[1.1.3] Surface Experiment Pack - EVA science for KIS/KAS (v1.4.2 6/30/2016) *Now with less explosions*

[MalevolentNinja]

20 hours ago, Kerbonaut257 said:

What am I supposed to do to keep experiments from EXPLODING

 

19 hours ago, Ruedii said:

I recommend securing your plug to a ground base

 

2 minutes ago, Kerbonaut257 said:

No offense but you literally didn't answer any of my questions. I didn't ask anything about connections breaking...

He gave you the answer, did you even try it?

[Kerbonaut257]

6 hours ago, MalevolentNinja said:

 

 

He gave you the answer, did you even try it?

No he didn't. I was asking first of all how to keep the experiments from exploding, not the plugs. And "ground base" doesn't mean anything to me. I don't think I have that.

And the second question he didn't answer at all, which was asking about the battery packs.

[CobaltWolf]

10 minutes ago, Kerbonaut257 said:

No he didn't. I was asking first of all how to keep the experiments from exploding, not the plugs. And "ground base" doesn't mean anything to me. I don't think I have that.

And the second question he didn't answer at all, which was asking about the battery packs.

He meant the KIS ground base, it's... idk. A grey concrete slab? Personally I dislike the look when people put their stuff on it (I like the IRL look of just shoving the feet into the lunar dust until they don't tip over) but I also don't actually play with the mod, sooooo... I still haven't found a solution for the whole 'experiments explode when you use them' thing. I wonder what the difference is between them and the KIS ground base.

And the battery packs *should* work, or rather, they *do* on my end. Do you have any more information? Stuff like a relevant log file perhaps, what version of all the relevant mods you're running, etc?

 

[rasta013]

 

On 6/11/2016 at 9:14 PM, Calvin_Maclure said:

I rather like your thinking. I really hate it when you run an experiment, and its instantly done. I especially hate it when you have a satellite up in orbit to perform an analysis, and its instantly over with. Feels unfortunate. What you're suggesting adds a good deal of depth , imo. 

CM

 

@Ruedii, @Calvin_Maclure, @CobaltWolf, @DStaal

As a side note if you're looking to add more extended research times into your science game, besides HabTech, MOLE and sort of SCANSat, you've also got Station Science (massive lab modules extremely long duration experiments) and Nehemiah's Orbital Science (beginning Gemini type science to extended, long term multi-lab based research) both of which have been revived for 1.1.2.  This will add a great deal of depth to the game in terms of time based research.  If you're interested in developing further plug-ins to support this type of game play both of these may also be very good places to start.

3 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

I still haven't found a solution for the whole 'experiments explode when you use them' thing. I wonder what the difference is between them and the KIS ground base.

It's a matter of the physics engine detecting the pieces of the parts and where they are situated.  When attached directly to the ground, the engine frequently detects the SEP modules as violating physics by clipping through the ground and it explodes them.  When attached to the base (which doesn't ever seem to violate anything) they aren't clipping so...no boomy explodey blowing uppie kinds of things happening.  

EDIT: You know, when I re-read your question I realized I think you were asking the difference between the conical 4/8 sided ground base and the concrete slab.  Weight and geometry.  The ground base is slightly heavier (iirc) and has those 4 extra kind of 1/2 sized side panels on a 45^o angle.

Edited June 13, 2016 by rasta013
Because I'm a dumbass

[Drew Kerman]

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

I wonder what the difference is between them and the KIS ground base.

have you asked @IgorZ ?

Edited June 13, 2016 by Gaiiden

[VaPaL]

@CobaltWolf I start having problems with the battery, when all plugs are connected it freaks out, starts shaking, them floating, explodes some experiments, go flying away with or without some experiments connected to it. It started since the last "update". Before, when you connected the first plug, it used to float a bit them settle down and was ok. Sometimes the experiments didn't connected to the central station through it, but the work arround was just unlink, disconnect the plug and redo it. I think, maybe, the plug is to wide and touches the ground, the colliders intersection may cause this, just a guess though. Next time this happens I'll take some screenshots.

 

EDIT: Heres a screenshot form the 'not connected with central station' problem, it was from 1.1.0, but happens sometimes in 1.1.2, it's more commom when you load a quicksave.

Edited June 13, 2016 by VaPaL

[Toomuch77]

@CobaltWolf I have the same problem with the battery. When I connect the first plug, it loses contact to the ground and starts to hover close to the ground as @VaPaL mentioned.

To save resources I collect and store the modules back in a container to use them again – but while dismantling the Central Station, it also started to freak out a couple of times (not every time) and then floats away (shaking) and explodes.

I also think, that the “SEP-S06 Passive Seismic Experiment” and the “SEP-R01 Retroreflector” are save to place on the ground, as far as I can tell after around 10 experiments on Mun and Minmus. All other experiments are performed on only two KIS Ground Bases to save weight and storage room.

Edited June 13, 2016 by Toomuch77

[CobaltWolf]

@Toomuch77 @VaPaL @p1t1o @rasta013 @Gaiiden etc etc

Another small update on the Github, I've attempted to fix the issues recently mentioned concerning the power station breaking. Github changelog is below, please download the master and test it out - See my post a couple days ago if you don't know how to do that. I am looking into the exploding experiments again - if indeed only certain ones are being affected, I want to find out why. @IgorZ thought (back when this issue surfaced) that it was due to the interaction of the colliders and the attach node placement. Which experiments are particularly prone to exploding? I'll look at them first.

Fix for issue #4 SWS is no longer stackable
Fix for issue #10 Power station has fixed attach rules.

Shifted the lower plugs on the power station up a bit to reduce clipping
with the ground.
Made the collider on the plug smaller - it was larger than the model
which likely contributed to popping the power stations off the ground.
Added a bit more in the form of explanation to the central station and
plug part cfgs.

[VaPaL]

@CobaltWolf Will download it latter, but during the week my time is limited, probably will only make proper test on the weekend. I don't remember now, but I think that on the image I posted above, I tested one by one to see which one would explode or not, after that I started putting all on concrete bases. What's odd is that on my first try on Kerbin and on Mun, none exploded.

[CobaltWolf]

Eff this... #ITriedForYourSins

[CobaltWolf]

WIP models for the Camera (points back towards the SEP to record your shenanigans) and the UV Telescope (Technically not part of the ALSEP, but hey).

EDIT:
And here's some new hand tools, with the screwdriver for scale. They're probably a bit big at the moment but you get the idea.

ALSO, we need more ideas for atmospheric experiments! If you have any ideas for experiments that would be SPECIFIC to planets with atmosphere, that would be great! A number of the experiments for SEP ONLY work on atmosphere-less bodies, which means they give significantly more science than atmospheric bodies.

Edited June 17, 2016 by CobaltWolf

[Kerbas_ad_astra]

How about a weather sock fiber-matrix atmospheric sample collector?

[500Motels]

 

7 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

WIP models for the Camera (points back towards the SEP to record your shenanigans) and the UV Telescope (Technically not part of the ALSEP, but hey).

*snip'

EDIT:
And here's some new hand tools, with the screwdriver for scale. They're probably a bit big at the moment but you get the idea.

*snip*

ALSO, we need more ideas for atmospheric experiments! If you have any ideas for experiments that would be SPECIFIC to planets with atmosphere, that would be great! A number of the experiments for SEP ONLY work on atmosphere-less bodies, which means they give significantly more science than atmospheric bodies.

Looking great! Where did you get the idea for the UV telescope?

And how about something like this for another atmospheric experiment? First, the instrument could look for C02, and then check if the 02 output of the conversion is satisfactory... or something.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Oxygen_ISRU_Experiment

[CobaltWolf]

1 hour ago, 500Motels said:

Looking great! Where did you get the idea for the UV telescope?

It was a real thing!

It got brought on Apollo 16. It wasn't left connected to the Central Station so it wasn't considered part of ALSEP.

1 hour ago, Kerbas_ad_astra said:

How about a weather sock fiber-matrix atmospheric sample collector?

1 hour ago, 500Motels said:

And how about something like this for another atmospheric experiment? First, the instrument could look for C02, and then check if the 02 output of the conversion is satisfactory... or something.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Oxygen_ISRU_Experiment

We already have a wind speed indicator in the weather station, along with a barometer and humidity detector.

I'll look into the Oxygen thing.

[Rafael acevedo]

47 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

It was a real thing!

It got brought on Apollo 16. It wasn't left connected to the Central Station so it wasn't considered part of ALSEP.

We already have a wind speed indicator in the weather station, along with a barometer and humidity detector.

I'll look into the Oxygen thing.

You can always do the venera Venus probe surface experiments, the sticky mortar comes to mind.  Basically the probe sires from a mortar like device a plumb bob and sticky wire, it would then retract the wire and collect all the soil attached to it .

[DiceCaller]

Maybe not part of the weather station, a rain gauge...

[VaPaL]

32 minutes ago, DiceCaller said:

Maybe not part of the weather station, a rain gauge...

This would be nice for a long term experiment! Were you leave it ther for a few days them recover data or transmit it

 

EDIT: @CobaltWolf My PC was giving me trouble this weekend so I hadn't had a chance to do anytesting

Edited June 19, 2016 by VaPaL

[Rafael acevedo]

On ‎6‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 0:03 PM, CobaltWolf said:

ALSO, we need more ideas for atmospheric experiments! If you have any ideas for experiments that would be SPECIFIC to planets with atmosphere, that would be great! A number of the experiments for SEP ONLY work on atmosphere-less bodies, which means they give significantly more science than atmospheric bodies.

OK here is my idea based on our own weather experiments

Kerbal Radiosonde Atmospheric Balloon Boosted Extraplanetary Experiment (KRABEE) or Kerbal Atmosphere and Particle Observations and Weather (KAPOW)- Requires a

Experiment package consist of a rectangular box (see Drawings) with two doors on top and a plug connector on one end for EC/communications with base station. The box houses the following Components inside;

1. Kerbal Atmospheric Balloon Lifted On-board Observatory for Exoplanet Ylem (KABLOOEY)- Hydorogen weather balloon with a parachute, Radiosonde and aerial particulate collector (total of 10 on board/ magazine)) it takes 1400 grams of hydrogen to fill, capacity can be refilled by Scientist Kerbal

2. Refillable Hydrogen Ranks (14000 Grams capacity)- enough hydrogen for 10 Kablooey's

3. Laser observation system for experiment instruments tracking- (LOSE-IT)- Laser and optical 3 Axis theodolite utilized to Track the Kablooey flight and get accurate speed, elevation and distance measurements, instrument retracts into the (KRABEE/KAPOW) when not in used or in transport


The purpose of the experiment is to measure Atm pressure, density, humidity, temperature , and wind speed at different altitudes in exoplanets and moons with atmospheres, additionally the Kablooey collects airborne particulate for determination of atmospheric composition in parts per million (for example it might determine that in duna the atmosphere contains 10 ppm of dirt at 5000 meters). The Kablooey makes these measurements at 1000 meters intervals.  The Lose it can receive and track the kablooey's speed, altitude and direction, and receives Pressure, density, humidity, temperature readings for analysis by the base station for weather determination.  For particulate readings the Kablooey needs to be recovered. The Kablooey has a enough ec to power a locator beacon for 10 kerbal days. The Kablooeys balloon are rated to 10^25 Kilo pascals at which time it should blow up releasing the radiosonde to fall back in a parachute.

The experiment is based on actual earth based weather and particulate collection experiments used for weather prediction and tracking.

 

 

 

 

[CobaltWolf]

Wow that sounds really cool! Unfortunately it also sounds a bit outside the scope of what can be done right now. Unless a dedicated coder joins the project we can't make things much more complex than they are now. How many parts is that supposed to be? Also,

12 minutes ago, Rafael acevedo said:

 

ಠ_ಠ

[Rafael acevedo]

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

Wow that sounds really cool! Unfortunately it also sounds a bit outside the scope of what can be done right now. Unless a dedicated coder joins the project we can't make things much more complex than they are now. How many parts is that supposed to be? Also,

ಠ_ಠ

I thought about it as a single part, but it will probably be easier to code as two parts, the Kablooey and the lose it. Thought about it and there might be a way to simulate the experiment with a lot less coding. It will be a question of animation and simulation.

Edited June 21, 2016 by Rafael acevedo

[AlbertKermin]

It's possible we could use an animation of the weather balloon flying off to infinity from the weather balloon launcher, and then run the experiment on the balloon tracker?

[CobaltWolf]

18 minutes ago, AlbertKermin said:

It's possible we could use an animation of the weather balloon flying off to infinity from the weather balloon launcher, and then run the experiment on the balloon tracker?

We could. I don't think there's a way to require the balloon to run first though.

[DiceCaller]

4 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

We could. I don't think there's a way to require the balloon to run first though.

You could build in a delay like you have with the science experiments in BDB (radiometer, particle impact collector, etc.).  Just make it a longer delay and run the animation while it waits....  I am not a programmer, just a fan of your work.

[Rafael acevedo]

10 minutes ago, DiceCaller said:

You could build in a delay like you have with the science experiments in BDB (radiometer, particle impact collector, etc.).  Just make it a longer delay and run the animation while it waits....  I am not a programmer, just a fan of your work.

I can probably get you a delay table from my experience leading a field artillery metereoligical section

[CobaltWolf]

14 minutes ago, Rafael acevedo said:

I can probably get you a delay table from my experience leading a field artillery metereoligical section

... I'm probably going to just make it last like 10 seconds haha. But I like that idea.