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ferram4

[0.90]NEAR: A Simpler Aerodynamics Model v1.3.1 12/16/14

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Hey, Ferram? I was wondering, is there any way to counter-act the intense wobbles my planes get when I turn the S.A.S. on? Sometimes I can stop the wobble completely by looking directly at the navball and quickly tap direction buttons to sort of try to manually counter-act the direction the wobble is going, but it's not a reliable method; sometimes I can stop it by tapping W,A,S or D a few times (always with Fine controls ON [caps lock]), or sometimes I need to tap them a LOT, or hold them down slightly first... it just frustrating as hell D: and I'm not exactly amazing at the game so I know this is very very likely my fault lol, but figured someone experienced with these aerodynamics could offer me some tips and/or hints.

Thanks so much in advance to you or anyone out there willing to offer me a hand with this; I'm loving the mod but these wobbles wreck my nerves every time I wanna fly somewhere as I desperately try to get rid of the issue and I just can't D:

P.S.: These wobbles happen with the default stock S.A.S., be it from the default S.A.S. from cockpits or enhancing it with more S.A.S. modules. Not using MechJeb... although it does happen with MechJeb too, but that I can imagine what the problem is on my own.

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Hey, Ferram? I was wondering, is there any way to counter-act the intense wobbles my planes get when I turn the S.A.S. on? Sometimes I can stop the wobble completely by looking directly at the navball and quickly tap direction buttons to sort of try to manually counter-act the direction the wobble is going, but it's not a reliable method; sometimes I can stop it by tapping W,A,S or D a few times (always with Fine controls ON [caps lock]), or sometimes I need to tap them a LOT, or hold them down slightly first... it just frustrating as hell D: and I'm not exactly amazing at the game so I know this is very very likely my fault lol, but figured someone experienced with these aerodynamics could offer me some tips and/or hints.

Thanks so much in advance to you or anyone out there willing to offer me a hand with this; I'm loving the mod but these wobbles wreck my nerves every time I wanna fly somewhere as I desperately try to get rid of the issue and I just can't D:

P.S.: These wobbles happen with the default stock S.A.S., be it from the default S.A.S. from cockpits or enhancing it with more S.A.S. modules. Not using MechJeb... although it does happen with MechJeb too, but that I can imagine what the problem is on my own.

SAS code is terrible. add larger or more stabilizers and use trim (ALT + WASDQE and Alt-X to reset) to set level flight. Also consider switching to FAR, as it has better design tools and flight assistance code that isn't all over-correct-y like SAS.

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SAS code is terrible. add larger or more stabilizers and use trim (ALT + WASDQE and Alt-X to reset) to set level flight. Also consider switching to FAR, as it has better design tools and flight assistance code that isn't all over-correct-y like SAS.

It's not that SAS code is 'terrible'.

It's that stock SAS has no idea how to handle NEAR (or FAR) control surfaces. Or even that they exist as control surfaces. The only control authority it would be able to recognize with certainty is any reaction wheels and gimbaled engines. (as long as they are stock gimbal).

That's not a problem with SAS, that's a natural consequence of replacing portions of stock modules that other stock modules rely on.

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Is SAS even aware of other modules? It seems to work perfectly well with mod gimbal modules, the only reason it doesn't work with FAR / NEAR is that it overcorrects heavily on anything with a large amount of control authority.

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A very easy way to use SAS with FAR and NEAR is limit the control surfaces deflection.

That way the SAS will not overcorrect, at the expense of maneuverability.

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A very easy way to use SAS with FAR and NEAR is limit the control surfaces deflection.

That way the SAS will not overcorrect, at the expense of maneuverability.

So what you're saying is I should just get rid of some control surfaces? I could try that but not sure it would be all that great a work-around on a VTOL D: but what do I know about Aerodynamics... it might as well be the best thing ever :P I'll give it a try!

EDIT: You were absolutely right tetryds :D As soon as I brought all of my wing ailerons to 10 from 20, and the front canards to 15 from 20 suddenly the plane not only worked just fine without s.a.s., but now when s.a.s. is on the plane is perfectly stable :D even MORE stable than using smart s.a.s. from MechJeb lol. Thank you so much! Definitely something that is a tad difficult to find out without information like what I imagine FAR gives you, but it's great to know there are simple guidelines you can follow to make your planes flyable without really needing too much information, just requires you to make air planes with a bit more brains behind the design :P Very satisfied, so much happiness, wow.

VTOLs for the win o/

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Edited by MonaBabii
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You dropped the NEAR folder inside your EditorExtensions folder by accident. Pull it out and move it to GameData.

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So what you're saying is I should just get rid of some control surfaces? I could try that but not sure it would be all that great a work-around on a VTOL D: but what do I know about Aerodynamics... it might as well be the best thing ever :P I'll give it a try!

EDIT: You were absolutely right tetryds :D As soon as I brought all of my wing ailerons to 10 from 20, and the front canards to 15 from 20 suddenly the plane not only worked just fine without s.a.s., but now when s.a.s. is on the plane is perfectly stable :D even MORE stable than using smart s.a.s. from MechJeb lol. Thank you so much! Definitely something that is a tad difficult to find out without information like what I imagine FAR gives you, but it's great to know there are simple guidelines you can follow to make your planes flyable without really needing too much information, just requires you to make air planes with a bit more brains behind the design :P Very satisfied, so much happiness, wow.

VTOLs for the win o/

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http://imgur.com/a/ffA5P

Glad to help!

Yes, there is always something that can be done to fix up an aircraft.

Oftentimes that makes them super ugly, but sometimes it's just small adjusts that can change everything.

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You dropped the NEAR folder inside your EditorExtensions folder by accident. Pull it out and move it to GameData.

Oh that's why, I was confused at first because I dropped a copy of it into editor extensions.

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whats a good general rule for building regular rockets with near? whenever i start gravity turning it spins end over end, even with small payloads. is this an issue with procedural fairings?

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whats a good general rule for building regular rockets with near? whenever i start gravity turning it spins end over end, even with small payloads. is this an issue with procedural fairings?

A general rule is to use control surfaces on the bottom of the last stage that stays into atmosphere.

And make sure COA (COL) is always under COM.

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Hey having a bit of trouble... been running FAR for a with no problems but figured i would try NEAR as ive been losing stability with bigger planes at high speeds. However as soon as i install it "Procedural wings" refuse to attach to anything and the structures in B9 aerospace wont toggle... uninstalling NEAR and procedural wings doesnt fix the toggle problem and uninstalling B9 and near doesnt fix the wing problem... I have to remove KSP and the gamedata folder to get it to work (just about to try copying a vanilla gamedata folder in to save me time). I am running:- B9, NEAR, procedural wings + fairings, engineer, KAS, kerblestats, kethane, KW rocketry, mechjeb2 (NEAR addon). What confuses me is that if i re-install and then load all mods but swap NEAR for FAR it all works dandy... Help?

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Sorry if it's a repeat question, but is there a fix for mechjeb's atmospheric drag delta-V calculations? After installing NEAR mechjeb keeps grossly underestimating the deceleration and thus borking my attempts at efficient aerobraking and aerocapture or even making accurate landings on atmospheric bodies.

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Sarbian has posted some Optional MJ Modules, which does *something* for NEAR (and or FAR), but I'm not sure of the details, checking...

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/60933-Optional-MechJeb-Modules

NEAR Support

Basic support for FAR inside MJ. For now it only adds surface control info inside MJ. The control should not wobble as much.

This version is compiled for NEAR v1.3

Edited by Pondafarr

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Be careful with that optional MJ Module, my planes started to freak out (if using SAS) right from the runway. Had to uninstall that and they worked fine. Just saying.

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I feel like I must have missed something, but is there a list of known mod compatibilities or conflicts? The most likely conflicts I see with my list are Infernal Robotics KAS and TweakScale. Will custom parts generally work as expected by default or do I have to add a module or change stats? Right now I've got some custom couplers/addapters, decouplers/separators, batteries and cargo bays (with cargo bay in the title.)

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People asked for something like FAR "without that complicated, confusing GUI." Ferram delivered exactly what people asked.

So my understanding is that there is nothing to indicate that NEAR is installed/working other than the folder in the GameData folder?

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Sure there is. Do aerodynamics behave different than stock? If yes, then it is working. If no, then it isn't.

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