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[24.2] Karbonite Ongoing Dev and Discussion


RoverDude
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Which logo style by Alexustas (on page 2) do you like best?  

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  1. 1. Which logo style by Alexustas (on page 2) do you like best?

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Working on some initial models!

On the left is a ventral drill piece. It could probably use some more detail around the inner ring to spruce it up, but I'm very happy about how it turned out. it folds up pretty nicely and could probably be wrangled to extend further down if needed.

On the right is a really basic 2.5m tank, I didn't want to go for anything really fancy or detailed like the NF tanks, so it has a very flat profile. The vents provide a little bit of visual detail.

What I'm wondering is what highlight colour to use? Kethane has a strong green/white vibe, and a lot of other stock fuel systems have particular colours. What should we use for Karbonite? I did some tests with a number of different colours and wasn't satisfied with them.

Nice.

"Karbonite" makes me think black or a dark gray.

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Since KSPI,EL and KESA together provide all necessary for colonization, shipbuilding, fuel harvesting, etc, what is the purpose of Karbonite?

Also, will Karbonite be placed on every body like Kethane? I'd like to see Karbonite be a little more realistic.

Tigerclaw, let's not talk about the constraints of the game engine. They haven't been an issue, given that RSS, Real Fuels, Kethane, KSPI, etc have all proved possible.It's not a factor. I like your LARS concept, and I'm not suggesting micromanagement. A set it up and let it run approach is fine with me, with occasional maintenance being required at least at first(like in MKS as is now). What I was objecting to is having every resource needed for refueling on every celestial body, with no searching, set up or thinking being required. I don't want to just be able to easily turn the Mun into a refueling depot with any set-up or maintenance.

No, you misunderstand. What you run into with engine constraints is part count and how much you can have at an active 'base' at any given time before you take performance hits. Recall that every part included in an active scene has physics being applied to it on every pass. The more you have, the harder it works. And most places you're going to get a ship to for your base set up are going to have you starting with multi-hundred part vessels and going up from there. I run a moderate level Flight Simulator gaming system on a core i5 3570 clocked up as high as I dare with stock cooling. (Which happens to be approx... 3570 MHz before it starts to dramatically heat up. Normal speed is 3300 MHz) The physics engine seriously gut punches it for any part-heavy vessel, and then things only get worse when the game universe starts to get busy with background vessels, satellites, etc. And even if performance issues are tolerable, the game also seems to glitch a lot more when the physics engine gets overloaded. So there are some very real constraints you have to keep in mind in order to keep excessive part counts down.

MKS consolidates that into as few parts as possible because of that, which is good.

And what exactly isn't realistic about the mun having all the resources you need on it? Every body in the solar system IRL has all the known materials in existence on it. The location and concentration of said materials varies, but it's all there. What should be considered more is what advantages and disadvantages you get from extracting from different bodies. And you can do that by tweaking material generation to favor different patterns on different bodies.

Examples for Karbonite as it's assumed to be some kind of liquid/gas.

- Mun? In the undisturbed regions outside the large craters.

- Minmus? In the high areas around the flat planes.

- Kerbin? The highlands.

- Eve? Aren't those oceans liquid rocket fuel? =p

But you get the idea. Locations for mining sites can mix it up for you with something as simple as forcing you to make your approaches into polar orbits because the best spots are at high latitudes. And you can further mix things up by going through the other mods and tweaking concentrations so that while you CAN get everything from say, The Mun, Minmus is much more rich in Karbonite than in ores or other materials. (For whatever reason you can dream.) They don't have to be separate and isolated from one body to another.

Either way, the realism you're asking for actually isn't as 'realistic' as you think it is. It's just 'harder' for the sake of hard. But it looks like the idea is for edit-ability anyway. Which will allow you to get what you want in 'all of X at body Y while Z is on body A.'

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Why not do some color theory study and choose that way?

What 'emotion' does one want to invoke the moment they see either the Karbonite Logo, or the part color scheme involving Karbonite? Do we want to invoke energy? Perhaps a sense of danger because the substance IS used for rocket fuel?

Or do you want people to feel everything is 'alright' because you know you have fuel?

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Working on some initial models!

On the left is a ventral drill piece. It could probably use some more detail around the inner ring to spruce it up, but I'm very happy about how it turned out. it folds up pretty nicely and could probably be wrangled to extend further down if needed.

On the right is a really basic 2.5m tank, I didn't want to go for anything really fancy or detailed like the NF tanks, so it has a very flat profile. The vents provide a little bit of visual detail.

What I'm wondering is what highlight colour to use? Kethane has a strong green/white vibe, and a lot of other stock fuel systems have particular colours. What should we use for Karbonite? I did some tests with a number of different colours and wasn't satisfied with them.

Looks great Nertea!

I got in mind a few low profile Karbonite fueled rocket engines in mind. gives me a chance to play with SmokeScreen particles. I'll wait for your parts to develope a bit more and follow the style in mine.

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an excellent rebuttal to my point

You make a good about setting the realism/difficulty by concentration, that could make sense. I don't quite agree with it being a universal fuel, though if a logical/realistic explanation is used, and a conversion process, that is cool as well.

With regard to part count/performance, using mods like procedural parts drastically reduces the necessary part counts. I also use my PC for flight simming as well as KSP, though I have an i7(SB) at 4.5

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Oh yes I'm digging the black and orange it goes well with BahamutoD's EL drills too.

On the subject of the ventral drill my only concern is being able to mount it in a stack otherwise launching it will be tricky(read launch upside down) or worse you need to have two of them as counter weights to each other which defeats the point of a ventral drill(of course this is nothing a stock engine fairing can't fix)

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5, no question about it.

Same opinion, last line !

Black plus another colour (orange seems to be a good choice)

For the carbon idea, as i was explaining, the Karbonite could be some clathrate hydrates, which would explain why we find the Karbonite under solid, liquid and gaseous forms.

Edited by ndiver
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Since KSPI,EL and KESA together provide all necessary for colonization, shipbuilding, fuel harvesting, etc, what is the purpose of Karbonite?

Also, will Karbonite be placed on every body like Kethane? I'd like to see Karbonite be a little more realistic.

Tigerclaw, let's not talk about the constraints of the game engine. They haven't been an issue, given that RSS, Real Fuels, Kethane, KSPI, etc have all proved possible.It's not a factor. I like your LARS concept, and I'm not suggesting micromanagement. A set it up and let it run approach is fine with me, with occasional maintenance being required at least at first(like in MKS as is now). What I was objecting to is having every resource needed for refueling on every celestial body, with no searching, set up or thinking being required. I don't want to just be able to easily turn the Mun into a refueling depot with any set-up or maintenance.

Present but in different forms... Eve oceans, Jovian air come to mind. Solids elsewhere. Concentrations will vary from very rare through fairly common. And these are of course always customizable, extensable, etc.

Can you map the biomes for resource generation(specific biomes = specific resources)? Maybe implement the custom biomes mod.

They use a grayscale PNG which can correspond to whatever you'd like :)

Told you, orange and black look pimp ! :)

Dear god yes.

5, no question about it.
5 looks pretty and its black hence "feels" like carbon :P

Orange and black, row five it is. Sold. More rep incoming once I can spread it around some more ;)

Same opinion, last line !

Black plus another colour (orange seems to be a good choice)

For the carbon idea, as i was explaining, the Karbonite could be some clathrate hydrates, which would explain why we find the Karbonite under solid, liquid and gaseous forms.

I like this!

Here is a vector (svg) document with all variants of "Karbonite" logos

Thank you sir!

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