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[1.12.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [26.0][18.12.2023][Soyuz Revamp Again]


Beale

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Ooh this is so cool ! :D thank ya very much !

Thanks! :)

What software do you use for texturing? Photoshop? Gimp? MS Paint?

I highly doubt MS Paint, but it can't hurt to ask.

Photoshop is more or less required for editing the files on the Repo (I'm sure there are other softwares to edit the PSD files, but I can't support them). :)

Hurray! New release' date=' Thanks! :D And I also just figured out how to replace engine FX and sound on my own. I won't have to wait for NearFuturePropulsion to update anymore, instead I can enjoy Tantares' engines with future tech effects! Oh heck yeah!!! :cool:

Nice station by the way Beale. Looks like something out of Star Trek in KSP. :)[/quote']

I would be interested to see that.

Thanks!

Nice screenshots!

The docking approach especially is really pleasant.

Added!

No! Stop it! I'm trying to finish unlocking the new 1.0 tech tree with stock-only parts before I start using lot of mod parts again! Ahhh! ;)

This thing looks way too nice. You've come quite a long way in the (what? Year? 2 Years?) you've been making neat stuff for us in KSP. Really like the larger sized docking port, and the APAS / NDS ports.

Just realized this mod has been around for a year. 28 releases. Wow.

Many thanks!

Yes, 1 year almost exactly :) Fond memories.

something in this new update messed with the MianBao module texture...

Not for long, hopefully :)

This update seems to have broken my sub-assemblies. The Soyuz CSM assembly from 27 loads as individual pieces. Some of the parts seem sized differently also, particularly the T-OMS part.

I think I have to agree. This mod seems to be going from a stock-alike Soviet inspired pack to a Soviet realism mod and it's now seems awkward and confusing.

Some minor sizing changes on the engines will cause problems, apologies for that.

On your other point, don't be silly - If I wanted to go full realism it would have happened months ago. Visually the latest update is more stock-ish than the previous (Got rid of the scratchy textures).

I'll try out the config and see how it works for me. Kudos. Also, here's my fairing setup for Procedural fairings. It basically uses interstage on the top and bottom. Works like a charm. http://i.imgur.com/HUvuInH.png

I'm struggling to see what is going on here, but I like it.

A little more detailed explanation of how this is working?

Dat new docking probe! My suggestion is that you leave both 0.9375m and 0.625m parts, but 0.9375m one will get a long "base", to be like early Soyuz:

http://www.moluch.ru/archive/28/3057/images/33fd7816.jpg

It could appear earlier in the tech tree, be heavier (same for 0.9375m OM) and have no fuel transfer. The 0.625 could be a T/TM/TMA port of the second generation. :)

For the APAS, I'd vote for 1.25m one.

Thanks!

This is a nice idea, it could work (And make icons easier to separate).

Just a couple of minor niggles with the new stuff so far

Could the next update have the new orbital module added to Extra_Tac and Extra_KIS?

Also did the progress have a KIS entry? I thought it did but might be misremembering

Beautiful parts Beale

Fixed :)

Alright' date=' I think may have finally completed my TMK-esque ship all thanks to the new parts! :D

[url']http://imgur.com/a/Vz0MU

This is actually the thrid iteration but the previous two were drafts and very much in WIP phases. This is the first I consider space-worthy.

Very nice :)

How much DV? Can you escape Kerbol?

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Very nice :)

How much DV? Can you escape Kerbol?

Yup, my trajectory is looking straighter than an arrow. :D

Edit: My ship's dV? To be frank I've never paid much attention to dV.. ever. :P I can do math I was good at it, I just don't like doing it anymore. Blame school for ruining math for me.

Edited by T'Flok
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Go into the Tantares folder, go to the SOYUZ folder, and delete:

_Soyuz_DockingMechanism_A.cfg

_Soyuz_DockingMechanism_B.cfg

_Soyuz_Apas_B.cfg

You'll be one of us someday. I, for one, welcome our new 0.9375m overlords.

Thanks for the hint.

Also, I'm afrain I won't. 0.9375m parts are used only in Tantares. Use them in sake of "realism" and lose compatibility with numerous other mods? Thanks, but no thanks.

I must say that I don't like where it's going. Several more such "realism-oriented" updates - and Tantares would turn in a clone of raidernick's Soviet pack, effectively losing its "Stockalike" looks.

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Yup' date=' my trajectory is looking straighter than an arrow. :D [/quote']

Impressive :)

I must say that I don't like where it's going. Several more such "realism-oriented" updates - and Tantares would turn in a clone of raidernick's Soviet pack, effectively losing its "Stockalike" looks.

I can't see the problem if the 0.625m ports haven't been removed or changed at all? The 0.9375m parts have been around since the TKS introduction an nobody complained.

Once again I have to insist the new capsule is more stock-alike in looks than the old one.

It's more heavily stylised with the stripe, and a lot less 'gritty'.

ed79378ec2.jpg

What exactly are people concerned about when they are talking of realism? A particular part? I would like to hear, it worries me.

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...On your other point, don't be silly - If I wanted to go full realism it would have happened months ago. Visually the latest update is more stock-ish than the previous (Got rid of the scratchy textures)....

Fair enough, but the mix of different docking port sizes and formats still seems awkward and confusing to me.

Just giving some feedback here. I do appreciate your work and do realize you do this for your own enjoyment. Thank you for making this mod, it has given me many, many hours of entertainment.

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Impressive :)

Thanks! :) Fuel stuff on my ship is on cheats though as usual but I'm planning to turn a fuel cell part into a xenon and monoprop replicator. I won't ever change my playstyle but I am figuring out how to change the gameplay to my sci-fi craving.

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I can't see the problem if the 0.625m ports haven't been removed or changed at all? The 0.9375m parts have been around since the TKS introduction an nobody complained.

Once again I have to insist the new capsule is more stock-alike in looks than the old one.

It's more heavily stylised with the stripe, and a lot less 'gritty'.

http://puu.sh/i8kYz/ed79378ec2.jpg

What exactly are people concerned about when they are talking of realism? A particular part? I would like to hear, it worries me.

Well, I like the striped one more than the old version :)

0.9375m parts - I'm not on my gaming PC to check this, but IIRC the only 0.9375m TKS part was its descent engine (again, I might be wrong). This is tolerable - descent engine and capsule were specifically designed to operate together. They weren't meant to be 100% compatible with other mods, but nothing prevented you from using them.

New docking ports aren't designed to be compatible with stock sizes. Not by its configs, but by the looks - they look awkward when they're coupled to stock docking ports, and that's not something you can fix with a careful offset. One might say "Build a service adapter" - thanks, but I don't like adding additional parts to my ship. That what I meant by my "too much realism" complaint - with all these "special" parts Tantares starts to look like a full-blown replica mod, not stock-alike replica mod. "Replica" in sense that these parts were never meant to work nicely with stock and other mods - they are designed to be assembled in specific manner. A good example of that would be FASA Atlas or Bobcat rockets - it's hard to make something different out of these parts.

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At least the 0.625 meter ports are still available for people who don't like the bigger ones.

I personally like what's going on with the 0.9375 meter docking ports. The idea of making them into a heavier, more primitive version of the regular docking ports sounds bad. Soyuz 7K-OK docking ports can easily be constructed with other parts. In fact, I have constructed them and posted pictures on this thread. And crossfeed can be disabled on docking ports anyway, so if someone wants that additional constraint, they can put it on themselves.

If anything, the 0.625 meter ports would be better suited for Soyuz 7K-OK, since it seems to be agreed that Kerbals would be unable to fit through a hole that small.

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Hi!I ve got a problem...i start a new carrier and when i launch the rocket with the first soyuz pod the kerbal in the low right corner isn t show and i cant go in first person view...any suggestion?i ve many mod install like tweak scale but the config file in dropbox give me error because he can t find file...i also have remote tech real chute tweakable everything and many more....sorry for my bad english

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What exactly are people concerned about when they are talking of realism? A particular part? I would like to hear, it worries me.

Beats me. I love the art pass you gave things on this update.

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Thanks! :)

I'm struggling to see what is going on here, but I like it.

A little more detailed explanation of how this is working?

Basically, like this: CAUTION, VOLUME POSSIBLY.

At least the 0.625 meter ports are still available for people who don't like the bigger ones.

I personally like what's going on with the 0.9375 meter docking ports. The idea of making them into a heavier, more primitive version of the regular docking ports sounds bad. Soyuz 7K-OK docking ports can easily be constructed with other parts. In fact, I have constructed them and posted pictures on this thread. And crossfeed can be disabled on docking ports anyway, so if someone wants that additional constraint, they can put it on themselves.

If anything, the 0.625 meter ports would be better suited for Soyuz 7K-OK, since it seems to be agreed that Kerbals would be unable to fit through a hole that small.

I'll have to agree with pTrevTrevs. As for the new 0.9375m docking probes getting a 7K-OK style makeover, I'd be wary of that. The 0.9375m port is technically the correctly sized port for all the Soyuz variants over the years. The 7K-OK style can be created using an empty MP tank using my config, or with stacked up TKS parachutes. It'd also be super easier to make part for that. It's just a cylinder. But, it's also clutter. You win some, you loose some. It's up to you. I think there are enough parts currently for people to work it out for themselves.

Here are three ways to replicate the look of the 7K-OK docking probe. The two crafts on either end use my rescale config, the center image does not.

Ytj3RqW.jpg

Hi!I ve got a problem...i start a new carrier and when i launch the rocket with the first soyuz pod the kerbal in the low right corner isn t show and i cant go in first person view...any suggestion?i ve many mod install like tweak scale but the config file in dropbox give me error because he can t find file...i also have remote tech real chute tweakable everything and many more....sorry for my bad english

The first issue is that IVAs aren't implemented in many pods at the moment.

As for the dropbox issue, I'm not sure what's up... Both links are working for me. Can anyone else confirm? If the link isn't the issue you're having, make sure you've read the "READ ME." It should tell you everything you need to know. If you can't figure it out, PM me, and we'll work on it. :)

Well, I like the striped one more than the old version :)

0.9375m parts - I'm not on my gaming PC to check this, but IIRC the only 0.9375m TKS part was its descent engine (again, I might be wrong). This is tolerable - descent engine and capsule were specifically designed to operate together. They weren't meant to be 100% compatible with other mods, but nothing prevented you from using them.

New docking ports aren't designed to be compatible with stock sizes. Not by its configs, but by the looks - they look awkward when they're coupled to stock docking ports, and that's not something you can fix with a careful offset. One might say "Build a service adapter" - thanks, but I don't like adding additional parts to my ship. That what I meant by my "too much realism" complaint - with all these "special" parts Tantares starts to look like a full-blown replica mod, not stock-alike replica mod. "Replica" in sense that these parts were never meant to work nicely with stock and other mods - they are designed to be assembled in specific manner. A good example of that would be FASA Atlas or Bobcat rockets - it's hard to make something different out of these parts.

Well, the APAS is available in 1.25m as well, so that's something. Remember, that Beale hasn't made any subtractions to his parts list. All the old sizes are still around. Really, it's Squad's fault for every using 0.625m as crew transferable docking port size. It doesn't make any sense really. They should have made it just a mechanical docking port like on the Gemini missions for early tech-tree docking. It's a perfect IRL counterpart. There's no way a Kerbal could ever fit through a 0.625m port. I usually RP that anyways into my games, but to each their own.

Artistically though, I think Beale is on the right track. He's taking a lot of obvious design cues from Porkjet, and I think Porkjet (and RoverDude) have really nailed what "stock" look looks like. Old Squad "stock" is just bad compared to a lot of the things I'm seeing form mod authors. I mean, the Mk1-2 pod, ALL the decouplers, some of the tanks... They're just bad... Maybe some players need really obvious visual cues to make rockets that don't explode on the pad as much, but I think anyone looking for stock alike Soviet and ESA parts know their way around the parts catalog well enough to competently construct a rocket without all the obvious and obnoxious visual design cues. Tantares is subtle, and simple, and I think that's the kind of I prefer, which is what PorkJet has really pushed for visually. Or I could be totally wrong, and just blowing smoke. Eh, either way, that's just my own internal though process.

Tantares has seen a lot of rapid growth, and Beale I'm pretty sure has had a lot of IRL keeping him busy. I think it'll be time for polish and fine tuning soon. Maybe we need less frequent, more polished, full releases? I could go for that, though I do enjoy watch watching Beale work.

Impressive :)

I can't see the problem if the 0.625m ports haven't been removed or changed at all? The 0.9375m parts have been around since the TKS introduction an nobody complained.

Once again I have to insist the new capsule is more stock-alike in looks than the old one.

It's more heavily stylised with the stripe, and a lot less 'gritty'.

http://puu.sh/i8kYz/ed79378ec2.jpg

What exactly are people concerned about when they are talking of realism? A particular part? I would like to hear, it worries me.

See above, naturally. I don't prefer the stripe, but I don't totally hate it either. It's slowly growing on me. I think my only critique would be that the wide stripe gives the modules the illusion of "squatty-ness." The new 0.9375m OM looks especially squatty. Thinner, more subtle lines could lessen this effect.

Also, many thanks for throwing those photos in the album. :)

Edited by curtquarquesso
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Well, the APAS is available in 1.25m as well, so that's something. Remember, that Beale hasn't made any subtractions to his parts list. All the old sizes are still around. Really, it's Squad's fault for every using 0.625m as crew transferable docking port size. It doesn't make any sense really. They should have made it just a mechanical docking port like on the Gemini missions for early tech-tree docking. It's a perfect IRL counterpart. There's no way a Kerbal could ever fit through a 0.625m port. I usually RP that anyways into my games, but to each their own.

Following this logic, how would Kerbals go between Soyuz CM and Soyuz OM? It's a 0.625m ring :P As I said when this "+0.3m realism idea" appeared - in order to make it work, you need to re-make almost everything in order for it to look consistent.

Maybe we need less frequent, more polished, full releases? I could go for that, though I do enjoy watch watching Beale work.

I would agree on that. It is fully understandable that Beale (or any other mod author) is not completely satisfied with his work and wish to make it better; but in the same time, that means lots and lots and lots of updates, and these updates can be save-breaking. This thread (and the mod itself) just celebrated its 1st year; there was 28 "milestone" updates and numerous bug-fixing updates.

The problem is that many of these updates are part of what I would call a "closed cycle". Beale want to revamp Soyuz; he does that, but now Salyut\Mir parts need to be revamped, in order to look as cool as the new Soyuz. He completes that - but by this time, he is dissatisfied with Soyz again... It would be WAY better to get all these revamps in one huge package every four months or something. Frankly, I'm afraid to use Soyuz\Mir parts in something long-lasting, like extraplanetary bases or long-term missions to Jool moons - simply because they might break after another revamp.

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New docking ports aren't designed to be compatible with stock sizes. Not by its configs, but by the looks - they look awkward when they're coupled to stock docking ports, and that's not something you can fix with a careful offset. One might say "Build a service adapter" - thanks, but I don't like adding additional parts to my ship.

I don't understand this argument. You're complaining that a 0.9m docking port isn't visually compatible with a 1.25m docking port? Why should it be? If you don't like don't use it. Beale hasn't removed the old parts. He's just added more parts at very little RAM usage which you could easily delete if you like. Those who want pure stock sizes should be happy and those want their Soyuz to actually look like the Soyuz are happy too. As for not being able to use them for other things, that's just down to what you decide to build with them. What else exactly is a docking port meant to be than a docking port? It just gives a different size port. You could make the same argument about having both the male and female 0.625m ports - what use are they except as Soyuz docking ports? They just add clutter! In fact, the argument against the Soyuz 0.625m ports is stronger than against 0.9m ones - we already have a 0.625m port whereas we don't 0.9m!

Ultimately this is Beale's mod and personally I like where it's going. It's one of the best looking mods out there and is clearly made with thought and care. Beale hasn't removed any features or parts. I really don't understand all this negativity.

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Following this logic, how would Kerbals go between Soyuz CM and Soyuz OM? It's a 0.625m ring :P As I said when this "+0.3m realism idea" appeared - in order to make it work, you need to re-make almost everything in order for it to look consistent.

I... I... Yeah. Actually. You're right. I can't unseen now. To be fair, Beale added those three extruded bits to try to fill out the shape a bit to give the illusion of a bit more girth. Now that I compare a pod against a Kerbal without helmets, they could probably slide through there if they were greased with a little Mystery Goo.

I would agree on that. It is fully understandable that Beale (or any other mod author) is not completely satisfied with his work and wish to make it better; but in the same time, that means lots and lots and lots of updates, and these updates can be save-breaking. This thread (and the mod itself) just celebrated its 1st year; there was 28 "milestone" updates and numerous bug-fixing updates.

The problem is that many of these updates are part of what I would call a "closed cycle". Beale want to revamp Soyuz; he does that, but now Salyut\Mir parts need to be revamped, in order to look as cool as the new Soyuz. He completes that - but by this time, he is dissatisfied with Soyz again... It would be WAY better to get all these revamps in one huge package every four months or something. Frankly, I'm afraid to use Soyuz\Mir parts in something long-lasting, like extraplanetary bases or long-term missions to Jool moons - simply because they might break after another revamp.

Yeah, the save/craft breaking can be irritating. I haven't played a serious, sit-down career game in some time. I mainly diddle with re-creations and modding. Getting the game to a playable state with all the right mods, anticipating a future career mode run turns into a game in of itself. Heh. I think some stuff gets released unpolished and unfinished a bit too early because people pressure him for it occasionally. I think Tantares is a bit unusual for a parts mod, because it's so ridiculously actively developed and evolving. I guess if I had to choose between using an add-ons being abandoned by their authors, and add-ons being revamped ad nauseum, I'd take the latter. The loaf works in strange and mysterious ways...

I don't understand this argument. You're complaining that a 0.9m docking port isn't visually compatible with a 1.25m docking port? Why should it be? If you don't like don't use it. Beale hasn't removed the old parts. He's just added more parts at very little RAM usage which you could easily delete if you like. Those who want pure stock sizes should be happy and those want their Soyuz to actually look like the Soyuz are happy too. As for not being able to use them for other things, that's just down to what you decide to build with them. What else exactly is a docking port meant to be than a docking port? It just gives a different size port. You could make the same argument about having both the male and female 0.625m ports - what use are they except as Soyuz docking ports? They just add clutter! In fact, the argument against the Soyuz 0.625m ports is stronger than against 0.9m ones - we already have a 0.625m port whereas we don't 0.9m!

Ultimately this is Beale's mod and personally I like where it's going. It's one of the best looking mods out there and is clearly made with thought and care. Beale hasn't removed any features or parts. I really don't understand all this negativity.

I agree, but I think we should consider changing topics before the saltiness spreads much more. It's good critique and discussion, let's just make we don't create an argument out of nothing. :D

Edited by curtquarquesso
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I agree, but I think we should consider changing topics before the saltiness spreads much more. It's good critique and discussion, let's just make we don't create an argument out of nothing. :D

Good call! Let's all just bask in Beale's loafy gloriousness!

Beale I wonder if you would consider making either some dedicated radiator panels or giving the Zarya-style monoprop tanks some radiator qualities? With the new heat system they might be a useful thing to have especially on NERVA ships. Not a priority obviously, just a 'would that ever happen' sort of thing.

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Good call! Let's all just bask in Beale's loafy gloriousness!

Beale I wonder if you would consider making either some dedicated radiator panels or giving the Zarya-style monoprop tanks some radiator qualities? With the new heat system they might be a useful thing to have especially on NERVA ships. Not a priority obviously, just a 'would that ever happen' sort of thing.

Perhaps someone could write a config for the TKS monopropellant tanks to act as radiators in KSP Interstellar. It adds waste heat, so radiators are required.

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I think good points back and forth - I listen to all no worries.

Basically - I think the Soyuz and the style it shares with the Salyut is where I want things, pretty permanently. Pretty monochrome, but the stripes and stuff etc. It's a solid style I can apply universalle.

I am not so happy with save-breaking my own saves, so probably slow it down development wise. Focus on cleaning up textures and balancing for now (I know Kliper/PPTS etc...).

I can confirm a lot of bugs (Like the smoke FX of the Soyuz rocket) so will fix them (Or apply CrisK's fixes).

I never feel pressure to make something - apart from some very bizarre private message requests. No worries there.

Beale I wonder if you would consider making either some dedicated radiator panels or giving the Zarya-style monoprop tanks some radiator qualities? With the new heat system they might be a useful thing to have especially on NERVA ships. Not a priority obviously, just a 'would that ever happen' sort of thing.

There's the classic mistake of illustrating those parts as Solar panels on the TKS - something also would be good.

I was toying with Radiators when doing the LOK recently.

I think they would be really good yeah - probably the folding variety. :)

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I'm on a phone so I can't directly quote any of this but here is my opinion on the 0.9m parts

First off when the tks first went 0.9m I did complain not wanting kit parts, but was silenced by the counter argument that the pod wouldn't look accurate or something otherwise.

Since then I've tried to push for 0.9m to be fully fleshed out figuring clutter was better than kits (proposals like 0.9m V2, mig15 parts etc...), but assuming 0.9m never gets properly fleshed out as a size class thereby allowing the existing parts to be worth the space they take in my messy part catalog then I would prefer it if 0.9m parts were eliminated completely or at least made purely optional and easily separated and deleted (so the 0.9m ports and OM's are fine since there are standard sized equivalents but it would be nice if we got some non-0.9m alternatives for tks or if 0.9m was properly fleshed out instead of reserved for case by case kit parts)

Edited by passinglurker
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I'm on a phone so I can't directly quote any of this but here is my opinion on the 0.9m parts

First off when the tks first went 0.9m I did complain not wanting kit parts, but was silenced by the counter argument that the pod wouldn't look accurate or something otherwise.

Since then I've tried to push for 0.9m to be fully fleshed out figuring clutter was better than kits (proposals like 0.9m V2, mig15 parts etc...), but assuming 0.9m never gets properly fleshed out as a size class thereby allowing the existing parts to be worth the space they take in my messy part catalog then I would prefer it if 0.9m parts were eliminated completely or at least made purely optional and easily separated and deleted (so the 0.9m ports and OM's are fine since there are standard sized equivalents but it would be nice if we got some non-0.9m alternatives for tks or if 0.9m was properly fleshed out instead of reserved for case by case kit parts)

I see what you're saying - but, in the case of the TKS: it looks very very wrong with any other top size than 0.9375m. So it's difficult.

In more general case, it is either unpopular to rescale some parts to that size (V2), or I have absolutely no interest (Mig).

Small Proton Texture Tweak

c24cf11d74.jpg

Edited by Beale
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I see what you're saying - but, in the case of the TKS: it looks very very wrong with any other top size than 0.9375m. So it's difficult.

In more general case, it is either unpopular to rescale some parts to that size (V2), or I have absolutely no interest (Mig).

Small Proton Texture Tweak

http://puu.sh/i8MrF/c24cf11d74.jpg

Not the biggest fan of the superfluous stripes and such on the body, particularly on the top of the first stage. Honestly, I think Proton could be a bit lighter in color, and have more contrast in bricks, but I don't think it needs stripes.

On another note, I've started working on TMA! It's not too hard, since I'm largely copy-pasting from my old .psd files, but I'm looking to make it look even nicer. Progress-TMA will be totally unchanged, since Beale did not remodel the Progress parts.

LMXkkff.png

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As for the save breaking...I don't play anything besides career and while I've been caught out a couple of times (castor Engine B and redoing remote tech ranges for example) most of Beales changes are easily fixable...some other mods are absolute horrors to use consistently over a month or two and I've had to drop them entirely, keeping the old sizes in the docking ports is a major help in that though I look forward to using the new ones when visually appropriate :)

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Stripes is the new style of your parts isn't it ? :) I really like it.

My apologizes if this has already been said, I have issues with the tanta dishes, they doesn't clip anywhere and the bug seems to occur with the IGLA too sometimes, I don't have all the tantares parts installed but the SOYUZ and SALYUT folder are kept intact. How can I fix it ?

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