Beale

[1.9.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [21.2][15.05.2020][Feature Complete]

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First time playing in 2.5x system with 1.5x atmosphere height, I'm finding it extremely difficult to reach orbit with the Proton rocket. It mainly seems to be lacking in ISP, but maybe I'm just bad at flying it...

EDIT: Zenit, oddly, can put a DOS station in LKO with ease.

Edited by sslaptnhablhat

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2 hours ago, sslaptnhablhat said:

First time playing in 2.5x system with 1.5x atmosphere height, I'm finding it extremely difficult to reach orbit with the Proton rocket. It mainly seems to be lacking in ISP, but maybe I'm just bad at flying it...

EDIT: Zenit, oddly, can put a DOS station in LKO with ease.

It has been a while since I tried, it's possible the balance is off. :confused:

How is your Proton set up currently? (Pics / etc).

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14 minutes ago, Beale said:

It has been a while since I tried, it's possible the balance is off. :confused:

How is your Proton set up currently? (Pics / etc).

Purely standard setup, but I'll take another look tomorrow.

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6 hours ago, sslaptnhablhat said:

First time playing in 2.5x system with 1.5x atmosphere height, I'm finding it extremely difficult to reach orbit with the Proton rocket. It mainly seems to be lacking in ISP, but maybe I'm just bad at flying it...

EDIT: Zenit, oddly, can put a DOS station in LKO with ease.

I play 2.5x and Tantares LV are OP if anything. 1.5x atmosphere is overkill IMO. Roll that back and everything should be fine. Also, you might want to use SMURFF for the other rockets, I have it set to 20%

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9 hours ago, HooHungLow said:

I play 2.5x and Tantares LV are OP if anything. 1.5x atmosphere is overkill IMO. Roll that back and everything should be fine. Also, you might want to use SMURFF for the other rockets, I have it set to 20%

Thanks very much for the info, I tried it set to 25% and just barely got a TKS into orbit, I'll keep tinkering with it.

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19 hours ago, HooHungLow said:

I play 2.5x and Tantares LV are OP if anything. 1.5x atmosphere is overkill IMO. Roll that back and everything should be fine. Also, you might want to use SMURFF for the other rockets, I have it set to 20%

Agreed...I think the default atmosphere using ReScale 2.5x is only 10-15km higher thank Stock. 

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1 hour ago, Tyko said:

Agreed...I think the default atmosphere using ReScale 2.5x is only 10-15km higher thank Stock. 

 

11 hours ago, sslaptnhablhat said:

Thanks very much for the info, I tried it set to 25% and just barely got a TKS into orbit, I'll keep tinkering with it.

I just double checked, my Smurff is at 0.25, I am getting roughly 4620 m/s (Atmo) 5788 m/s (Vac) of DV with my TKS build. Not counting the extra DV you can get from the Tug engines on the TKS itself. 

In 2.5x you need just under 5k Dv to reach 70km orbit. Gravity turn is useful, but I always leave the turn at 10 degrees or less, otherwise it tends to be overzealous with the pitch maneuver. 

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36 minutes ago, HooHungLow said:

Gravity turn is useful, but I always leave the turn at 10 degrees or less, otherwise it tends to be overzealous with the pitch maneuver.

If you're referring to the mod Gravity Turn - I've found it tends to have a problem with second stages. It locks your AP to a set time, I think 50 seconds is normal, when you stage and your second stage ignites you've fallen below 50 seconds and the mod will make all kinds of crazy maneuvers to get you back to 50 seconds - pitching up and bobbing etc. You end up needing an overly powerful 2nd stage to "catch up" with that 50 second to AP target.

It may be worth a try flying it manually. You can still use that 50 second target (55 actually works better for 2.5x), but when you're getting close to stage 1 burnout punch the throttle and let your time to AP climb. This will give your second stage some time to fire before you get back down to 50 seconds. It made a huge difference for me in my 2nd stage TWR needs and helped me build more efficient rockets.

This is a bit off topic for Tantares, but worth considering that it may be your flight profile rather than underpowered parts causing you problems. If you want to talk through this more happy to PM with you. I just went through the same thing with my Saturn V analog.

 

Edited by Tyko

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It sounds like the Proton issue is solved / misunderstanding? So I will come out of my cave.

 

z33ZguC.png
o3PftuV.png
9AALYwy.png
3rwqTIk.jpg
TpgKQd4.png

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1 minute ago, sslaptnhablhat said:

'Tis a joke, I just want that darn airlock and retrorocket, like, kinda badly!

Aaaaah. Okay, I see.

Airlock is kinda covered by Making History, though, right? I've not actually used that part, tbh, but... *shrugs*

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2 minutes ago, MaverickSawyer said:

Aaaaah. Okay, I see.

Airlock is kinda covered by Making History, though, right? I've not actually used that part, tbh, but... *shrugs*

It's really huge compared to Tantares' Vostok capsule and I don't think there's way to decouple it. Plus, Making History's parts are generally worse than BDB's.

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The smallest proton tank can't be attached radially, but has a "nodeAttach" in its cfg.

I am annoying suggestor.

This is all possible variations of Soyuz MOE.

Kfbx3p8.png

(done in pixel art)

The green ones are already in game.

The red ones can be created if you put two nozzles on the side/one nozzle on the top.

Would be good to see in game at least the white ones.

 

Edited by Gapone

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4 hours ago, Gapone said:

The smallest proton tank can't be attached radially, but has a "nodeAttach" in its cfg.
This is all possible variations of Soyuz MOE.
Kfbx3p8.png

Thanks I will consider some of these.

7 hours ago, sslaptnhablhat said:

v-v-voskhod?

Almost got me!

 

Unfortunately there were some big problems measuring out the Polyus parts, and some things have to be scrapped and restarted.
As a stroke of luck, the existing crew module and the top half of the battery shown above can be salvaged.

1Q1juX9.png
uyTT6TA.png
lCf3QDq.png
pUR7A4F.png

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I wanted to say thanks for the great work. Tantares is a beautiful mod and i love flying Soyuz rockets and craft.

I do have a question. Are there plans to rebalance costs for career mode? Proton costs seem to be too high, and N1 and Zenit costs are too low. I have a spread sheet that I can share when off work, but the N1 has a $/kg rate about half the price of BDB's Saturn 5. Now, that's across mods, but since they're balanced performance wise (each can carry about 1/2 of their real world tonnage to LKO in 2.5x) it seems off. The Zenit engines are even more egregious.

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G1CIhF3.png
0I0bTMe.png
gPcf9Rn.png
vjuUQrC.png

LOQQtGO.png  Special boy lands on Moon, does a big flip.

Edited by Beale

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17 minutes ago, Beale said:


gPcf9Rn.png
Special boy lands on Moon, does a big flip.

1550703432-wait.jpg

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who built the energia stack with the tantares parts?

 

...I WANT! :D

Edited by RaiderMan

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5 hours ago, Beale said:


  LOQQtGO.png 

Special boy lands on Moon, does a big flip.

Waoo, that look great ! I love it.

Beautiful Landing Module :)

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22 hours ago, Machinique said:

I wanted to say thanks for the great work. Tantares is a beautiful mod and i love flying Soyuz rockets and craft.

I do have a question. Are there plans to rebalance costs for career mode? Proton costs seem to be too high, and N1 and Zenit costs are too low. I have a spread sheet that I can share when off work, but the N1 has a $/kg rate about half the price of BDB's Saturn 5. Now, that's across mods, but since they're balanced performance wise (each can carry about 1/2 of their real world tonnage to LKO in 2.5x) it seems off. The Zenit engines are even more egregious.

Thanks you for mentioning this!

Yes I would love to see what you have, the cost on the older parts (in particular N1) is not great and needs improving.

21 hours ago, DiscoSlelge said:

1550703432-wait.jpg

No no no, lies, we just landed in the special place...

sjuZYs6.png

18 hours ago, HooHungLow said:

qvQ20u2.png7SIwMTk.png

These are great! LCA Polyus?

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16 minutes ago, Beale said:

Thanks you for mentioning this!

Yes I would love to see what you have, the cost on the older parts (in particular N1) is not great and needs improving.

No no no, lies, we just landed in the special place...

sjuZYs6.png

These are great! LCA Polyus?

Damn krussians faking everything !

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