HarvesteR's First Contract Update Update #3

[SQUAD]

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<p>Hi again,<br/><br/> As I mentioned in this week’s dev blog, we’ve got quite a bit of stuff done in the game to list there, so here’s a new update on some of the things you can expect for <em>Kerbal Space Program: First Contract</em> (update 0.24). <br/><br/><br/><strong>* Contracts:</strong><br/> You probably know about this one already. The Mission Control Facility at the space center now lets you take on contracts to earn Funds, Science and Reputation. <br/><br/><strong>* Budget Essentials:</strong><br/> Career Mode is greatly expanded now by the addition of Funds and Reputation. Funds are required to launch vessels, and reputation is earned (and lost) by doing contracts (or failing them). In this release, your reputation is already used to regulate the level and amount of contracts offered you. Lower reputation means fewer and less prestigious contract offers, while high reputation means more and more ambitious proposals.<br/><br/><strong>* Vessel Recovery:</strong><br/> Vessel recovery is also making its first appearance. Although still not complete, the new recovery system now lets you reclaim some of the cost of all landed parts, and any resources they still contain. The Science Summary Dialog of previous versions has been overhauled to also include information about recovered parts and crew.<br/><br/><strong>* New UI Toolbar:</strong><br/> User interfaces in the game have been vastly overhauled, but the largest addition is the new app toolbar, which can be seen in most scenes now, and holds buttons to flip between the messages, resources, currencies and contract panels. Also, it’s mod-friendly.<br/><br/><strong>* New MonoPropellant-Powered Engine and LFO-Powered RCS Thrusters:</strong><br/> The O-10 MonoPropellant Engine is a standard engine linked to main throttle controls, but powered by MonoProp. The Vernier Engine, conversely, is a Liquid Fuel+Oxidizer powered RCS unit. These should be interesting new additions to the stock parts set.<br/><br/><strong>* Revised Tech Tree Layout:</strong><br/> To better fit the new engines above, we’ve updated the tech tree, giving the ‘flight control’ type nodes a much more logical progression, and added new paths to expand your way through the tree more freely.<br/><br/><strong>* Repurposed Engine Nacelle parts:</strong><br/> Those grey, largely useless engine body sections are now given new purpose as combination air intake + fuel tank units, making them a lot more useful for building spaceplanes. <br/><br/><br/> There are many more features, tweaks and fixes all around, but these are the highlights.<br/><br/> All in all, I’m very glad we decided to push this update further. The difference between the state of the game now compared to when we were doing the first round of experimentals is huge. It’s definitely safe to say it was time well spent.<br/><br/><br/> Cheers</p>

[Myrten]

Please give any estimates when we can expect release, I can't wait

[LethalDose]

Will we have to start new saves to access contracts, new tech tree, etc?

[JimmyAgent007]

Does recovery extend to parts we drop during launch?

[Sun]

IMO Now, I think the least developed thing in the game is the solar system. I'm pretty sure we're ready for new stock planets.

[Apollo13]

Thank you for posting this, Felipe. Unlike the largely useless Tuesday Dev Notes, you've provided a lot of solid information here.

Will we have to start new saves to access contracts, new tech tree, etc?

I've completed the Tech Tree. However, I (like many others), will begin anew with a new career.

Does recovery extend to parts we drop during launch?

Probably if you have sufficient number of parachutes attached to the jettisoned part (similar to how MCE handles recovery).

IMO Now, I think the least developed thing in the game is the solar system. I'm pretty sure we're ready for new stock planets.

I look forward to the day when there will be other solar systems to travel to (or at least provide mod support to do this).

Edited July 9, 2014 by Apollo13

[liweih]

So eager to see 0.24. Very good.

[MidwestB]

...Although still not complete, the new recovery system now lets you reclaim some of the cost of all landed parts, and any resources they still contain...

So, when you come in for a splash landing and half of your mystery goo containers and the Science Jr. pop off, the science in them can now be recovered?

[Seshins]

Its great to see the Dev's putting more info out there as of late. Really look forward to this update, it will completely change the game for me. Keep up the good work guys!

[Apollyon]

I have one question . . .

* Vessel Recovery: Vessel recovery is also making its first appearance. Although still not complete, the new recovery system now lets you reclaim some of the cost of all landed parts, and any resources they still contain.

*New UI Toolbar: User interfaces in the game have been vastly overhauled, but the largest addition is the new app toolbar, which can be seen in most scenes now, and holds buttons to flip between the messages, resources, currencies and contract panels. Also, it’s mod-friendly.

RESOURCES?! Are these resources things such as oxidizer, fuel and monopropellant? Also, If they can be "recovered" does that mean that even at the KSC you will have a finite supply of these resources?? Or will you merely get some cash for the amount of oxidizer, fuel, monopropellant you recover?

Have any new resources been added to the game??

[JimmyAgent007]

So, when you come in for a splash landing and half of your mystery goo containers and the Science Jr. pop off, the science in them can now be recovered?

You can already recover the science from parts that pop off, as long as they havent blown up.

[Holyvision]

Can't wait to help thoroughly break-in .24! Hope it releases very, very soon!!!

[Fyrem]

Can't wait to help thoroughly break-in .24! Hope it releases very, very soon!!!

today would be nice...

ok, tomorrow.

[cpast]

RESOURCES?! Are these resources things such as oxidizer, fuel and monopropellant? Also, If they can be "recovered" does that mean that even at the KSC you will have a finite supply of these resources?? Or will you merely get some cash for the amount of oxidizer, fuel, monopropellant you recover?

Have any new resources been added to the game??

"Resources" is the term used to describe things that show up in the appropriately-named resource panel, helpfully labeled "resources" in the UI. It includes things such as liquid fuel, oxidizer, monopropellant, solid fuel, intake air, xenon, and electricity. It can also contain things added by mods, both traditional resources (like in life support mods) and things which just use it for various auxiliary purposes (e.g. Eurekas in Station Science). It is nothing new in KSP.

The way I read that line is that "you reclaim some of the cost of {all landed parts, and any resources they still contain}"; you have no limited supply, you just get your money back.

[greg12]

The way I read that line is that "you reclaim some of the cost of {all landed parts, and any resources they still contain}"; you have no limited supply, you just get your money back.

So basically if you have Kethane you can sell fuel for KSC for money? Hey truckers here I come!

[BudgetHedgehog]

Thinking about SSTO spaceplanes and such.. fully reusable things, basically. Well, seeing as I already have the parts, I don't want to recover them and get a partial refund, I want to use them instead. They're already there, I've already bought them - to fly this thing again, I'd have to recover, get a partial refund and then buy the same parts again at full price, even though they were entirely usable 30 seconds ago, is that right? So unless I refuel/swap payload on the runway, I'm going to be losing money every time I use this plane, despite the fact that the major advantage of them is precisely the fact that they are reusable.

I know that I'd be getting more of a refund than if it were an equivalent rocket-based mission (expensive jets and stuff, they're all recovered with the SSTO) considering the recovery and partial refund of just the command pod (or if it's a probe mission, maybe nothing) so I suppose the pertinent question is: how much is 'partial'? 25%? 80%?

Slightly unrelated, but will there a way to gain money outside of contracts? Because contracts were said to be optional - is that still applicable? If I opt out of contracts (for arguments sake), how will I get money to launch things?

All things considered though, looking forward to the revised tech tree and I'll actually have a reason to put those nacelle thingies on planes now. Gonna be a beast of a update, that's for sure.

[regex]

Slightly unrelated, but will there a way to gain money outside of contracts? Because contracts were said to be optional - is that still applicable? If I opt out of contracts (for arguments sake), how will I get money to launch things?

I have a sinking feeling that we're going to have to wait until 0.25 for that, or that an essential sandbox element has been removed from the game. Which would be really terrible for this game.

[JimmyAgent007]

all three currencies, science, rep, and funds should be exchangeable in some manner according to previous statements.

[cpast]

I have a sinking feeling that we're going to have to wait until 0.25 for that, or that an essential sandbox element has been removed from the game. Which would be really terrible for this game.

Yeah, I'd hope there are ways to leverage almost any mission strategy you want into money (excluding things like "smash SRBs at high speed into KSC repeatedly", which should *not* be a valid way to make money).

[regex]

Yeah, I'd hope there are ways to leverage almost any mission strategy you want into money (excluding things like "smash SRBs at high speed into KSC repeatedly", which should *not* be a valid way to make money).

It'd also be pretty sad if, for instance, I made it to Moho and returned from a landing but my reputation wouldn't generate any Moho missions because I'd never done any contracts... I agree and really hope doing rote tasks for talking heads isn't the only way to approach career mode.

[Guest]

First of all, thanks to Harvester for the update and the hard work in getting the game to this point. I'm really excited to finally see the implementation of economics and management and strategy added to the stock game.

Like ObsessedWithKSP, I am also concerned with partial refunds for parts that are returned to KSC after a mission that are still fully functional. It makes sense to me to have costs associated with transportation of parts based on distance from KSC, or even more extra costs if it's a splash landing. However,i f I land my plane on the runway or my rocket on the VAB or launch pad, I feel I should be rewarded with a full refund for reusable parts.

[Sandworm]

Like ObsessedWithKSP, I am also concerned with partial refunds for parts that are returned to KSC after a mission that are still fully functional. It makes sense to me to have costs associated with transportation of parts based on distance from KSC, or even more extra costs if it's a splash landing. However,i f I land my plane on the runway or my rocket on the VAB or launch pad, I feel I should be rewarded with a full refund for reusable parts.

Why a full refund? Ever looked at how much it cost to return a shuttle to service after a flight? Taken as a whole program, the re-usability of shuttle was in fact a net loss over single-use rockets. Had shuttles been turned around in weeks rather than months there might have been a hope of profitability, but that dream died very early in the program.

Refunds for landed parts might make for fun gameplay, but in reality very very few parts from spacecraft have ever been used more than once (ie only the shuttle orbiter and a few srbs). Nobody has ever reused fuel from one flight to another. Any return for a capsule, splashed or otherwise, is all about gameplay and nothing to do with simulation.

[federicoaa]

I wonder if the toolbar Harvester is referring will replace the toolbar mod

[KaBob]

A 100% refund doesn't make sense because even in the best case scenarios your ship/plane is going to have sustained wear. Maybe like a 98% refund at most for a perfect landing. Think of it as a maintenance cost.

[Guest]

Why a full refund? Ever looked at how much it cost to return a shuttle to service after a flight? Taken as a whole program, the re-usability of shuttle was in fact a net loss over single-use rockets. Had shuttles been turned around in weeks rather than months there might have been a hope of profitability, but that dream died very early in the program.

Refunds for landed parts might make for fun gameplay, but in reality very very few parts from spacecraft have ever been used more than once (ie only the shuttle orbiter and a few srbs). Nobody has ever reused fuel from one flight to another. Any return for a capsule, splashed or otherwise, is all about gameplay and nothing to do with simulation.

Those are excellent points that I agree with, Sandworm. But the way the game is now, it doesn't have random failure or part degradation. I can land and take off again as many times as I want in the world of KSP, so long as I have fuel left. Why should I pay a penalty just for hitting the recover button? When things like deadly reentry are implemented, then yeah, you shouldn't get a full refund for a scorched heat shield. But in the meantime, with what's currently available, if I land at KSC, instead of the opposite side of Kerbin, I feel like it should come with a reward.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Otis
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