[0.24.2] DebRefund v1.0.13

[Incomitatum]

The math must be out of whack here. I have even visually monitored some of my cans making very nice, soft, landings with their chutes. I then switch to the main pod as it lands, and I STILL get messages that the "Debris hit HARD"; though no parts broke off and on landing they weren't going more than 6 km/s.

I was even able to go to the star-map and "Recover" the "Debris", albeit for no extra KerBucks.

[Godot]

Works well for me in the 32 Bit version ... thanks

[Godot]

The math must be out of whack here. I have even visually monitored some of my cans making very nice, soft, landings with their chutes. I then switch to the main pod as it lands, and I STILL get messages that the "Debris hit HARD"; though no parts broke off and on landing they weren't going more than 6 km/s.

I was even able to go to the star-map and "Recover" the "Debris", albeit for no extra KerBucks.

This on the other hand is something I agree with ...

I used more than enough chutes than, from my experience, necessary for a soft landing for spent stages of the kind I used and nevertheless only got to yellow.

The really interesting question IMHO is:

What weight is used by the mod for the chute calculation

the weight of the stage with full tanks ...

or the weight of the stage with tanks with the real fuel levels (which, in my case is usual the weight with empty tanks)

[slick50]

I used more than enough chutes than, from my experience, necessary for a soft landing for spent stages of the kind I used and nevertheless only got to yellow.

I have the same problem.

[Vendan]

I have the same problem.

http://i.imgur.com/gVOORtG.gif

Well, I just made a stage with exactly that, and followed it down, and it hit the ground and exploded at 10 m/s. You can adjust values in the config file, but that's not enough chute for that much weight...

[Vendan]

This on the other hand is something I agree with ...

I used more than enough chutes than, from my experience, necessary for a soft landing for spent stages of the kind I used and nevertheless only got to yellow.

The really interesting question IMHO is:

What weight is used by the mod for the chute calculation

the weight of the stage with full tanks ...

or the weight of the stage with tanks with the real fuel levels (which, in my case is usual the weight with empty tanks)

Weight is total weight of the "vessel"(the debris/stage) when it gets killed by the atmo, which means dry mass + mass of resources.

[Incomitatum]

Here's the real problem as I see it (not that I don't appreciate the effort that the author put into this).

Vessels that are called "Debris" when they break off the Main Body are visible on the map. It's up to ME to make sure they have enough chutes to ensure they don't "crater".

When I do this, oftentimes I still SEE these sitting on Kerbin somewhere. I can even choose to "recover them". I just seem to get NOTHING for doing so.

This shouldn't really have anything to do with Mass or Drag, as the physics engine will have already taken care of that. I will have a crater or I won't.

From there on, when I go to the map and hit "Recover", then this mod should call into functions already built into KSP. We already recover a normal vessel, it already lists parts and prices and fuel. It already does the calculation based on how far from the spaceport we are.

=================

After more testing it seems like if I put a probe brain on EACH separate part then it's considered it's own Vessel and not Debris_. As such it is "recoverable". So, we need a mod that lets us recover all vessels (if they are recoverable) and cash in the parts regardless of if they have a control-system (pod, probe-brain, mech-jeb).

Edited July 19, 2014 by Incomitatum

[Murmur]

Just tried the latest version and it seems to be working for me now. Thanks, I really wanted to be able to use this mod.

[Sesambrot]

Just tried the latest version and it seems to be working for me now. Thanks, I really wanted to be able to use this mod.

Same here actually, seems to work as intended now on 64bit. The only problem I keep running into now, is that when I "revert to launch", I get "[Exception]NullReferenceExceptions: Object reference not set to an instance of an object" for all the radial chutes on the vessel, which also breaks them. It can be avoided by reverting to the VAB instead and then simply launching again. Loading a save-file with a vessel at the launchpad has the same effect on it's radial chutes, which I guess isn't surprising.

[magico13]

Same here actually, seems to work as intended now on 64bit. The only problem I keep running into now, is that when I "revert to launch", I get "[Exception]NullReferenceExceptions: Object reference not set to an instance of an object" for all the radial chutes on the vessel, which also breaks them. It can be avoided by reverting to the VAB instead and then simply launching again. Loading a save-file with a vessel at the launchpad has the same effect on it's radial chutes, which I guess isn't surprising.

Is that with real chutes parachutes? I've been seeing that independent of this mod whenever reverting to launch with real chutes installed.

[Sesambrot]

Well, the vessel used only stock parachutes, but I was wondering if RealChutes may be causing it considering it does mess with the stock-chutes as well. Then again I've never had that issue before, so I figured I'd mention it, might very well be RealChutes though I guess...

[bobprime]

Just fixed it, download v1.0.9

Rock on. That is a fast turnaround. I just tested it with my test vehicle and it works great. Thanks!

[Thorbane]

Does this mod allow for recovery of landed debris?

[Addle]

A version number in the archive filename would be super useful.

[Vendan]

Does this mod allow for recovery of landed debris?

Nope, just debris that would normally be destroyed in the atmosphere

A version number in the archive filename would be super useful.

If you download it from the main download site, it's there. It's also in the dll if you view it's properties.

[Addle]

If you download it from the main download site, it's there. It's also in the dll if you view it's properties.

Ah, ok, that'll work, thanks.

[Kerba Fett]

I've tried every version of this plugin that you've released. None of them seem to be working for me.

In the example below, when I hit the spacebar to stage it should I get a message about recovered parts?

I get no message and lose the value of the decoupler, structural fuselage, and parachute when recovering the craft.

Do I need a probe core mounted on the parts I decouple to make it work?

[Godot]

One question:

To calculate the 100% value of your recovered debris, what do you use?

A function of KSP which gives you the parts and their value ... or a function that you programmed for yourself?

The reason I ask is the following:

Currently there is a bug in KSPs debris recovery that gives you too much worth for debris that is recovered without yielding an End Flight-Screen.

See here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/86638-Recovered-landed-debris-bringing-more-money-than-it-is-worth

And now I found the following passage in one of the recovery mails of your mod, that may point to the bug:

2 FL-T800 Fuel Tanks @ 1600 = 3200

The price given in your message is the price for a full fuel tank and not for an empty one ... as the price of the resources (i.e. fuel and oxidizer) is added separately once again, this, of course, gives you too much worth for your debris (i.e. you get money for a full load of fuel + money for every fuel that is left in the tank for every fuel tank)

So, if the parts and their values in the message are taken from a KSP function, this explains everything (i.e. the bug that KSP makes)

If it isn´t the case ... well, then I found a bug in yoru mod (which may be the same bug as the bug that KSP recovery itelf makes ... just both were programmed independently)

[Vendan]

I've tried every version of this plugin that you've released. None of them seem to be working for me.

In the example below, when I hit the spacebar to stage it should I get a message about recovered parts?

I get no message and lose the value of the decoupler, structural fuselage, and parachute when recovering the craft.

Do I need a probe core mounted on the parts I decouple to make it work?

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/579028334171983887/60FCC738D98B053FAF06C0F845E2016CC90675EE/

That's not what this mod does, the debris needs to be destroyed by the game engine because it was on rails(i.e. further then 2.5km from the active vessel) while in the atmosphere. It does nothing to debris within that distance, and it does nothing to landed debris in any case. In addition, all that stuff will be recovered and credited the next time the pad is cleared.

One question:

To calculate the 100% value of your recovered debris, what do you use?

A function of KSP which gives you the parts and their value ... or a function that you programmed for yourself?

The reason I ask is the following:

Currently there is a bug in KSPs debris recovery that gives you too much worth for debris that is recovered without yielding an End Flight-Screen.

See here: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/86638-Recovered-landed-debris-bringing-more-money-than-it-is-worth

And now I found the following passage in one of the recovery mails of your mod, that may point to the bug:

2 FL-T800 Fuel Tanks @ 1600 = 3200

The price given in your message is the price for a full fuel tank and not for an empty one ... as the price of the resources (i.e. fuel and oxidizer) is added separately once again, this, of course, gives you too much worth for your debris (i.e. you get money for a full load of fuel + money for every fuel that is left in the tank for every fuel tank)

So, if the parts and their values in the message are taken from a KSP function, this explains everything (i.e. the bug that KSP makes)

If it isn´t the case ... well, then I found a bug in yoru mod (which may be the same bug as the bug that KSP recovery itelf makes ... just both were programmed independently)

You're using an old version or looking at the screenshots, which are themselves old. The mod returns 1232.8 for a FL-T800 Fuel Tank, i.e. it's dry value.

[Godot]

...

You're using an old version or looking at the screenshots, which are themselves old. The mod returns 1232.8 for a FL-T800 Fuel Tank, i.e. it's dry value.

The latter may be ... I use Version 1.0.5 ... time to switch to 1.0.9 then

your words also indicate that your former bug and the bug that KSP recovery still has were/are independant from each other,

as the recovery bug in KSP still isn´t fixed ... with other words, your calculation in 1.0.9 at the moment is more correct than the one that KSP uses

Edited July 20, 2014 by Godot
Correction ... it was 1.0.5, not 1.0.8

[TheGoldElite]

That's not what this mod does, the debris needs to be destroyed by the game engine because it was on rails(i.e. further then 2.5km from the active vessel) while in the atmosphere. It does nothing to debris within that distance, and it does nothing to landed debris in any case. In addition, all that stuff will be recovered and credited the next time the pad is cleared.

You're using an old version or looking at the screenshots, which are themselves old. The mod returns 1232.8 for a FL-T800 Fuel Tank, i.e. it's dry value.

Yeah I had bugs with the 1.05 version, this is the only mod I run now; previously it did require excessive amounts of chutes for things, and also It seemed to bug out my game alot when reverting launches or just going through the buildings at the space station, it would freeze and lock up, buttons wouldnt work etc; but only when the mod was installed. I'll let you know if I get any problems with this version

EDIT

The crashes seem to be all fixed, which is great thanks. but I can confirm that a Jumbo 64 Fuel tank with a mainsail lands with Yellow damage using 12 chutes, is green with 16

Edited July 20, 2014 by TheGoldElite

[acc]

Yeah I had bugs with the 1.05 version, this is the only mod I run now; previously it did require excessive amounts of chutes for things, and also It seemed to bug out my game alot when reverting launches or just going through the buildings at the space station, it would freeze and lock up, buttons wouldnt work etc; but only when the mod was installed. I'll let you know if I get any problems with this version

Yeah, had the same issue yesterday. Here's my output log: http://www.file-upload.net/download-9244162/output_log.txt.html

[whaaw]

i want to say thx for your effort you put in this

but its just annoying that i have to put a quadrilion chutes on a single fuel tank to survive. it shoud be 1 chute thats it.

thx

Edited July 20, 2014 by whaaw

[smunisto]

i want to say thx for your effort you put in this

but its just anyoing that i have tu put a quadrilion chutes on a single fuel tank to survive. it shoud be 1 chute thats it.

thx

Nope. For everything you do with chutes - you need to put enough of them to correspond to the part mass. The author of the mod is using a formula, to calculate the mass of the part versus the parachutes. If you have a sensible suggestion for rebalancing this ratio - then bring it forward. 1 chute for an empty orange tank + engine is not enough and will never be a reasonable option.

Try putting 1 MK16 on your 2m ship and let it land. I guarantee you will not get any funds back

[whaaw]

Nope. For everything you do with chutes - you need to put enough of them to correspond to the part mass. The author of the mod is using a formula, to calculate the mass of the part versus the parachutes. If you have a sensible suggestion for rebalancing this ratio - then bring it forward. 1 chute for an empty orange tank + engine is not enough and will never be a reasonable option.

Try putting 1 MK16 on your 2m ship and let it land. I guarantee you will not get any funds back

Yes but my stages are clustered with chutes. My ~50t lunchstage costs 60k funds and it needs another 14k funds of Chutes and the hole rocket just looks ugly with that amount of chutes

lets make it mass dependent but with a maximum of 3 chutes per stage. When i put 3 chutes on it i will be 100% sure that the stage gona survive.