mikegarrison Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 (edited) Best case the stock additions let the RT team do more and/or frees them from some aspects of unity engine wranglingWorst case scenario, RT still gets a bunch of new antenna models to adjust to their own tasteNo, the real worst case is that stock gets something that works very differently than RemoteTech but fills the same niche and also includes aspects that destroy the balance of the existing RemoteTech parts. Could happen. Has happened to other mods.I was annoyed by the RemoteTech restriction that KSP was the only place on Kerbin that could talk to probes, but after playing a bit I actually found it fun to build a constellation of comsats around Kerbin. I now think that eliminating that would be a bad thing. Edited July 23, 2015 by mikegarrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoMrBond Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 No, the real worst case is that stock gets something that works very differently than RemoteTech but fills the same niche and also includes aspects that destroy the balance of the existing RemoteTech parts. Could happen. Has happened to other mods.I was annoyed by the RemoteTech restriction that KSP was the only place on Kerbin that could talk to probes, but after playing a bit I actually found it fun to build a constellation of comsats around Kerbin. I now think that eliminating that would be a bad thing.Or it could go the way of FAR, where Ferram talked to the developers and got a 'I'll take it from here' flag in the Squad aero system so now FAR can metaphorically put up it's hand and take over.Which is why I'm hoping there is constructive dialogue happening, now is the time for someone from the RTG to contact Ted and/or RoverDude and make sure RT isn't irreparably harmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alshain Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Well now... that sounded pretty personal Sorry, don't take it that way. You and I just don't have the same vision for this game. It is an opinion. Anyway I probably shouldn't have drug this thread off topic. I apologize for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qigon Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Sorry, don't take it that way. You and I just don't have the same vision for this game. It is an opinion. Anyway I probably shouldn't have drug this thread off topic. I apologize for that.It looked like there wasn't any room for misinterpret. I like RoverDude's work a lot, and I'd try to evaluate him professionally by his mods since that's where he has all the freedom to decide what he wants/ personally by the direct, honest, and supportive way that he reads and writes his posts. Don't expect him to be the voice/face of the whole Squad team. Because it's a team, not a "one man does whatever he feels like". That's how any successful software house works anywhere. If you don't like what Squad delivers don't take the steam off on a single person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Kerman Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Quick and (I assume simple) question - I understand that Signal Delays are a thing if you're trying to do live commands. But why does it affect planned manoeuvres?Why shouldn't it? You still have to tell the probe that you want it to perform the maneuver. Even if you're scheduling it well in advance the signal has to go out to inform the probe, and that will be delayed. If you want the probe to know what it has to do at a certain time prior to launching, you'll need to look into kOS scripting.I think it'll be fine, but not having a flight computer is bad design choice and likely will cause a lot of frustrationThere will be no signal delay implemented at all, hence no need for a flight computer.I look forward to a statement from one of the RT developers on the recent announcement for stock integration of some of this mod's features Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDP Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I look forward to a statement from one of the RT developers on the recent announcement for stock integration of some of this mod's featuresA quick disclainer: yours truly isn't really an RT dev anymore. At most, I'm an infrequent contributor.Since signal delay won't be added, there will still be a place for RT. The only change is that the relay network would now be maintained by stock. We'd still need RT to impose challenges coming from signal delay. Possibly, this would even help to focus efforts a bit, since devs can now focus entirely on the game mechanic of signal delay and providing tools to allow players to still do cool stuff like interplanetary transfers, landing, flying and rovering around.I am a bit saddened by the choice only to include omnidirectional antennae. But I do understand how dish management might not harmonize that well with what the devs historically have wanted stock game mechanics to feel like.TL;DR: Basically only the core RT prerequisite; relay network implementation, is going to be stockified. a future RT implementation could easily build on this for a more RT feel of signal delay and flight computer madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop149 Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 There will be no signal delay implemented at all, hence no need for a flight computer.I look forward to a statement from one of the RT developers on the recent announcement for stock integration of some of this mod's featuresNo signal delay but the stock version will have signal occlusion (but only from nearby bodies apparently), so a flight computer is required if you ever want to burn on the "wrong" side of a planet. It is a fairly major oversight IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Kerman Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 I see. That's a good point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegarrison Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Omnidirectional antennas are convenient and easy -- which is exactly why building up relay networks using the directional dishes turned out to be interesting -- because it was challenging. You can make mistakes. You can build whole arrays of satellites based on solving the problem. You have to design your satellites carefully around the need for multiple dedicated dishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nori Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 There will be no signal delay implemented at all, hence no need for a flight computer.But there will be Occlusion. You can work around it, but it's likely you won't have the ideal maneuver node.Honestly they don't need a full computer. Just a simple point to node and burn at the right time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstah Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Honestly they don't need a full computer. Just a simple point to node and burn at the right time.A way to queue commands with delay would be nice too, so we can stow antennas prior to a reentry and have them deploy again after a set time.But I agree a full blown flight computer is not needed for the stock implementation. RT is for more harcore players, I think. The flight computer fits right in it.- - - Updated - - -Oh, and I have a question about RT: is it currently possible to tell it to exec all future maneuver nodes, instead of just the next one? Can it be implemented? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nori Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 A way to queue commands with delay would be nice too, so we can stow antennas prior to a reentry and have them deploy again after a set time.But I agree a full blown flight computer is not needed for the stock implementation. RT is for more harcore players, I think. The flight computer fits right in it.- - - Updated - - -Oh, and I have a question about RT: is it currently possible to tell it to exec all future maneuver nodes, instead of just the next one? Can it be implemented?I may be wrong but I don't think so. At least the last time I tried it I don't recall it working. But I could be doing it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeJeeMan Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Hi I'm having a problem with Remotetech for some reason none of my omnidirectional antenna will connect to mission control. They do not even show up in the selection menu in map view. I have even tried this with a clean stock install of KSP. all dish type antenna work it is just the omnidirectional ones that do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damerell Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Hi I'm having a problem with Remotetech for some reason none of my omnidirectional antenna will connect to mission control. They do not even show up in the selection menu in map view. I have even tried this with a clean stock install of KSP. all dish type antenna work it is just the omnidirectional ones that do not.Can you show us a screenshot from an affected game that demonstrates the error, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstah Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Hi I'm having a problem with Remotetech for some reason none of my omnidirectional antenna will connect to mission control. They do not even show up in the selection menu in map view. I have even tried this with a clean stock install of KSP. all dish type antenna work it is just the omnidirectional ones that do not.You know, they aren't supposed to show on the selection menu. Only directional antennas show there, since that menu is for targeting them.Can you control the probes? Maybe you just have the lines turned off on the map view, so the connections aren't showing but are still active? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeJeeMan Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) Can you show us a screenshot from an affected game that demonstrates the error, please?Here are some picture's trying to show what I mean. I am using a clean install of KSP, Ckan to install mods (tried this with CKAN and adding the mod manually got the same results) most current version of KSP and RT. I built a test bench with all current antenna's. hope this helpsYou know, they aren't supposed to show on the selection menu. Only directional antennas show there, since that menu is for targeting them.Can you control the probes? Maybe you just have the lines turned off on the map view, so the connections aren't showing but are still active?Hey thank you for the input, I wish it was as simple as that. @ about 3k M I lose all control of my probe. any omnidirectional antenna refuses to connect to mission control any any way.. its really bummin me outhttps://youtu.be/d-fYEOcyK-A Edited July 24, 2015 by WeeJeeMan Added a vid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svm420 Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I posted an issue on Github, but thought I'd post here too. RemoteTech desperately needs to add a forward RCS translation option to the flight computer. It is absolutely fundamental for RSS and real fuels in general now that ullage is a part of the plugin. Please make this a priority as it leave Realfuels with ullage unplayable. I love the mod so much thats why I ask. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alshain Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Hi I'm having a problem with Remotetech for some reason none of my omnidirectional antenna will connect to mission control. They do not even show up in the selection menu in map view. I have even tried this with a clean stock install of KSP. all dish type antenna work it is just the omnidirectional ones that do not.Omni's connect to anything in range and LOS automatically. You don't have to target them. Most likely you are out of range or out of line of sight. This depends on what side of the planet you are on, what antenna you have, and how far you are from the planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeJeeMan Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) Omni's connect to anything in range and LOS automatically. You don't have to target them. Most likely you are out of range or out of line of sight. This depends on what side of the planet you are on, what antenna you have, and how far you are from the planet.I have tried all omni's that come stock and with RT. none of them will connect what so ever. View My VideoAlso I did a little testing. I lose comm's around 3k m- - - Updated - - -For some reason my video did not work. uploading a new one to youtube will post it soonhttps://youtu.be/d-fYEOcyK-A Edited July 24, 2015 by WeeJeeMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigma88 Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I have tried all omni's that come stock and with RT. none of them will connect what so ever. View My VideoAlso I did a little testing. I lose comm's around 3k m- - - Updated - - -For some reason my video did not work. uploading a new one to youtube will post it soonhttps://youtu.be/d-fYEOcyK-Ahave you tried turning on the antennas? not inside the atmosphere tho, that would mean breaking them.try using the black one, can't remember the name right now... something like DP-10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alshain Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 (edited) I have tried all omni's that come stock and with RT. none of them will connect what so ever. View My VideoAlso I did a little testing. I lose comm's around 3k m- - - Updated - - -For some reason my video did not work. uploading a new one to youtube will post it soonhttps://youtu.be/d-fYEOcyK-AThose omni's have to be deployed (also they break in the atmosphere so don't do that). Instead make sure your ascent stage has a Reflectron DP-10. That is a short range omni that is always deployed and doesn't break. Once you get out of the substantial atmosphere, deploy the other omni, because it has a longer range. Make sure you deploy it before staging away your DP-10 though. Depending on your tech level the core has a built in antenna, but it won't get you very far off the launchpad, which is why you have connection for a very short time before losing it. All of that depends on where you are going, and what infrastructure you have. For low orbit the DP-10 can be your only antenna. It has a range of 500km line of sight, but of course you need satellites to go around the planet from there and if your satellites are high enough (they probably will be) then you will want a least a Communotron 16 anyway. Edited July 24, 2015 by Alshain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeJeeMan Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 have you tried turning on the antennas? not inside the atmosphere tho, that would mean breaking them.try using the black one, can't remember the name right now... something like DP-10Thank you, and yes I have tried turning them on- - - Updated - - -Those omni's have to be deployed (also they break in the atmosphere so don't do that). Instead make sure your ascent stage has a Reflectron DP-10. That is a short range omni that is always deployed and doesn't break. Once you get out of the substantial atmosphere, deploy the other omni, because it has a longer range. Make sure you deploy it before staging away your DP-10 though.thank you , I will give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigma88 Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Thank you, and yes I have tried turning them onOk, in the video they weren't activated so I assumed that could have been the problem.Had to make the joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeeJeeMan Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Ok, in the video they weren't activated so I assumed that could have been the problem.Had to make the joke Its ok I don't mind people laughing at my expense lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDE Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Alright, this might sound really stupid, but: why are the antennas so big? New Horizons runs with a 2.4 meter dish. The Voyagers - 3.7 m.Yes, I know I can reconfigure the settings, and I plan to do so, but before that I'd like to hear your opinion. And I wouldn't be surprised if it were merely for the sake of balancing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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