lo-fi

[1.0.x] [V1.9f] Kerbal Foundries wheels, anti-grav repulsors and tracks

What to work on next?  

1,268 members have voted

  1. 1. What to work on next?

    • More wheels
      121
    • More tracks
      449
    • Rover bodies
      238
    • Landing gear
      136
    • Landing legs
      108
    • Something completely different
      189


Recommended Posts

Hehe! That's a whole lot of repulsors :P

What happens when you have repulsors at silly heights isn't really to do with them themselves, but how the vessel isn't really suspended in the air, it's supported from the contact point of the WC with the ground. So once you get hovering >>> than vessel length, you tend to run into major stability issues, and things get rather counter-intuitive. You can move stuff around in the part, but then you get a hard limit on how close to the ground you can get, and if you turn them off the WC clips through the ground and will never make contact again unless you have another way of getting the craft lifted to clip back above the ground collider. They certainly won't ever make a a VTOL you can fly around at 5,000 feet I'm afraid - it would need a totally different mechanic for that, and, well: wings ;)

Gaalidas, you'll find that the RepulsorTest module has 64m height. It ought to be a slightly old copy of the normal class that I was going to delete, but changed for something Madrias was playing with.

Strength, I can do something about, I'll modify the ranges for next release if people are finding they need more.

Just tested the icon size fix, which is working perfectly!

http://i.imgur.com/hbzVwkS.png

Sweet, can't wait to try the new bits!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:) Just had a texture update come through from Justin, so it's edging closer. I'm really looking forward to the next release as this will definitely be the last alpha. Beta stage ought to be a soft release for finally tweaking some values, dotting I's and crossing T's, then it's off into the big bad world :cool:

Already seeing Squad posting bits with repulsors, tracks and wheels in, and it always makes me smile. The latest cinematic by Achroma is fabulous too (though I may have posted before)!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hehe! That's a whole lot of repulsors :P

What happens when you have repulsors at silly heights isn't really to do with them themselves, but how the vessel isn't really suspended in the air, it's supported from the contact point of the WC with the ground. So once you get hovering >>> than vessel length, you tend to run into major stability issues, and things get rather counter-intuitive. You can move stuff around in the part, but then you get a hard limit on how close to the ground you can get, and if you turn them off the WC clips through the ground and will never make contact again unless you have another way of getting the craft lifted to clip back above the ground collider. They certainly won't ever make a a VTOL you can fly around at 5,000 feet I'm afraid - it would need a totally different mechanic for that, and, well: wings ;)

Gaalidas, you'll find that the RepulsorTest module has 64m height. It ought to be a slightly old copy of the normal class that I was going to delete, but changed for something Madrias was playing with.

Strength, I can do something about, I'll modify the ranges for next release if people are finding they need more.

Just tested the icon size fix, which is working perfectly!

http://i.imgur.com/hbzVwkS.png

Makes sense. If it's just to do with vessel lengths vs. wheel heights, does that mean that (in theory) if you built a perfectly proportioned vehicle with repulsors, and then scaled the whole thing up, it would work? If it's not absolute numbers that matter, but only proportions, then maybe the repulsor's range of heights could be calculated on the fly from a measurement of the vessel length...? If that's even possible

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Given enough time and energy, all should be possible. Doable at this time, however? Not likely.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Makes sense. If it's just to do with vessel lengths vs. wheel heights, does that mean that (in theory) if you built a perfectly proportioned vehicle with repulsors, and then scaled the whole thing up, it would work? If it's not absolute numbers that matter, but only proportions, then maybe the repulsor's range of heights could be calculated on the fly from a measurement of the vessel length...? If that's even possible

Yes and no. The parts are built so the "field" (4 raycasts) splays out a little, which works for how they're set up at the moment. From my own messing around, stability doesn't seem to be linearly related to the height / length ratio either, and what you end up with is stuff that just 'trips' over at the slightest hint of tilt. The only idea I have is to construct a repulsor that makes the raycast look constantly at the ground, and therefore perpendicular to it. Not really sure how to do that yet, but it ought to make an insanely stable repulsor.

Edited by lo-fi
Epic predictive text error

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes and no. The parts are built so the "field" (4 raycasts) splays out a little, which works for how they're set up at the moment. From my own messing around, stability doesn't seem to be linearly related to the height / length ratio either, and what you end up with is stuff that just 'trips' over at the slightest hint of tilt. The only idea I have is to construct a repulsor that makes the raycast look constantly at the ground, and therefore perpendicular to it. Not really sure how to do that yet, but it ought to make an insanely stable repulsor.

Might be a good second project for you once you have the rest of this stuff stable and released. We'll call it the "Kerbal Foundries Ultimate Stability Initiative (KFUSI)." That, and the "Kerbal Foundries Crawler Steering Initiative (KFCSI)."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anybody know how useful these are for post-deorbit deceleration? If i set them to their highest height setting and come down perpendicularly, will they "catch" me and prevent my spacecraft from making another crater on Duna?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Does anybody know how useful these are for post-deorbit deceleration? If i set them to their highest height setting and come down perpendicularly, will they "catch" me and prevent my spacecraft from making another crater on Duna?
They've got 8m range, however fast you're going you'll stop quickly, the repulsor will survive and would of done it's job but the rapid deceleration disintegrates the craft or at least parts of it if your moving at a reasonable speed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do believe Madrias had some success with repulsors and some kind of lithobraking manoeuvre, but I have no idea exactly what he was doing...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ah yes, another thing I need to sort out...

One of many. We're gonna keep you busy until you turn back to drinking just to escape us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They've got 8m range, however fast you're going you'll stop quickly, the repulsor will survive and would of done it's job but the rapid deceleration disintegrates the craft or at least parts of it if your moving at a reasonable speed.

I can't speak for de-orbiting, but I've done a lot of high-altitude jumps with hovercraft using the repulsors.

And I have the explosion video footage to prove it. :P

If you come down hard, the repulsors working correctly are the least of your concerns. And there's only so much struts can do to help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One of many. We're gonna keep you busy until you turn back to drinking just to escape us.

You've got it all the wrong way round. I come here to escape the mad train-wreck shenanigans I keep creating IRL ;)

I can't speak for de-orbiting, but I've done a lot of high-altitude jumps with hovercraft using the repulsors.

And I have the explosion video footage to prove it. :P

If you come down hard, the repulsors working correctly are the least of your concerns. And there's only so much struts can do to help.

Love the Tom and Jerry style soundtrack to this video of yours..

Was this experiment inspired by one of our silly conversations here, by any chance? Very cool anyway, enjoyed nosing through your tumblr :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I do believe Madrias had some success with repulsors and some kind of lithobraking manoeuvre, but I have no idea exactly what he was doing...

Low-velocity anti-lithobraking devices. You put 'em on things like Mun landers and send 'em to places with low gravity and they'll save your butt if you're slowed down a good bit. No more smashed landing legs, busted engines, etc. Just drop your repulsor hover height and you'll settle down to a nice landing.

I've always had problems with landing on other worlds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That video has got to be based on some of our weird conversations here. Or at least inspired by the philosophy of kerbal landings where we can say that "a crash landing is still, in every practical and rational aspect, a landing. Safety is not our concern here, only the technicalities of landing a craft successfully. We'll worry about safety when someone complains about it... and the complainer can be our first test subject."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Low-velocity anti-lithobraking devices.

I think that may have to go in the config :D

That video has got to be based on some of our weird conversations here. Or at least inspired by the philosophy of kerbal landings where we can say that "a crash landing is still, in every practical and rational aspect, a landing. Safety is not our concern here, only the technicalities of landing a craft successfully. We'll worry about safety when someone complains about it... and the complainer can be our first test subject."

True, true. And it's always the interns...

Taking a while to get myself back up to speed with what I was doing. Easing myself back in with some plugin work and a landing leg the likes of which KSP hasn't yet seen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, go for it! Change everything... again! yeah!

I've become a little burnt out on kerbal killing... uhh I mean... science! yeah, that's it. it's taking me some time just to get to a point where I want to let it try to boot up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dumb question, but I noticed with the tracks, that in the VAB, the "box" that the medium tracks occupies when you mouse over the craft is much bigger than the tracks themselves. Other than that, I can't wait for little tracks for tiny rovers, and i love the massive tracks for making "portable" launchpads!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Happens to us all, Gaalidas. Even the poor Kerbals need a break from comedic death now and again...

Cheers wallawallaman :) Not a dumb question at all it could be something I've totally missed, though I'm not quite sure what you mean?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Happens to us all, Gaalidas. Even the poor Kerbals need a break from comedic death now and again...

Cheers wallawallaman :) Not a dumb question at all it could be something I've totally missed, though I'm not quite sure what you mean?

I believe walla means the bug where the part icon is really small.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ohhh! Read a few posts back, the fix will be in the next release :) There's a bug with bounds detection for skinned meshes (drives the mesh deformation for the tracks, for those who don't know), which is why they appear tiny in the editor. xEvilReeperx was kind enough to work out a fix :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, it is not the icon bug thats "bugging" me. (haha!)

I uploaded a screen shot that hopefully shows what I mean.yvsDC68

The red circle is where my mouse is, which didn't show up on the screen shot. See how the tracks are still selected? The issue, is that the bounds of that part, the medium track, seem to be larger than the visual model, at least on the up-down axis. This wouldn't be a big deal, if putting batteries and structural panels too close to the tracks didn't periodically cause them to vibrate the craft to bits. It seems to me that when that happens, there is an invisible chunk clipping with the rest off the structure, causing issues. Sorry for not explaining better earlier, I was at work...

Still one of my favorite mods, and it's not even done!

http://imgur.com/yvsDC68

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah ha. Now that's one I haven't seen before! Cheers, I'll have a look and see whether the latest version has the collider set up the same way - I suspect not, as I've revised things about three times since the last release. If it's something I can issue a hotfix for I'll do so :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.