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Sciences (plural)


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Quick thought I just had, we have 'science' points at the moment, but nothing specific. Something I'd like to see is a couple of different sciences, so parts can require differing amounts of each to unlock. 3 of them for example, physics, chemistry and biology. Chemistry would be more useful for fuel storage, physics for engines, biology for hab modules, etc. and they would each be gathered in differing ways. Physics through physical data readings (temp, pressure, gravity, etc), chemistry through materials science (mat. bay, mystery goo) and biology by subjecting Kerbals to various environments and bringing them back alive.

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This does seem pretty cool, and it would make science collection more realistic, but once funds (and reputation?) are implemented won't there be too many things to watch? New players might be overwhelmed if the R&D facility becomes filled with four different point counters.

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I do like the idea of 3 different ways of getting science, but i do agree with Nikola, it may get overwhelming for new players.

The game is already about rocket science, and getting science now may seem easy once you know how to play, but getting to orbit is still a daunting task for new players.

I would like to see how the next update changes things. I do feel like your idea could fit well into the game, but it would have to be tweaked to not overwhelm players. If anything it would make a great Mod once the game is more along in its development.

Some tweaks could be adding new forms of science only later in the tech tree, to unlock specialized parts.

All in all the current system should be interesting for a while once the other two primary forms of currency are added.

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I do like the idea of 3 different ways of getting science, but i do agree with Nikola, it may get overwhelming for new players.

The game is already about rocket science, and getting science now may seem easy once you know how to play, but getting to orbit is still a daunting task for new players.

I would like to see how the next update changes things. I do feel like your idea could fit well into the game, but it would have to be tweaked to not overwhelm players. If anything it would make a great Mod once the game is more along in its development.

Some tweaks could be adding new forms of science only later in the tech tree, to unlock specialized parts.

All in all the current system should be interesting for a while once the other two primary forms of currency are added.

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I like this idea - with new players in mind it would make sense for it to be apart of some difficulty system. Generic science on easy, Complex science on realisim mode. Or something like that.

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I really like this idea. it would really give greater purpose to building more specialized missions to far flung planets and muns and building more varied and less common mission types.

eg:

PHYSICS SCIENCE: you could build a seismic sensing lander and an impactor (or 10). or simply conduct experiments under high G forces. ect.

BIO SCIENCE: I would think bio science is almost exclusively on Kerbin. this would be your early-game source of bio science.

once all the locations on kerbin have been exhausted you could then take "bio experiment packages" (eg: plants, bacteria, creatures and of-course Kermen.) to various locations in space to measure the effects on them.

CHEM SCIENCE: could be from surface samples, fluid samples, atmospheric samples. etc.

different experiments/reports/samples could give a mixture of CHEM/BIO/PHYS Science points.

this adds so much more potential for career mode story telling too.

Edited by Capt Snuggler
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There seems to be a lot of concern for new players. The thing here is that the game is not friendly to beginners. At all. If you don't do any research before playing the game, you might be able to launch a rocket after loads of attempts. You still would have no idea about science, or even right-clicking.

The tutorials are outdated and incomplete (part 2 of the Mun landing tutorial, anyone?) to top it all off.

With that lack of help for new players, maybe we shouldn't be worrying about them so much.

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I don't think this would be a good idea. Science is sketchy enough on how it works and the like of it and you want to make it harder to figure out? It's better to just embrace the KiSS concept instead of introducing fake balance because of people that know how to exploit the current science system.

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I don't think this would be a good idea. Science is sketchy enough on how it works and the like of it and you want to make it harder to figure out? It's better to just embrace the KiSS concept instead of introducing fake balance because of people that know how to exploit the current science system.

Science is easy, that's the problem. It's not fake balance, it's just regular old balance. It makes research specific to future missions you want to carry out, rather than "just slap 40 goo containers on it and hope for the best".

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Science isn't supposed to be the whole game progression mechanic, at least not yet. From my memory, Harv's said several times that he wants the Tech Tree to be primarily a tutorial mechanic -- to get new users acquainted with the different parts and their myriad uses, rather than throwing every part at them all at once and overwhelming them.

I do hope science becomes something a little more expansive post-tech-tree in the future, though.

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I think the idea of science can and should be part of the learning about space science that KSP provides.

One of the ways that we should be able to raise money in career is by doing science, so that would be a post-tech tree use for it. But having it be a mined resource with severely diminishing returns that go to zero isn't really ideal either.

Basically why you do the science and how you do it would be the key thing I'd be looking at. Why might you want to set up a base? Why are surface landings so valuable? Why is a Kerbal better than a probe? I think maybe we should be able to collect items, such as surface samples... but maybe more kinds of samples maybe some mechanic where we can look for different things around our landing zone on EVA much like what the astronauts on the moon did. This could probably be procedurally generated and would be different at each landing site.

I would like to see measurements from return trips regain their value because repetition is important in science. Comparing results over time is critical. Maybe even be even MORE valuable on that second or third trip because you are increasing the number of data points. Maybe even be directed to new sites because of what you learned the first time. That the big science doesn't come from the first flight, but a later one as the world is studied and better samples and measurements are returned based on what you're learning.

I think some science like the gravity scan should be about mapping and remaining on station. I don't like the current mechanic of taking lots and lots of gravity scans. I think you should have a total you can get if you have a complete map, and any transmissions are partials up until that total. Then you can scan it again at a certain time interval later and you can get more science for the repeated measurement. Some measurements we'll find do not change over time and you cannot get more science over a certain maximum amount.

That's one thing that could certainly be good is value of remaining on station. So building a space-station or a surface base makes certain experiments or contracts possible.

I think splitting it out into separate fields is unnecessary. Biology is chemistry is physics. They're one in the same really (because really everything is physics). I think it's more important to find out what those experiments are then design missions to best do those rather than a 1 size fits all space craft that can extract all the science from a biome and sometimes worlds even with multiple biomes in a single flight. There should be a reason to keep visiting the Mun and Minmus rather than testing new designs.

All of these ideas are looking at a non-tech tree implementation of science mostly. I know I'm starting to find less of a point to going places because I've read all the funny messages from the community science project and I've got a good way to max stuff out. Land, collect, take off, dock, repeat. I'd like to have a good reason to stay down for a little bit and more stuff to do once landed.

Edited by helaeon
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I think once contracts arrive the generic "science" will make a bit more sense. The Kerbals behind the scenes, be they physicists, chemists, biologists, or aromatherapists, decide they want X experiment from Y location. As in real life, you're just an engineer/pilot/mission controller, you do your job of getting the payload to where it needs to go, and doing what the scientists want it to, you don't really worry about the reasoning behind it.

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I think once contracts arrive the generic "science" will make a bit more sense. The Kerbals behind the scenes, be they physicists, chemists, biologists, or aromatherapists, decide they want X experiment from Y location. As in real life, you're just an engineer/pilot/mission controller, you do your job of getting the payload to where it needs to go, and doing what the scientists want it to, you don't really worry about the reasoning behind it.

That could be done with a generic 'contract payload' part though rather than experiments. If NASA launches a satellite for someone, NASA doesn't get the science from it, the company does. NASA gets the money for a launch, which is what KSP should do really. Contracts for money, science for parts.

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I would imagine that the first few nodes on the tech tree would be as they are now where any experiment gets you an overall science point (e.g. 1Bio + 1Chem + 1Phys), but then after a few nodes the tech tree could branch off into Biology, Chemistry and Physics :)

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Different sciences are a super cool idea. What I definitely would like to see are (genetic) biological experiments which unlocks biological parts. Bring genetic engineered plants to a planet and start terraforming. Ship "supplies" to a moon/planet and use them to build hemispheres which are filled with oxygen generated by biological material. Right now there is not so much to do on planets.

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I think terraforming's beyond the scope of the game, but I would like to see large (rover-sized) permanent experiments like small greenhouses. Actually requiring a Kerbal to get out and collect samples from permanent experiments would even it out real nice, and having something that changes visually over time would look really good.

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