textures for the Cygnus modules depending on what they are carrying.

NOW, IF YOU READ THROUGH ALL THAT, HERE IS THE LINK FOR TESTING: Tantares SS/TLS Overhaul

Hella cool! Thanks for your work.

Linked on front page #5766

Edited March 31, 2015 by Beale

[VenomousRequiem]

Oh well, I can just get them all individually. x3

[Lucius]

Hella cool! Thanks for your work.

Thank YOU for the work, i love the pack, just wanted to give it more *reach*. Thanks for all the hard work almighty loaf.

Also the MM file is fairly smoothly crafted with dependancies so, if you want to add it to your pack directly at any point, feel free, i don't think it should cause any problems *for people without the mods.*

[tg626]

I think the LK capsule (can) has node issues. Anything attached gets clipped considerably into the mesh. Maybe it has the old node positions for the old smaller mesh?

Also, the IVA uses the same "camera" for both kerbals... Maybe that was intentional?

Edited March 31, 2015 by tg626

[Tjabo]

Hey all,

SO: This is Tantares Station Science/TAC LS overhaul FIRST ALPHA ATTEMPT, so feel free to take a swing at the balance and usefulness of it, and give feedback PLEASE.

*******REQUIRES FIRESPITTER, STATION SCIENCE, and TAC LIFE SUPPORT**********************

*******PLEASE DON'T BUG BEALE IF THEY AREN'T IDEAL (heh). Write it here or PM me************

All i have really graced is the Salyut, TKS, and Cygnus vessels.

ALL LABS/ETC ARE HALF AS EFFECTIVE AS THEIR COUNTERPARTS, BUT MUCH LIGHTER

It works as follows:

Cygnus - now has several MM clones that perform different missions. You can send up any one of the six Station Science experiments individually with the Cygnus, or there is a seventh variant USING FIRESPITTER that has the option to swap between life support necessities, fuel, monoprop/elec, and kibbal. The original cygnus module still exists as well

SALYUT - now the largest tubes, the V-C1s, are capable of being spectrometers or cyclometrons. Their size really suited the feel. This means if you want to do some SERIOUS station science, you have a reason to haul a heavy-ass station element into space rather than just an empty tube that looks nice. The V-C2s now function as laboratories, zoology bay, or simply a very large crew habitat for 4 with accompanying life storage. I figure if you're going to haul one of those into space, it better be worth it. The V-C3s, the smallest tubes, now serve as either a 2 man habitat, or as a "life support" hub with large amounts of electricity, and all the recyclers for oxygen and water that one would expect. THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE LIFE SUPPORT SUPPLIES, so make sure you include them or you'll have a bad time.

TKS - The Spektre module now has a double that is a spectrometer. There is no reason, just... it makes me laugh every time. The TK-OB05A, the smaller TKS tube, now functions like the V-C3, as either a small habitat or a life support recycler and power source. The TK-OB10A, the larger tube, is now a zoology bay and laboratory just like the V-C2.

ISSUES/CONCERNS/FUTURE GOALS:

- There is no real "power hub", it feels, though you can easily chain a few crew support hubs together and has massive amounts of power. I am not sure how i feel about this, as on the one hand i really like the idea of forcing you to slap batteries or the outside of the station and make it into a big ugly mess for a true Salyut/MIR feeling. However, if you want to assemble a nice balanced one, feel free and i'll add it.

- SPEAKING OF BALANCE - This is far from balanced. I have increased the prices to each module QUITE a bit. I *would* increase them more but i don't want them to be insanely prohibitive. I have placed them in tech tree locations where i feel they are fairly accessible. I would not like to see these so far down the tech tree that there's no point in having them as you don't need science anymore. Generally they line up with either where the Tantares pieces would be accessible anyways, or where the SS modules would be anyways. However i am all ears about balance issues!

- I have been insanely generous with the life support available, on the few parts i have touched. The way i see it, most stations were well supplied for up to 3 months, there's no reason to be sending up a supply ship a week just to keep your Station Science modules going. How annoying does it get to warp for 3 minutes, slow down, send a new supply ship up, and then warp for 3 minutes again.

- FUTURE GOAL - Different textures for the Cygnus modules depending on what they are carrying.

FUTURE GOAL - Maybe integrate Nehemiah's station experiments, they are pretty Soviet in their style. But they are largely IVA which i don't even touch...

NOW, IF YOU READ THROUGH ALL THAT, HERE IS THE LINK FOR TESTING: Tantares SS/TLS Overhaul

Awesome! As a user of both TAC and Station Science this will be really interesting to try out.

[Lucius]

Hope you enjoy!

The idea is that really... you have sort of modular stations. You can choose to build a small salyut-ish station, just a small 2 man life support module, and a laboratory, and fly experiments to it. Or with the same sized parts, you could instead build a larger hub for 4 people and have recyclers. Or you can add one extra piece and house 2 people, a lab, and a cyclometer. Or make it just the cyclometer and a large hab and recyclers.

Now make a dozen different variations of these small hubs, one with a spectrometer, one with life support heavy, one with a lab, one with a zoo bay and one with a cyclo, and merge them all together on a central hub, and you have a REAL MIR. I think you'll find the options you have in hacking stuff together is pretty cool!

Let me know what you like/dislike when you do give it a shot.

[Beale]

Also the MM file is fairly smoothly crafted with dependancies so, if you want to add it to your pack directly at any point, feel free, i don't think it should cause any problems *for people without the mods.*

Thanks, I'll take a closer look, maybe I can incorporate this.

I think the LK capsule (can) has node issues. Anything attached gets clipped considerably into the mesh. Maybe it has the old node positions for the old smaller mesh?

Also, the IVA uses the same "camera" for both kerbals... Maybe that was intentional?

Confirmed! I didn't notice this as I was using a pre-made LK craft to test the fix for the scaling bug.

I've just uploaded a new version with this bug fixed (the nodes).

The camera, didn't notice that! I'll fix some point

[taniel0401]

Not to ignore all the discussion on 3-seater (I've read all the posts, agree and disagree on some things), but I think this is pretty much it.

There isn't... quite enough space for a third Kerbal. When you view it from outside it makes a lot more sense.

http://puu.sh/gWpnh/6a604430ef.jpg

I think to maintain suspension of disbelief (Imagine they have helmets roomed in there) it should be a 2-seater.

Kerbals should go on a diet

anywho...you've made your point with the 3 seater Soyuz.

No hard feelings anyone

How many kerbals will the PPTS fit? just wondering

[Niemand303]

I think one part gets really underapreciated but can provide a lot of fun. And this part is so awesome it propulsed my first mission to Eeloo I've ever pulled in my life and my first Kerbol SOI leaving. I love the Castor engine.

Probe itsels had 5 km/s dV, and no MechJeb for setting nodes (it is awful at interplanetary transfers, it proposed an 8 km/s burn instead of mine 5km/s three part burn with spare dV to leave Kerbol system).

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