Beale

[1.8.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [19.0][20/10/2019][Getting weird with it]

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You do love your transfer windows don't you? :)

I can wait patiently for results!

Well of course I do! Without them, how would I see out my pod? Oh wait, you mean the other type. Yes.

Well, all of the Eve ships are out of the Kerbin SOI, and I have some nice long periods that I can timewarp in...

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1.0 will be upon us then - and I'll be able to see what's possible.

Short answer: not a clue.

Edit: I include PPTS as part of the revamp.

Yay, PPTS!

Any screenshots?

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*cough*Dragon V1*cough*

Maybe HTV or Voskhod? Voskhod is kind of important, as right now, the pack has a major gap in technical progression from Vostok to Soyuz. HTV would go quite nice with Fuji.

Voskhod is a Vostok with 3 seats/2 seats and an airlock. And a backup retro-package. That's hardly a giant gap.

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*Cough* Stock-Alike ISS *Cough*...

Stockalike ISS can be easily made with the parts already present in the pack.

As an example, my old ISS I've made during my twitch streams:

byj53phVixQ.jpg

OYzxqtnFqzs.jpg

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Three cheers for brown asymmetric yet generic cone pods that look like they are either covered in kitchen tiles or made out of bricks! :D

Just kidding I may still not be enthusiastic for the PPTS but the important part is at least someone else is. :wink:

Why everyone thinks it is brown?

ptknp_2009_leo_sunrise_1.jpg

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Oh, by the way, if you make PPTS, maybe a 1.875m Angara for TantaresLV? please-please-please! :blush:

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Voskhod is a Vostok with 3 seats/2 seats and an airlock. And a backup retro-package. That's hardly a giant gap.
As much as I want to fly Voskhod in game, this.

Main differences between Vostok and Voskhod are:

1. Replacement of ejection seat (not in mod and hardly possible without dependencies) with one-two seats more (with two-crewed Soyuz in mod - highly overpowered).

2. As a result of 1, higher mass.

3. As a result of 1 and 2, more sophisticated chute system (hardly possible without dependencies, hardly needed without chure rebalance).

3. As a result of 1, less safe design overall. There were two times less planned programs for Voskhod and Voskhod was dumped for more reliable Soyuz (unfortunately, not Soyuz 1)

4. As a result of 2, larger third stage.

5. Additional solid-fuel retrorocket.

6. Optional airlock system (hardly possible without dependencies, hardly needed with every pod having airlock functionality).

7. Camera (scientific part? EVA-enhancing?)

Out of all this changes, only 4, 5 and 7 have no drawbacks, and longer third stage can already be done using Tavio-D.

Retrorocket would be nice, because smallest stock solid booster is just not good enough, and liquid one is just not right.

Camera would be nice, and not only for Voskhod, but even just itself. With some mocking science logs for using it in KSC.

The other points can be done with earlier, heavy (on the chutes limits, really) two-kerballed pod, with animated enlarging 0.625-noded 1-crewed part (like DERP escape pod? I don't remember if it had plugins but think so) that also contains moving with animation crew hatch (us that even legal? ...erm, I mean, possible in KSP?). But I've already listed the drawbacks.

Sorry for bringing bad news.

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Re: Voshkod, vs Vostok;

It's pretty easy to implement a voshkod capsule with existing parts, except for the expanding airlock. In playing around, I simply made a copy of the vostok crew capsule, and tweaked the stats slightly (assigned it 2 crew and the soyuz "space" so the IVA wouldnt be problematic). You can even use the vostok "spud" capsule from another parts pack if you need it visually distinct. After a little while I found that it wasn't really needed, as the in-game progression from the vostok to soyuz-2-man was relatively straightforward. (The soyuz capsule can also be used as a manned Zond if you omit the orbital module).

For my 10cents, I'd prefer to see development effort stay where it is so we get the next release (with the finished soyuz update and VA update) sooner rather than later.

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If you want a Voskhod, download the one from MrTheBull, delete every part but the capsule, chute, retro and antenna. Here's a couple o' .cfg file lines which fit my RSS scale (1.25m in stock is 2.2m):

rescaleFactor = 0.9095607

mass = 2.796

Have fun!

(PS:It even looks the bloody same)

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Stockalike ISS can be easily made with the parts already present in the pack.

As an example, my old ISS I've made during my twitch streams:

Looks great! I especially like the use of the LK as the nodes on the fore-ends of Zvezda and Zarya. Gonna have to give that a go. As much as I like Beale's 6-ways, I like the more spherical shape a bit more. What are the gold-foil tanks on the side of Zarya? They look like they make for good greeble... :)

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If you gonna add the Voskhod, then you need to add the inflatable Airlock to be able to EVA.

There are not much known photo's of it... and i was only able to find a diagram showing the airlock inflated:

Voskhod_spacecraft_diagram.png

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Interesting that after EVE the airlock must be separated for safety reentry.

05.jpg

IVA

d18.jpg

Edited by SnowWhite

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500 points of rep!!!!

Congratulations Beale!!

Also, PPTS hype train!!

Things are looking up for Tantares!

This is a brilliant moment.

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As long as the airlock is part of the descent module instead of its own part, it doesn't seem like it would be that hard to create.

It appears that the PPTS creation has been set in motion. Time for me to begin work on an OPSEK style station to go with it!

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Personally I don't think the Voskhod is that necessary. As others have pointed out, it would be hard to balance against the rest of the pack, and there isn't really an in-game need for a specialized airlock like that. Without that need Voskhod has little purpose, as the airlock is what made it unique.

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*cough*Dragon V1*cough*

Maybe HTV or Voskhod? Voskhod is kind of important, as right now, the pack has a major gap in technical progression from Vostok to Soyuz. HTV would go quite nice with Fuji.

HTV - eh :)

*Cough* Stock-Alike ISS *Cough*...

No no, that just isn't possible from me, I'll just stick to Russian stuff.

Will the revamped IVA's have cabinets be filled with Vodka?

Eh, maybe. :) IVA production.

Well of course I do! Without them, how would I see out my pod? Oh wait, you mean the other type. Yes.

Well, all of the Eve ships are out of the Kerbin SOI, and I have some nice long periods that I can timewarp in...

I'm holding out for "timewarp to" to go interplanetary. :)

Yay, PPTS!

Any screenshots?

Not textured yet. The models are from SnowWhite, they are very nice, but will wait for texture applied.

Why everyone thinks it is brown?

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/images/spacecraft/ppts/ptknp_2009_leo_sunrise_1.jpg

Oh, by the way, if you make PPTS, maybe a 1.875m Angara for TantaresLV? please-please-please! :blush:

250px-PPTS_spacecraft_(2010-2011_design).jpeg

Probably this concept.

Angara: I'm making the PPTS 2.5m, so not sure.

500 points of rep!!!!

Congratulations Beale!!

Also, PPTS hype train!!

Things are looking up for Tantares!

This is a brilliant moment.

Ooh, I get a little blip!

Personally I don't think the Voskhod is that necessary. As others have pointed out, it would be hard to balance against the rest of the pack, and there isn't really an in-game need for a specialized airlock like that. Without that need Voskhod has little purpose, as the airlock is what made it unique.

About all this Vostok banter:

I really do not think it is needed + I do not have so much interest to do it.

An alternate 2 crew CM, maybe :)

As long as the airlock is part of the descent module instead of its own part, it doesn't seem like it would be that hard to create.

It appears that the PPTS creation has been set in motion. Time for me to begin work on an OPSEK style station to go with it!

I do not know if hatch colliders can be animated, which is a problem, I'll play around. Could be useful elsewhere...

I have extremely busy the past days, so no updates! :)

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About all this Vostok banter:

I really do not think it is needed + I do not have so much interest to do it.

An alternate 2 crew CM, maybe :)

Perhaps the Voskhod could be a heavier(cheaper?) 2 man pod with less torque and no RCS fuel.

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Angara: I'm making the PPTS 2.5m, so not sure.

Angara is not needed. With its modular construction and one engine per module, it can be easily replicated in stock bot in 1.25 and 2.5 sizes. Probably the most boring Russian rocket out there.

Also, don't hold the update until 1.0 - with all these things they plan to cramp in there, it won't be soon.

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Any chance of a revamped Apollo D2?

Yeah, I second that. I'd love to see a small 2-man ship that doesn't need fairings.

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Any chance of a revamped Apollo D2?

The D2 had always have a serious game breaking bug - that is a command module with fairings breaks the camera ~ sometimes ~ .

Very unpredictable, very unpleasant.

Unless its been fixed in the 3 or so versions since the D2 was discontinued, can't really bring it back from the dead.

In a nutshell, the Spica is dead :(

Angara is not needed. With its modular construction and one engine per module, it can be easily replicated in stock bot in 1.25 and 2.5 sizes. Probably the most boring Russian rocket out there.

Also, don't hold the update until 1.0 - with all these things they plan to cramp in there, it won't be soon.

Yeah this too, I am not a massive fan of the Angara, I realise it represents the near term future of Russian spaceflight, but its design does not inspire me so much...

Soyuz radial shape is unique, Proton's first stage is unique, the N-1 is very unique.

Oh - I am not holding update for 1.0, it's just how long I expect it to take.

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Looks great! I especially like the use of the LK as the nodes on the fore-ends of Zvezda and Zarya. Gonna have to give that a go. As much as I like Beale's 6-ways, I like the more spherical shape a bit more. What are the gold-foil tanks on the side of Zarya? They look like they make for good greeble... :)

Thanks! Those little tanks are from HGR mod, as well as 1.875 PMA-like adapters on American nodes. :)

Angara: I'm making the PPTS 2.5m, so not sure.

As you may have seen, PPTS is slightly larger than Angara lower stages (URM-1 are exact 3 meters, it's between 2-2.5 meter Soyuz/R-7 and 4.1m Proton, so 1.875 would be nice) and an adapter could be made (it even already exist in your pack):

angara5p_ila08_scale_1.jpg

Angara is not needed. With its modular construction and one engine per module, it can be easily replicated in stock bot in 1.25 and 2.5 sizes. Probably the most boring Russian rocket out there.

Actually, 1.25m parts would be to small (it's bigger than R-7), while 2.5 would be too large for Angara (it's smaller than Proton), so a 1.875 would fit a specific niche and make a whole new class of launchers (if regarding stock-only game, OnionKermin and Socke are already working in this domain). That's why I think Angara should be a go. It's not too compicated, since the design is pretty straightforward, but may be useful as an intermediate rocket between TLV and ALV in the game.

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As you may have seen, PPTS is slightly larger than Angara lower stages (URM-1 are exact 3 meters, it's between 2-2.5 meter Soyuz/R-7 and 4.1m Proton, so 1.875 would be nice) and an adapter could be made (it even already exist in your pack):

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/images/angara5p_ila08_scale_1.jpg

Actually, 1.25m parts would be to small (it's bigger than R-7), while 2.5 would be too large for Angara (it's smaller than Proton), so a 1.875 would fit a specific niche and make a whole new class of launchers (if regarding stock-only game, OnionKermin and Socke are already working in this domain). That's why I think Angara should be a go. It's not too compicated, since the design is pretty straightforward, but may be useful as an intermediate rocket between TLV and ALV in the game.

Hmm, okay, I see a little better now.

Well, I will say beyond Energia and N-1, there is not many more "mainstream" launchers. So it is either declare TantaresLV "finished" or add Angara.

And Angara would be really quite easy to model. :)

It is not easy to pronounce: Ah-rappa? I cannot Cyrillic.

Edited by Beale

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Actually, 1.25m parts would be to small (it's bigger than R-7), while 2.5 would be too large for Angara (it's smaller than Proton), so a 1.875 would fit a specific niche and make a whole new class of launchers (if regarding stock-only game, OnionKermin and Socke are already working in this domain). That's why I think Angara should be a go. It's not too compicated, since the design is pretty straightforward, but may be useful as an intermediate rocket between TLV and ALV in the game.

Hmm, is that a fairings with built-in LES, or this model is just made that way?

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Thanks! Those little tanks are from HGR mod, as well as 1.875 PMA-like adapters on American nodes. :)

As you may have seen, PPTS is slightly larger than Angara lower stages (URM-1 are exact 3 meters, it's between 2-2.5 meter Soyuz/R-7 and 4.1m Proton, so 1.875 would be nice) and an adapter could be made (it even already exist in your pack):

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/images/angara5p_ila08_scale_1.jpg

Actually, 1.25m parts would be to small (it's bigger than R-7), while 2.5 would be too large for Angara (it's smaller than Proton), so a 1.875 would fit a specific niche and make a whole new class of launchers (if regarding stock-only game, OnionKermin and Socke are already working in this domain). That's why I think Angara should be a go. It's not too compicated, since the design is pretty straightforward, but may be useful as an intermediate rocket between TLV and ALV in the game.

As someone posted before (long time ago), PPTS even bigger than VA diameter. So, diameter of the "Tantares-style" capsule is closer to 2m.

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Hmm, okay, I see a little better now.

Well, I will say beyond Energia and N-1, there is not many more "mainstream" launchers. So it is either declare TantaresLV "finished" or add Angara.

And Angara would be really quite easy to model. :)

It is not easy to pronounce: Ah-rappa? I cannot Cyrillic.

Yay, it would be nice to see. :)

And it's pronounced Angara, lol, Some Cyrillic letters look like Latin ones but pronounced the other way, the best example is the Spanish pronunciation of "j".

A - A like in Italian/French/German... Well, in most languages but not English for some reason

ÃÂ - N

Ó - G like in "bag"

A

à - R

A

Oh, and "ÃËœ" (if you might be interested) is something like English "EE", "meet". :)

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Hmm, is that a fairings with built-in LES, or this model is just made that way?

I think it's because of the model being a mockup. :)

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