Show + or - on the target speed

[dryer_lint]

Yes, I know, the title is confusing. What I'm trying to say is... you know when you have the navball showing your speed toward the target? This is very useful when docking, but it's still just a number. I don't actually know if I'm moving toward or away from the target. Of course, I could check where the prograde or retrograde marker is, but sometimes I still have to rotate the navball around to do this. I think it would be a lot more convenient to just add a positive or negative sign to the Target Speed, that way we can tell which direction we're going. Anyone agree?

[Kasuha]

If you see this at the center of your navball, it is "+":

If you see this at the center of your navball, it is "-":

If you see neither icon at the center of your navball (and they're somewhere on the side etc), then it is neither "+" nor "-" because you're moving diagonally or perpendicularly.

In other words, these two icons tell you the direction of that speed.

[dryer_lint]

That's what I meant, though. Sometimes I'm moving diagonally and I can't turn the ship around that quickly. I just feel like it would be more convenient to have it on the speed indicator, that's all.

[Kasuha]

Your velocity is a vector. It is always either positive (you're moving) or zero (you're not moving). And the direction of that velocity is indicated by icons on your navball. A sign has no sense in that context, it is always positive towards the prograde icon and negative towards the retrograde icon. Both at the same time.

[BudgetHedgehog]

I've wanted this so many times.. Yeah, the icons on the navball show it, but the navball is hardly the clearest indicator (you'll have the target indicator and target velocity indicator hopefully in roughly the same position and if you're facing towards or away from it, then they'll be in the middle of the navball along with the -v-. It gets cramped there, and that's when you can see them - if they're just out of sight on the edge (even worse at the top or bottom), you can't tell without rotating round. Say you have the target indicator, the purple ring, in the middle of your navball. Do you burn towards it or away from it? You can't tell without first finding your actual direction of movement. But if you had a little '-' at the top next to the speed, you'd be able to tell immediately and can move your craft to the correct position without spinning wildly trying to find where the prograde/retrograde is relative to the target marker.

No, I'm with OP on this, I'd love for it to be in stock.

[Justin Kerbice]

@Kasusha: you may have read a bit too fast, it's about speed relative to a target (a ship mostly), as we can go faster than our target (+0.5 m/s) or slower (-1 m/s) but we only have 0.5 or 1.0 on the navball. Our own ship prograde/retrograde vectors may not match the target ones.

[Kasuha]

@Kasusha: you may have read a bit too fast, it's about speed relative to a target (a ship mostly), as we can go faster than our target (+0.5 m/s) or slower (-1 m/s) but we only have 0.5 or 1.0 on the navball. Our own ship prograde/retrograde vectors may not match the target ones.

Even in target mode your relative velocity is a vector and navball icons correspond to its direction. There can be any angle between your velocity vector and direction towards the target, "+" or "-" make no sense in that context.

[dryer_lint]

I think I understand what Kasuha was saying... as in, if you're moving sideways past the target? But you'd still be moving toward​ the target, right?

[Greenfire32]

That's what I meant, though. Sometimes I'm moving diagonally and I can't turn the ship around that quickly.

Having a + or - wouldn't help you in this situation as you would still have to orientate your ship to do whichever burn is required. And let's say that your readout said "-120m/s" but you couldn't see the pro or retro grade indicators (like you were going sideways), you'd still have to guess at which direction to turn if you didn't know wether or not your target was in the blue or red portions of the navball.

In short, having a + or - with the speed really wouldn't help you, because it still wouldn't give you directional position. You'd still need to line up your pro/retro grades and burn accordingly. Plus a speed of -120m/s is impossible because you cant go a negative speed.

[Kasuha]

Let's take a look at this simple example.

The red circle is your target. You're at point 1, moving 5 m/s. Technically, you're moving towards the target, right?

In a few seconds, you're at point 2. You did not turn, your speed did not change. But now, you're moving away from your target.

What's the point of changing the sign at the 5 m/s of your speed, if nothing changed on your motion? You just flew past your target.

[Red Iron Crown]

Needs more than +/-, it should show the closing or opening component of your velocity vector. So in Kasuha's example diagram, it would have a small positive component at the start, drop to zero, then continue into the negatives. Always with a magnitude <5m/s, because you're never heading directly toward or away from the target.

Sort of like the closing speed the Docking Port Alignment mod shows.

[regex]

The navball already provides all the information you need, it just needs to be presented in a better manner. Kasuha has already rightly pointed out why a +/- indicator on the speed isn't better. Something that would be very useful in almost all circumstances would be ghosting the prograde marker (and also the maneuver node marker, but that's another discussion) so you always know what direction you need to point to find it.

[rhoark]

You are going a negative speed when your coordinate in whatever coordinate system you choose is getting smaller. If you set your rendezvous target as coordinate 0, negative speed is possible, meaningful, and useful.

[r4pt0r]

yeah if we already can toggle between orbital speed and speed relative to target, adding a + or - in front is a very minimal change.

[rtxoff]

deleted, missed some part of the discussion

[LethalDose]

Needs more than +/-, it should show the closing or opening component of your velocity vector. So in Kasuha's example diagram, it would have a small positive component at the start, drop to zero, then continue into the negatives. Always with a magnitude <5m/s, because you're never heading directly toward or away from the target.

Sort of like the closing speed the Docking Port Alignment mod shows.

This is what I'd like to see. I think the UI would be enhanced if it simply indicated if distance to target is increasing or decreasing.

If you see this at the center of your navball, it is "+":

http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/w/images/thumb/a/a4/Prograde.svg/64px-Prograde.svg.png

If you see this at the center of your navball, it is "-":

http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/w/images/thumb/0/02/Retrograde.svg/64px-Retrograde.svg.png

If you see neither icon at the center of your navball (and they're somewhere on the side etc), then it is neither "+" nor "-" because you're moving diagonally or perpendicularly.

In other words, these two icons tell you the direction of that speed.

Kashua's point about the icons above is only partly right (and yes, I read everything you posted in it, and yes in the later ones too). You can see both icons at any time on navball by rotating the vessel, which doesn't change if you are opening or closing distance. What matters if you see the target direction indicator near the target prograde velocity or target retrograde velocity indicator. In the former situation you are closing distance, in the latter you are opening distance.

AFAIK, the only why to get "distance to target" and "rate of change in distance to target" using the stock UI is to watch the location the target on the HUD. This is a place where I think there is room for improvement in the stock UI.