Returning an amateur payload from space

[Exosphere]

One issue that I've never heard much about with regards to Copenhagen Suborbitals or any other amateur group that plans to send a payload into space is the issue of landing site clearance. If an amateur group plans to launch some sort of payload, especially a human payload, what would be the procedure (if anyone has thought of one) for receiving clearance to descend through a country's airspace to land in that country's territory? Would it be in any way similar to the procedure pilots go through to request clearance to enter into a given section of airspace (i.e. "I'd like to descend from FL650-FL000 in a two minute period" ), or the process U.S. amateur rocketeers complete by requesting an FAA waiver to launch rockets larger than a given size, or would it be completely different? Is there even any implied procedure to go through?

I know CS somewhat avoids this process by launching from international waters, but assuming someone did launch a payload on a suborbital trajectory/launched an orbital payload and de-orbited it over a country's territory, what would they likely have to do to get clearance to do so?

[drakesdoom]

No one has done that yet, so they get to find out when they do.

[magnemoe]

Some amateurs send a rocket up to 100 km, its not a giant problem to get permissions in the US.

FAA is used to people doing all sort of strange stuff including private supersonic fighter jets.

Part of the problem in Denmark is that the country is small and heavy populated, hard to find a safe area who don't also has other restrictions like national forest or military training area.

Their version of FAA might also be less used to weird stuff.

[jwenting]

if Denmark is like the Netherlands, all airspace >750 feet is reserved for IFR traffic under positive control, doesn't really leave any room for rocketeering.

[xenomorph555]

Well Copenhagen Suborbitals will land like they launch, in international waters. In this case I believe no special permission will be needed for landing.

[Tommygun]

Well if you both launch and later land in international waters you won't need anyone's permission....at least not technically, but governments don't like people doing things outside of their control.

I remember reading that Eisenhower delayed launching the first US satellite over some of these issues back in 1956.

Now days it is just accepted that a nation's airspace sovereignty does not extend into outer space or the Kármán line, but during reentry you could easily pass over a country below that line.

Well unless you are coming down over the oceans or large country.

I don't know if there has ever been an international agreement on some on this.

[christok]

According to the Outer Space Treaty:

- Governements are responsible for the actions of their citizens in outer space.

- Any objects launched into outer space remain the property of the launching nation. (Which propably has the property rights of the amateurs encoded in its local laws. If you launch illegally, your craft could probably be confiscated on the basis that it was used to commit a crime.) There are no salvage rights, even if it crashes in another country or gets blasted into space junk by an impact.

- All spacefarers are envoys of humanity. They may not be detained but must instead be returned to their country. (This basically amounts to diplomatic immunity. Your own country could still arrest you for whatever you did, so don't get any funny ideas.)

- The launching nation is liable for any damages caused by e.g. a spacecraft crash. (Your country would presumably slap you with a big fat fine and/or civil damages depending on local laws.)

- You will certainly need permission from your local civil aviation authority as well as that of any nation whose airspace you intend to enter. Note that some greedy (non-spacefaring) countries near the equator try to claim that their airspace extends to GEO. You probably want to avoid those.

- You probably need permission to handle explosives in large quantities for whatever propellant you use.

- You will need a launch site. Probably be some military installation since you need completely clear airspace. This is often easier to arrange than it may sound, just by asking nicely and going through the channels.

Also: The Secretary General of the UN must be informed of every launch, including planned trajectory. So at least you don't have to worry about being mistaken for an ICBM. Hopefully.

Edited June 9, 2014 by christok
typo

[Exosphere]

According to the Outer Space Treaty:

- Governements are responsible for the actions of their citizens in outer space.

- Any objects launched into outer space remain the property of the launching nation. (Which propably has the property rights of the amateurs encoded in its local laws. If you launch illegally, your craft could probably be confiscated on the basis that it was used to commit a crime.) There are no salvage rights, even if it crashes in another country or gets blasted into space junk by an impact.

- All spacefarers are envoys of humanity. They may not be detained but must instead be returned to their country. (This basically amounts to diplomatic immunity. Your own country could still arrest you for whatever you did, so don't get any funny ideas.)

- The launching nation is liable for any damages caused by e.g. a spacecraft crash. (Your country would presumably slap you with a big fat fine and/or civil damages depending on local laws.)

- You will certainly need permission from your local civil aviation authority as well as that of any nation whose airspace you intend to enter. Note that some greedy (non-spacefaring) countries near the equator try to claim that their airspace extends to GEO. You probably want to avoid those.

- You probably need permission to handle explosives in large quantities for whatever propellant you use.

- You will need a launch site. Probably be some military installation since you need completely clear airspace. This is often easier to arrange than it may sound, just by asking nicely and going through the channels.

Also: The Secretary General of the UN must be informed of every launch, including planned trajectory. So at least you don't have to worry about being mistaken for an ICBM. Hopefully.

So basically the procedure mostly involves getting airspace cleared, both for ascent and descent? I know that (in the US at least) amateurs launching small (well, I guess it would be large for amateur rocketry) sounding rockets have to receive clearance from the FAA and have airspace cleared to launch. In the case of an orbital craft, I would assume that you'd have to clear a much larger area, as well as a larger altitude band (although I'm not sure the altitude increase would be as large a problem, as most commercial flights tend to stay below 40,000 feet or so). Does anyone know how that might affect the difficulty of receiving clearance, or how "friendly" the FAA is in general to amateur rocketry?

Also... I've never heard anything about informing the secretary general of the UN. I don't think the GoFast team that launched a sounding rocket into space in 2004 did that, and IDK if CS has either. I'm not sure exactly how one would go about doing that -- it's not like you could just call the UN and ask to speak with the secretary-general about getting clearance to launch your amateur cubesat.

Obviously, I don't intend to launch anything into orbit, especially not on a homemade rocket as I have neither the knowledge, time, or money to do so (especially not the money...). The whole issue just seems interesting to me, as it's something beyond the realm of what is generally considered when one builds an amateur rocket, and is thus intriguing.

[Tarrow]

Also: The Secretary General of the UN must be informed of every launch, including planned trajectory. So at least you don't have to worry about being mistaken for an ICBM. Hopefully.

As I understand it there's no actual binding requirement to notify the UN, at least in the majority of UN counties.

The UN Office of Outer Space Affairs requests that they be updated with regards to launches and some basic orbital information as soon as is practicable. Only 4 of the 50+ members states of the UN have actually formally signed on with that, the rest provide data purely on a voluntary basis.

edit actually just found the link on the UN website - its a purely voluntary requirement. You don't have to tell them anything.

http://www.unoosa.org/oosa/FAQ/splawfaq.html#Q12

Edited June 9, 2014 by Tarrow

[Armchair Rocket Scientist]

For a suborbital mission, the flight would last less than half an hour. In the US, I think they basically give you clearance for airspace over a given area up to a given altitude during a given time interval, and for larger projects you are expected to show that the vehicle will not leave the cleared area.

For a launch from international waters, I'd guess that whatever country you're from will still make sure you notify air traffic control or otherwise make sure that no airplanes will fly over any area that might have a rocket launching from it.

[christok]

As I understand it there's no actual binding requirement to notify the UN, at least in the majority of UN counties.

The UN Office of Outer Space Affairs requests that they be updated with regards to launches and some basic orbital information as soon as is practicable. Only 4 of the 50+ members states of the UN have actually formally signed on with that, the rest provide data purely on a voluntary basis.

edit actually just found the link on the UN website - its a purely voluntary requirement. You don't have to tell them anything.

http://www.unoosa.org/oosa/FAQ/splawfaq.html#Q12

The UN doesn't require it because the UN doesn't normally write laws. The requirement is part of the 1975 Convention on registration of objects launched into outer space.

[Exosphere]

Since one of the major steps towards getting approval to launch something into space (in the U.S. at least) is getting a permit from the FAA, does anyone know how "friendly" the FAA is towards amateur rocketry? Obviously, there have to be rules about amateurs launching rockets into restricted airspace or airspace regularly used by commercial jetliners, but in general, is the FAA supportive of the hobby -- i.e. are they generally willing to provide amateur rocketeers with the opportunity to launch their high-altitude rockets (provided they're launching from a safe location and have demonstrated their competency, of course)?

[Tommygun]

They do have the Tripoli Rocketry Association (TRA) and Large and Dangerous Rocket Society (LDRS) in the US and Canada.

They do require Certification:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_powered_rocket#Certification_in_the_USA_.26_Canada

And

http://www.tripoli.org/Certifications/tabid/80/Default.aspx

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms seemed to have a bigger problem with large rockets than the FAA did and fought a 9 year court battle with these groups over the fuels used by them.

[magnemoe]

Well if you both launch and later land in international waters you won't need anyone's permission....at least not technically, but governments don't like people doing things outside of their control.

I remember reading that Eisenhower delayed launching the first US satellite over some of these issues back in 1956.

Now days it is just accepted that a nation's airspace sovereignty does not extend into outer space or the Kármán line, but during reentry you could easily pass over a country below that line.

Well unless you are coming down over the oceans or large country.

I don't know if there has ever been an international agreement on some on this.

Back before satellites its was no upper limit of airspace. This was an issue in the US and as I understand the first US satelite had to be launched entirely civilian and return scientific data for this reason. They also had an spy satellite program in progress but would not launch this first even if ready.

Soviet launched sputnik and nobody important complained about airspace violations so they agree on putting the limit to space at 100km.

[Armchair Rocket Scientist]

Since one of the major steps towards getting approval to launch something into space (in the U.S. at least) is getting a permit from the FAA, does anyone know how "friendly" the FAA is towards amateur rocketry? Obviously, there have to be rules about amateurs launching rockets into restricted airspace or airspace regularly used by commercial jetliners, but in general, is the FAA supportive of the hobby -- i.e. are they generally willing to provide amateur rocketeers with the opportunity to launch their high-altitude rockets (provided they're launching from a safe location and have demonstrated their competency, of course)?

I don't know a whole lot about the process of getting permission, but I'd say the US is fairly "rocket-friendly" compared to other countries. However, I don't know how much of that is the FAA and equivalent agencies and how much is fire protection, explosives, etc.

It's hard to say why this is, but I'd guess that two possible reasons are (a) America is pretty economically libertarian compared to other developed nations (i.e. not receptive to government regulations on what you can purchase) and has something of a love affair with firearms. It's possible that this has also extended to other hobbies involving flames and "explosions." ( America isn't as empty as Canada or Australia, but compared to most European countries it's sparsely populated. In particular, the Great Plains region and the western/southwestern deserts have a bunch of wheat/corn fields, ranches, and dry lakebeds in the middle of nowhere, which means that American high power launches can get waivers to really high altitudes.