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[1.12.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [26.0][18.12.2023][Soyuz Revamp Again]

Beale

By Beale
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spacecookie

spacecookie

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The scale is a bit odd in general!

Perhaps the R1 should have been in a smaller size.

Or the zemiorka bigger, I maintain that 1.875m parts for her and the soyuz is a good compromise to get a " real life like " size compared to the MK2 pod and you gemini.

The new black and yellow ( hey you know what it is.. ) V-2 is absolutely stuning :)

http://www.chartgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/types-of-rockets1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/YvVuyn7.jpg

Edited by spacecookie
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_Augustus_

_Augustus_

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This is completely inappropriate to ask of Beale, or of any mod author for that matter. This is in very bad form.

Additionally, @Beale, you nailed the brick texture. Looks fantastic. I'll be glad to have something to loft the ATV to orbit with now! The .craft repository will one day be complete! As soon as I have my last final, and I can allow myself to load KSP back up onto my computer with a stable list of mods, It's all-hands to the .craft files. :)

I like his Ariane, and I didn't mean to be rude. I was a bit shocked when he released pics.
Beales one of the nicest guys on the forum, and augustus is acting out of line if he takes offence at having some crossed paths/competition AGAIN(see his previous attempt to take over maintenance of the bargain rockets mod only to get upset and quit when roverdude said he would do the same). If Beale wants to make an ariane 5 its the same reason he made the r7, or the photon, or the antares its because he has a payload for it (the ATV).
I guess you're right.

Also I got upset over BargainRockets because RoverDude and I don't exactly have a good relationship going on, he's not particularly nice to me sometimes. I'm still happy that he's adding resources to the stock game though.

This is kinda overstepping your bounds, you aren't the one that chooses what goes into Tantares.
I know, again I didn't mean to be rude.
Ariane looks amazing. I can't wait to fly it (plus more 3.75m engines are always fantastic!).

For the rest of y'all, any suggestions for more retextures I can make? I've got finals week, but after that I'm free, and I don't plan to be updating to 1.0 immediately so I know I'll keep mod compatibility for now.

The Ariane does look good. I'm unsure whether it looks "bricky" in real life, but Beale is doing a good job texturing.

Also, make a retexture for the Shenzhou! That darn thing is the most neglected spacecraft in this mod because it looks weird, especially when you have the green Soyuz.

Edited by _Augustus_
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Beale

Beale

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@Beale, you nailed the brick texture. Looks fantastic. I'll be glad to have something to loft the ATV to orbit with now! The .craft repository will one day be complete! As soon as I have my last final, and I can allow myself to load KSP back up onto my computer with a stable list of mods, It's all-hands to the .craft files. :)

Many thanks!

Very good to hear if you will want to put a craft together :)

A small addendum to the "Avrora", the ship itself and first expedition on a Pauk-P with the international crew: Jeb, Bill and Bob from Kerbal States and Abram, Iosif and Valentin from Kerbiet Union. Their goal was to test life support mechanisms from Thunder Aerospace and repairing a broken battery on the command module of the propulsion block.

http://imgur.com/a/DtA8N

Repair missions, my favourite :)

Are you using random failures (broken battery?).

Woah! Awesome space station part revamps' date=' Beale! I like the new additional one-crew part too. :D[/quote']

Many thanks! :)

I put a Soviet surprise in a very well known rocket, and I regret nothing!

http://imgur.com/a/g0hKQ

The battery failed on the third stage's J-2, but other than that the flight went mostly okay... Other than the fact that the two docking ports weren't compatible...

My gosh, I've been a busy bee lately when it comes to this game! I thought you'd be proud of all of monstrosities, this one included!http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/527262341743447783/1173B9814B469C525602681E3FD13CCDAB9B4858/It's like the ISS, combined with Salyut, combined with Mir!

Did you just...?

But, very nice missions, both!

I enjoy the ISS-alike kind of construction in the second, there's a Nauka in there! :)

Or the zemiorka bigger, I maintain that 1.875m parts for her and the soyuz is a good compromise to get a " real life like " size compared to the MK2 pod and you gemini.

The new black and yellow ( hey you know what it is.. ) V-2 is absolutely stuning :)

http://www.chartgeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/types-of-rockets1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/YvVuyn7.jpg

The pics are interesting and food for thought, many thanks :)

It does give me slight encouragement that the scale is correct to be honest, the Soyuz looks half size of Apollo and 0.75 size of Gemini ~ roughly correct eh?

Yeah true it is the V-2, no need to dance around the name.

Edit: Hmmm, no I should have taken a closer look. The Soyuz and Gemini are much the same size.

Given that is more argument for shrinking Gemini than growing Soyuz though?

The diagram is difficult, it is mixing orthographic and perspective views, though I trust it is mostly accurate.

Also, make a retexture for the Shenzhou! That darn thing is the most neglected spacecraft in this mod because it looks weird, especially when you have the green Soyuz.

You're not wrong, the Shenzou has ended up... er.. "shafted" ? It has become more of a Soyuz-A with the revamp rather than the Chinese vehicle. :)

It could use a white recolour.

(Along with it, the plans for a Tiangong parts have been lost down the sofa...).

Edited by Beale
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Niemand303

Niemand303

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Were all those fuel leaks from test flight or something else?

Excellent posting of an infrastructure mission

Repair missions, my favourite :)

Are you using random failures (broken battery?).

Thanks! I'm using DangIt with Entropy hardcore config set, so that I'll get a real challenge for complex missions. :3

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spacecookie

spacecookie

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Yeah true it is the V-2, no need to dance around the name.

Edit: Hmmm, no I should have taken a closer look. The Soyuz and Gemini are much the same size.

Given that is more argument for shrinking Gemini than growing Soyuz though?

The diagram is difficult, it is mixing orthographic and perspective views, though I trust it is mostly accurate.

Well, talking about soyuz and gemini dimensions isn't an easy thing, I made some researchs and here is what I found

It all started with those two same scaled kits of an R-7 soyuz and a gemini titan II http://spacemodels.nuxit.net/big30.jpg . For sure I was surprised of how small the titan was actually, then I looked for other comparisons and here we go with a vostok https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/36/08/06/36080601b0c886520e539a5e935709db.jpg ( you may notice that the mercury and the gemini reentry pod are nearly the same size ! ) . My following sources are from www.russianspaceweb.com which is truly the bible of the soviet space conquest, and http://www.braeunig.us one of the rare sites that gave me metric dimensions..

Gemini reentry pod : ( nosecone on )

Length: 3.4 m

Maximum diameter: 2.3 m

Habitable volume: 2.55 m3

Total mass: 1,982 kg

Soyuz reentry pod :

Length: 2.1 m

Maximum diameter : 2.7 m

Habitable volume : I got no informations for this as the soyuz interior was remained several times, but I do believe it's pretty much as spacy as a gemini for two cosmonauts with all the greeble and the chutes on.

Total mass: 2,900 kg

Giving a look to the R-7 dimensions here are two interesting drawings that I found on the wiki.

GPN-2002-000184.png

The R-7 soyuz is nearly 50meters tall for approximately 8 meters large with the first stage, and a diameter of 3.35m for the second one.

And here we go for the proton ( the picture is quite big, I prefer not to integrate it as it has (nearly) nothing to do with the tantares mod, not to flood :P

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Early_Proton-K_rocket_versions.jpg

In his tallest configuration ( mir / salyut ) the proton is 61 meters tall for 8 meters large to the first stage, engines on, the second stage got a diameter of 4.1 meters.

( The titan II had a diameter of 3.05m ).

To me, the gemini like and the soyuz like from your mod deserve to have their diameter switched, as well for the TLV, ahs the gemini reentry pod is just some centimeters taller in diameter http://www.friends-partners.org/mwade/graphics/m/mercgem.gif but clearly longer and stretched, his massive aspect compared to the mercury come from this strech, the nosecone and the service module.

Switching the TLV and Soyuz size would mean a plenty of work to get everything to match in 1.875m with all the stuff that comes with ( engines dishes decouplers.. ) but still would make sense and soyuz would be more accurate :)

As for the gemini, resizing the reentry module to match with the mk1 pod would mean some work too as the service module would be I guess 1.875 large at the bottom, and tantares LV doesn't have any tanks nor engines to fit with.

I would like to say " please consider giving a try to the 1.875m soyuz and R-7 " because it would be more accurate compared to every other launchers from tantares LV and even to your spacecrafts, gemini and the LK are taller than your soyuz, they weren't at all :P , but this is just a proposal, an idea and I don't neglects your work at all, in it's actual chart of size tantares and tantares LV are already cool :P just a bit odd sometimes to me in matter of size but still !

It is yours to choose if you want to give a try to it or not, and you are already doing A HUGE amount of work for all of us especially with the 1.0 coming on anyway..

This little comparison to get you to expand the Soyuz and semiorka does not claim to make your mod acceptable in matter of size, because it is already very good and I enjoy tantares everyday I don't play without it, it 's just a little perfection that I propose to you :)

( I apologize for my mistakes in grammar and in English in general, I try my best to be understood :) )

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Niemand303

Niemand303

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Well, some news for you, guys. The new Roskosmos budget for 2015-2025 was formed and... well, there are bad and good news.

Bad news: the interplanetary electric tug was delayed, or, probably, cancelled. Shame, because it's the only really unique Russian project, which would offer some cool stuff for international cooperation basis.

Good news: a heavier version of Angara are approved for creating, PTK NP (the PPTS) will be on the list, Fobos-Grunt will be back under the name of "Expedition-M" or "Mars-Grunt", a new Methane-propelled rocket to be made. But no Moon Landing soon, the lander budget was cut to delay it.

EDIT: The tug itself

HgvOIHot2Jo.jpg

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billbobjebkirk

billbobjebkirk

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Well, some news for you, guys. The new Roskosmos budget for 2015-2025 was formed and... well, there are bad and good news.

Bad news: the interplanetary electric tug was delayed, or, probably, cancelled. Shame, because it's the only really unique Russian project, which would offer some cool stuff for international cooperation basis.

EDIT: The tug itself

http://cs623629.vk.me/v623629019/2df0f/HgvOIHot2Jo.jpg

How big is that tug?

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Beale

Beale

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Well, talking about soyuz and gemini dimensions isn't an easy thing, I made some researchs and here is what I found

It all started with those two same scaled kits of an R-7 soyuz and a gemini titan II http://spacemodels.nuxit.net/big30.jpg . For sure I was surprised of how small the titan was actually, then I looked for other comparisons and here we go with a vostok https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/36/08/06/36080601b0c886520e539a5e935709db.jpg ( you may notice that the mercury and the gemini reentry pod are nearly the same size ! ) . My following sources are from www.russianspaceweb.com which is truly the bible of the soviet space conquest, and http://www.braeunig.us one of the rare sites that gave me metric dimensions..

Gemini reentry pod : ( nosecone on )

Length: 3.4 m

Maximum diameter: 2.3 m

Habitable volume: 2.55 m3

Total mass: 1,982 kg

Soyuz reentry pod :

Length: 2.1 m

Maximum diameter : 2.7 m

Habitable volume : I got no informations for this as the soyuz interior was remained several times, but I do believe it's pretty much as spacy as a gemini for two cosmonauts with all the greeble and the chutes on.

Total mass: 2,900 kg

Giving a look to the R-7 dimensions here are two interesting drawings that I found on the wiki.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/GPN-2002-000184.png

The R-7 soyuz is nearly 50meters tall for approximately 8 meters large with the first stage, and a diameter of 3.35m for the second one.

And here we go for the proton ( the picture is quite big, I prefer not to integrate it as it has (nearly) nothing to do with the tantares mod, not to flood :P

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Early_Proton-K_rocket_versions.jpg

In his tallest configuration ( mir / salyut ) the proton is 61 meters tall for 8 meters large to the first stage, engines on, the second stage got a diameter of 4.1 meters.

( The titan II had a diameter of 3.05m ).

To me, the gemini like and the soyuz like from your mod deserve to have their diameter switched, as well for the TLV, ahs the gemini reentry pod is just some centimeters taller in diameter http://www.friends-partners.org/mwade/graphics/m/mercgem.gif but clearly longer and stretched, his massive aspect compared to the mercury come from this strech, the nosecone and the service module.

Switching the TLV and Soyuz size would mean a plenty of work to get everything to match in 1.875m with all the stuff that comes with ( engines dishes decouplers.. ) but still would make sense and soyuz would be more accurate :)

As for the gemini, resizing the reentry module to match with the mk1 pod would mean some work too as the service module would be I guess 1.875 large at the bottom, and tantares LV doesn't have any tanks nor engines to fit with.

I would like to say " please consider giving a try to the 1.875m soyuz and R-7 " because it would be more accurate compared to every other launchers from tantares LV and even to your spacecrafts, gemini and the LK are taller than your soyuz, they weren't at all :P , but this is just a proposal, an idea and I don't neglects your work at all, in it's actual chart of size tantares and tantares LV are already cool :P just a bit odd sometimes to me in matter of size but still !

It is yours to choose if you want to give a try to it or not, and you are already doing A HUGE amount of work for all of us especially with the 1.0 coming on anyway..

This little comparison to get you to expand the Soyuz and semiorka does not claim to make your mod acceptable in matter of size, because it is already very good and I enjoy tantares everyday I don't play without it, it 's just a little perfection that I propose to you :)

( I apologize for my mistakes in grammar and in English in general, I try my best to be understood :) )

Thank you for the writeup!

You do make a compelling case for the switch.

However ~ It can't be done, the switch. I think pretty much everything since the Soyuz has been scaled on the assumption that the Soyuz is 1.25m.

It would make it awfully difficult to make a change (I mean, another total revamp).

I think the unfortunate case is that folks will have to accept the Tantares is like a little brother of the Soyuz, 2 seater and not quite the same.

A "super Soyuz" larger sometime in the future? Maybe, maybe.

I hate to reply to such a large essay with a short response, but I think this is all I can say when it comes to the current scaling :)

Well, some news for you, guys. The new Roskosmos budget for 2015-2025 was formed and... well, there are bad and good news.

Bad news: the interplanetary electric tug was delayed, or, probably, cancelled. Shame, because it's the only really unique Russian project, which would offer some cool stuff for international cooperation basis.

Good news: a heavier version of Angara are approved for creating, PTK NP (the PPTS) will be on the list, Fobos-Grunt will be back under the name of "Expedition-M" or "Mars-Grunt", a new Methane-propelled rocket to be made. But no Moon Landing soon, the lander budget was cut to delay it.

EDIT: The tug itself

http://cs623629.vk.me/v623629019/2df0f/HgvOIHot2Jo.jpg

I had been reading about the budget cuts there, also the Progress is going to be less-launched per year.

Sad times, it is true.

I had never heard of the tug, but it looks really cool!

One upside, hearing about "Expedition-M" is very exciting! I hope another attempt at Phobos will be successful! (Like, really really hope!) :)

Photos of Mars from Phobos surface (If I assume it has that equipment) would be incredible (And they can touch down on the Monolith for extra points).

Question!

Ariane SRBs, they gimbal? No?

93900d97f3.jpg

Edited by Beale
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spacecookie

spacecookie

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The tug had a great design, it's too bad mankind don't pay more attention in space exploration nowadays, there are so much great project aborted because of budget restrictions.. I saw on the roscosmos facebook page that the new heavy angara you may talk about ( the angara A5V ) wouldn't be tested before at least 2023 and that is what I found on the thread " The new modification of the Angara heavy rocket is scheduled to be used for another two launches in 2025 to help a new-generation manned spacecraft fly around the Moon. "

I wonder if russia will allow more credits to their new generation spacecraft projects when the united states will come back on the moon with the orion, will they ?

Some interesting stuff I found http://www.russianspaceweb.com/kliper_lunar.html

To beale -> Don't be rude with yourself, your answer was great, and I like pretty much the " soyuz little brother " thingy It's like kerbals wanted to fly a scaled launcher and that sounds very.. kerbal :) !

Will the SRB nosecone be a separate part that can act like a sepratron, I mean, another small solid ?

Edited by spacecookie
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_Augustus_

_Augustus_

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Even if they don't gimbal IRL, why not gimbal in KSP? Gimbals are good!

Yep.

Beale, the Arianne SRB's do gimbal (check here)

You can even see the hydraulic pistons connected to the nozzle on the picture you got :)

Okay, I have made:

The gimbal song: Everything is Gimbal!

Everything is gimbal
Everything is cool when you're gimball-ing

Everything is gimbal

Now give us some money

Woohoo gimbal time!

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_Augustus_

_Augustus_

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How big are those SRBs? 2.5 meters or 1.875 meters? If they are 1.875, I could just delete the large stock SRBs and use the Ariane ones nstead
They're probably 1.875, considering that Beale does the math to scale down parts like I do.
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Beale

Beale

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Will the SRB nosecone be a separate part that can act like a sepratron, I mean, another small solid ?

Yup, this is the plan.

Radial decoupler bug is finally "fixed" AFAIK. So separation should be quite nice.

Beale, the Arianne SRB's do gimbal (check here)

You can even see the hydraulic pistons connected to the nozzle on the picture you got :)

Thanks for the info (All of the page!). :)

How big are those SRBs? 2.5 meters or 1.875 meters? If they are 1.875, I could just delete the large stock SRBs and use the Ariane ones nstead

1.875m :)

Yes they gimbal. After SRB separation, guidance is provided by RCS systems on the core stage.

Interesting... The cryo core stage is without gimbal?

It is also very small amount of initial thrust as far as I can tell, which... I like the idea of, for some reason.

Here's some kind of work-in-progress for the SRB!

Without nozzle.

636f83b494.jpg9a5fdf25ed.jpg

68525205a0.jpg

84547909bd.jpg

Edited by Beale
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Beale

Beale

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Nice and clean SRB, ariane V pieces will give us so many great new possibilities, 3.75m and 1.875m parts are welcome :)

Many thanks.

The SRBs are on the same texture sheet as the cryogenic tank, which keeps things nice and compact. Another 1024 sheet will allow a detailed engine (and upper stage?).

Anyway it should have a reasonably small footprint overall.

I've considered adding a touch more greeble to the core, as it does look a little plain ðŸŒÂ

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spacecookie

spacecookie

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The SRBs are on the same texture sheet as the cryogenic tank, which keeps things nice and compact. Another 1024 sheet will allow a detailed engine (and upper stage?).

The Vulcain ( 2 ? ) hold all my attention I wonder how you will manage to give such a detailed engine the simple & stockalike flavour of your other parts :)

edit : http://puu.sh/hrY2f/84547909bd.jpg This will be an amazing launcher for space station parts, are you planing to do a 3.75m station part one day ?

Edited by spacecookie
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