Beale

[1.7.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [17.0][18/03/2019][Polyus!]

Soyuz Upper Stage Preferred Diameter.  

74 members have voted

  1. 2. 1.5m Diameter Parts in general? (Please elaborate with comment if you can)(Applies to Vostok spacecraft and Soyuz Rocket)



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I remember you were working on EVA handrails and control block revamps a while ago, and even longer ago (like, months ago), a DOS Zvezda reskin, how did those turn out?

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8 hours ago, Beale said:

Thanks you for mentioning this!

Yes I would love to see what you have, the cost on the older parts (in particular N1) is not great and needs improving.

No no no, lies, we just landed in the special place...

sjuZYs6.png

These are great! LCA Polyus?

Okay. Here's a comparison of the costs for a max-payload launch of the Tantares LV crafts. Stock BDB crafts (in blue) and interpretations of some BDB designs (in yellow) have also been included as a point of comparison. Some key takeaways:

-The N1 Rocket isn't "too" much more efficient than its American rivals, but it's definitely noticeable. Since it's a pure Kerolox vehicle, I'd expect the cost per ton to be closed to the Sarnus H02 or H03. If there was one part that was particularly eregious, it'd probably have to be Blok B.

-The proton rocket is highly overpriced. The dry cost of the first stage is $41,625, for a 2mN rocket. Compare this to the $13,000 for a 1.5mN Mainsail from squad. That doesn't even take into account TWR. The stage 2 Regn engine may also be a bit overpriced, but it's not as bad as the first stage.

-The Zenit rocket is basically free. Its 2mN engine only costs $2,600, and has a great TWR

EDIT: Comparing real-world Zenit & Proton, the Proton-K has LEO payload of 22.8T, while the Zenit-2 has a payload of 13.7mT.  Also, while the Zenit has the appropriate 1/4 thrust, the Proton is actually underthrusted from its 10.4mN. The 1st stage max thrust should be closer to 2.5mN. That would also help alleviate some of the perfomance issues mentioned earlier. 

 

hDafJ7e.png

 

Edited by Machinique
Adding information.

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9 hours ago, sslaptnhablhat said:

I remember you were working on EVA handrails and control block revamps a while ago, and even longer ago (like, months ago), a DOS Zvezda reskin, how did those turn out?

Sure, a lot of things come and go as experiments, but in a nutshell:

  • Handrails - Still on the way, I just need to find which are required (Angles, variants, etc).
  • Control block revamps, still underway! &)
  • DOS reskin, this might fall away a bit. I need to evaluate these skins to have Salyut 6/7 as well as Zvezda, it's a headache for sure...
9 hours ago, Machinique said:

Okay. Here's a comparison of the costs for a max-payload launch of the Tantares LV crafts. Stock BDB crafts (in blue) and interpretations of some BDB designs (in yellow) have also been included as a point of comparison. Some key takeaways:

-The N1 Rocket isn't "too" much more efficient than its American rivals, but it's definitely noticeable. Since it's a pure Kerolox vehicle, I'd expect the cost per ton to be closed to the Sarnus H02 or H03. If there was one part that was particularly eregious, it'd probably have to be Blok B.

-The proton rocket is highly overpriced. The dry cost of the first stage is $41,625, for a 2mN rocket. Compare this to the $13,000 for a 1.5mN Mainsail from squad. That doesn't even take into account TWR. The stage 2 Regn engine may also be a bit overpriced, but it's not as bad as the first stage.

-The Zenit rocket is basically free. Its 2mN engine only costs $2,600, and has a great TWR

EDIT: Comparing real-world Zenit & Proton, the Proton-K has LEO payload of 22.8T, while the Zenit-2 has a payload of 13.7mT.  Also, while the Zenit has the appropriate 1/4 thrust, the Proton is actually underthrusted from its 10.4mN. The 1st stage max thrust should be closer to 2.5mN. That would also help alleviate some of the perfomance issues mentioned earlier. 

 

hDafJ7e.png

 

I didn't realise these were so bad! Wow, I will look to fix these ASAP.

Many thanks for your analysis! 
Zenit in particular is shocking...

Edited by Beale

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Thank you as well 

I've also made some custom compatches for WBI's M.O.L.E. and some remotetech antennas. I still need to do some more testing and add more parta to those patches, but would you be interested in adding them? I assume that I would need to make a guthub request.

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1 hour ago, Machinique said:

Thank you as well 

I've also made some custom compatches for WBI's M.O.L.E. and some remotetech antennas. I still need to do some more testing and add more parta to those patches, but would you be interested in adding them? I assume that I would need to make a guthub request.

That would be really great!

If you are comfortable to make a GitHub request that's really cool and helps me a lot - but, if not no worries I can take the patches and integrate those myself.

Again, many thanks for the stats.

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For balancing I have created 3 functionally similar rockets from stock parts - which we can use as a guide to balance cost, sound good?
(Note: Where SSMEs are used, I would not make the Tantares engines so expensive, as they lack the gimballing).

Fake Proton
3*SSMEs on the first stage,
4*LVT-45 on the second stage,
Poodle on the third stage.

JT4r7VL.png

Fake Zenit
Mainsail on the first stage,
Poodle on the third stage.

AAA8ZMg.png

Fake N1
9x SSME on the first stage,
3x SSME on the second stage,
Skipper on the third stage,
2x LV909 on the fourth stage.

zMySrWZ.png

Of course these are rough guides, but give more sensible costs to all rockets involved.

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36 minutes ago, Beale said:

For balancing I have created 3 functionally similar rockets from stock parts - which we can use as a guide to balance cost, sound good?
(Note: Where SSMEs are used, I would not make the Tantares engines so expensive, as they lack the gimballing).

Fake Proton
3*SSMEs on the first stage,
4*LVT-45 on the second stage,
Poodle on the third stage.

JT4r7VL.png

Fake Zenit
Mainsail on the first stage,
Poodle on the third stage.

AAA8ZMg.png

Fake N1
9x SSME on the first stage,
3x SSME on the second stage,
Skipper on the third stage,
2x LV909 on the fourth stage.

zMySrWZ.png

Of course these are rough guides, but give more sensible costs to all rockets involved.

That seems like a fair method. I can help check as well tonight. I do want to note that I pulled most of the max payload weights from Kerbal Engineer's readouts, but i have validated those numbers throughout my current 2.5x career. In general, I find that it takes 4800 to 5000dv to get to orbit, and another 1350 to 1450 for the munar transfer burn. Those readouts tend to be accurate when there aren't any large ISP changes due to pressure.

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GitHub

Initla re-balance of costs, and some changes to thrust / mass. Thanks for the feedback!

X0ITzyl.png

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The no-window-special. This is the last crewed part for Polyus. Now to make the fuselage!

0ySDjfN.jpg
Z9lkycH.jpg
veiVBPk.jpg

Edited by Beale

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3 hours ago, Beale said:

GitHub

Initla re-balance of costs, and some changes to thrust / mass. Thanks for the feedback!

X0ITzyl.png

Those are the coolest landing legs ever!!! :) 

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Thanks for taking a look. The N1 changes look pretty good. The Zenit and Proton probably require more tinkering.

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1 minute ago, sslaptnhablhat said:

T-t-t-t-t-textures Unlimited?!

Not quite - this is the unity Standard shader, but something similar could be made with the new stock shader. 

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Both space programs decided to take their efforts in cooperation a step further by creating the Vega-Hokulani space station.

screenshot877.png?width=1123&height=702

screenshot869.png?width=1123&height=702

screenshot874.png?width=1123&height=702

Pretty sure the forums downgraded the size of these images, so if you want the full wallpaper sized images hmu ig lol

Edited by Jay The Amazing Toaster

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14 hours ago, Jay The Amazing Toaster said:

Both space programs decided to take their efforts in cooperation a step further by creating the Vega-Hokulani space station.

screenshot877.png?width=1123&height=702

screenshot869.png?width=1123&height=702

screenshot874.png?width=1123&height=702

Pretty sure the forums downgraded the size of these images, so if you want the full wallpaper sized images hmu ig lol

I always love this build, and the screenshots in particular are just beautiful! :wub:

I really like the over-exposure on the sunlit side, how is that - from mod or post-processing? 

 

Fuselage!

IV5ohSt.jpg
bGGY9S3.png

 

Lf6OvZc.png
11sekn3.png
WY3seIU.png
uHkkMX5.png
kJsUUPh.png
EcGQ9fs.jpg

The above craft is basically a shell, but the plan is you can fit out the interior with whatever you want.
The above craft is also... totally uncontrollable. The Polyus reaction systems are on the way.

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Github

Sample craft.

Because I am aware the Energia can be a bit of a pain to handle, and is also quite overpowered for X1 Kerbin, it's worth putting forward that below is a pretty nice way to launch Polyus, and a lot easier to handle!
Still a few bugs I'm aware of:

  • Wrong categories for fuselage.
  • Fuselage missing interior nodes.

GAGr22C.png
SVXmbIf.png
QxBFNKT.png

Edited by Beale

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4 hours ago, Beale said:

The above craft is also... totally uncontrollable. The Polyus reaction systems are on the way.

Sounds about right for Polyus 

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6 hours ago, Beale said:

I always love this build, and the screenshots in particular are just beautiful! :wub:

I really like the over-exposure on the sunlit side, how is that - from mod or post-processing? 

1

Yup KS3P does the post-processing in game, really improving the overall look of gameplay and most importantly, screenshots!

screenshot118.png?width=1123&height=702
 

I've been using OrbitalPheonix's configs along with it.


 

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On 2/24/2019 at 11:07 PM, Jay The Amazing Toaster said:

Yup KS3P does the post-processing in game, really improving the overall look of gameplay and most importantly, screenshots!

screenshot118.png?width=1123&height=702

 

It works great, I must just tweak the settings, Many thanks!

And beautiful craft!

 

WIP for the side fuselage.
These are LFO tanks that can be used for the crafts attitude, or other things.

Yl1DYWc.png
w5TZaly.png
ld37fHn.png

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uwCJkyD.png
LaXezf6.jpg
eW9ZpbY.png
1HSkgYZ.jpg
shRi6Wr.jpg
nwy4Nle.png

The majority of parts(And most importantly, the big ones) all fit on one 2K sheet, so a recolour is probably an option

Edited by Beale

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