Beale

[1.9.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [21.2][15.05.2020][Feature Complete]

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@Beale

 

LFO Soyuz is also better with the fact that the sloped ribbed tank contains lfo but the straight ribbed tank will for some reason contain mp which doesnt make sense. LFO is usually more efficient and gives the feel of a complicated spacecraft.

Another complain is that with the addition of old soyuz rcs the ones at the bottom of old soyuz sm are redundant.

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I agree, I think LFO would be better. It would also be more accurate, seeing as Soyuz uses N2O4/UDMH bipropellant and not monopropellant.

EDIT: The main reason I'd want LFO RCS parts is to make building TKS/FGB crafts easier, seeing as the fuel tanks hold a crazy amount of LFO and no monoprop. It's a shame people seem to want monoprop for Soyuz more than LFO.

Edited by sslaptnhablhat

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6 hours ago, Zorg said:

This turning above 10km idea is from the old KSP aero model. This is NOT optimal anymore. For the vast majority of reasonably designed rockets, you

1) start a gravity turn by nudging 10 degrees in the direction you are launching it at 100-150m/s then holding prograde.  (you can also start gentler earlier but this is pretty safe)

2) disable prograde hold at 45 degrees if you find yourself at 45 degrees before reaching 20-25km.

3) Then go as horizontal as possible from there keeping Ap at least 30s away (at stock scale, in 2.5x you prob want to keep it 60-90s away)

4) establish Ap and then circularise at Ap (or learn to do a single burn to orbit,)

See the gif pkmniako posted which illustrates a proper gravity turn.

That 10km thing these days would only be necessary for something with horrible aero like trying to launch an unshielded space station or something.

In 2.5 scale i usually turn 5 degrees at around 80-100 m/s, then follow the prograde until i reach 45-50 km, then keep forward. I keep Ap at 40-50 s and usually have a circularization burn of 10-30 m/s dV.

anyway, I got tired of the old rocket parts, so im updating today. I hope it goes as smoothly as before

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3 minutes ago, Fredde104 said:

In 2.5 scale i usually turn 5 degrees at around 80-100 m/s, then follow the prograde until i reach 45-50 km, then keep forward. I keep Ap at 40-50 s and usually have a circularization burn of 10-30 m/s dV.

anyway, I got tired of the old rocket parts, so im updating today. I hope it goes as smoothly as before

Yeah I kept those instructions a bit generous to account for lower TWR rockets as well. I usually start at 50 m/s and follow a profile for a single burn to orbit (if a low twr upper stage is used which is most of the time for me).

Anyway hope it works out for you, I've not had any trouble with the current Tantares build though I've mostly flown the smaller diameter upper stage.

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2 hours ago, Random Annoying Guy said:
  Hide contents

 

O4PHvxo.png

Very loosely based onn1mv23.jpg

(This thing is as high as the vab!)

 

 

Cool build! There are many interesting N1 early designs.

29 minutes ago, MashAndBangers said:

Very nice beale... why can I see Duna?  BEALE WHAT DID YOU DO?

You never failed to carry the one and fling yourself interplanetary before? :D

4 hours ago, sslaptnhablhat said:

I agree, I think LFO would be better. It would also be more accurate, seeing as Soyuz uses N2O4/UDMH bipropellant and not monopropellant.

EDIT: The main reason I'd want LFO RCS parts is to make building TKS/FGB crafts easier, seeing as the fuel tanks hold a crazy amount of LFO and no monoprop. It's a shame people seem to want monoprop for Soyuz more than LFO.

Fwiw TKS is included in "small craft" and would go Monopropellant. Anything that isn't s launch vehicle really.

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11 hours ago, Zorg said:

See the gif pkmniako posted which illustrates a proper gravity turn

 

Interesting. Thanks! Can you direct me to this gif you mentioned?

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giphy.gif

I just made this as a way to say thank you for your work. ;)

Sorry for the mouse pointer, that was me being amateur with recording.

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10 hours ago, Daniel Prates said:

 

Interesting. Thanks! Can you direct me to this gif you mentioned?

Its just on the previous page. Its a bit sped up but as you can see its a continous turn that starts gently very soon after lift off. This is how real rockets are launched and this method is the most effective since KSP 1.0 I believe (or even earlier I forget when the aero model was changed)

On 1/27/2020 at 9:05 PM, Pkmniako said:

0eFyFDF.gif

Tried launching Beale's Soyuz and had no flips.

 

Would have tried with your craft @Fredde104, but there are parts I don't know from which mods they are from.

 

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10 hours ago, bokrif said:

giphy.gif

I just made this as a way to say thank you for your work. ;)

Sorry for the mouse pointer, that was me being amateur with recording.

This is what really makes it worthwhile making all this, seeing people enjoy it! so thanks very much!

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40 minutes ago, Zorg said:

Its just on the previous page.

Oh sorry, I thought it was in another thread. Thanks. 

 

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I am having issues with the new docking parts, for some reason the LK-1 docks with the Soyuz and can't undock. And a week ago the new ASTP docking nodes wouldn't connect. 

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Minor request, do you think it'd be possible to make a Salyut dark grey thermal texture variant for the 6-way hub and endcaps?

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17 hours ago, HooHungLow said:

I am having issues with the new docking parts, for some reason the LK-1 docks with the Soyuz and can't undock. And a week ago the new ASTP docking nodes wouldn't connect. 

It looks as though this lines needs to be removed from the male config:

        deployAnimationController = 1
5 hours ago, sslaptnhablhat said:

Minor request, do you think it'd be possible to make a Salyut dark grey thermal texture variant for the 6-way hub and endcaps?

Unfortunately they all share the same giant 2048x2048 texture, so this is not too feasible, you would have to do this yourself:

The fabric is a fairly simple modifier, this texture on Overlay at 40% opacity:

JHUjVXa.png

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Requesting advice on RCS placement on Soyuz.

I'm finding it difficult to balance the RCS blocks for translation, mainly due to the slightly angled RCS nozzles at the base of the S5.80 engine part causing rotation.

I know I can use the advanced tweakables (although they don't show up on the part in editor / flight, have to edit the part cfg) but I also have an issue where activating certain SAS modes switches those rotation / translation options on or off... :huh:

Anyone have any suggestions on how they deal with it?

Edited by Fly Angry
stuff. things.

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41 minutes ago, Fly Angry said:

Anyone have any suggestions on how they deal with it?

This mod is very helpful to balance RCS for rotation, translation or engine placement in shuttle-ish crafts.

 

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1 hour ago, Fly Angry said:

Requesting advice on RCS placement on Soyuz.

I'm finding it difficult to balance the RCS blocks for translation, mainly due to the slightly angled RCS nozzles at the base of the S5.80 engine part causing rotation.

I know I can use the advanced tweakables (although they don't show up on the part in editor / flight, have to edit the part cfg) but I also have an issue where activating certain SAS modes switches those rotation / translation options on or off... :huh:

Anyone have any suggestions on how they deal with it?

1 hour ago, Marcelo Silveira said:

This mod is very helpful to balance RCS for rotation, translation or engine placement in shuttle-ish crafts.

 

Hold fire on this just yet, the parts have not been balanced (literally) yet. When finished the COM will be directly on the RCS mounting point.

 

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41 minutes ago, Beale said:

Hold fire on this just yet, the parts have not been balanced (literally) yet. When finished the COM will be directly on the RCS mounting point.

 


Thank you. This has long been a (very minor) gripe of mine with the SM, and I've always disabled its RCS ports in favor of using "regular" stand alone RCS parts placed accordingly in x4 symmetry. Looking forward to trying out the new parts in the next release :-)

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@Fly Angry Sorry just re-reading your post with a little more coffee in me :)

Those angled nozzles actually are design to cause rotation, and is the Soyuz's "coarse" attitude control for pitch and yaw.

You can disable this by turning off the second RCS module on the part, then you only have the "fine" pitch and yaw motors.
Both modules are hard-coded to only affect pitch and yaw. (though the coarse can also provide Z+ thrust with the H key)

(Yes the irl soyuz RCS layout is confusing).

Still - a lot to be balanced regarding this :D

Edited by Beale

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1 hour ago, Beale said:

Still - a lot to be balanced regarding this

Heh, thanks Beale, had a feeling that might be the case. Angled nozzles make sense now that I've had some time tonight testing the new parts out.

Now that Kopernicus is updated I'm playing at 2.5x scale, was thinking maybe using SMURFF might help shift the COM to a better spot? In the meantime I've added a bit of weight via an mm cfg to the engine part to balance things out. Handles much better with the COM shifted a bit.

@Marcelo Silveira Thanks for the link to RCS Build Aid, I'd forgotten that was a thing. :)

Edited by Fly Angry
STUFF. THINGS. Apparently I need more coffee too.

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Time to close the poll?

It's close, no doubt, but the overall percentages are not really moving much.

Edited by Beale

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