Devnote Tuesdays: The Administrative Edition

[blizzy78]

It needs to be made clear (in legalese terms) that this particular product is not created by Squad and that they hold no responsibilities for anything contained in it.

Much the same, it needs to be made clear in the rules (in legalese terms) what qualifies as said "products." I've said it quite a few times, and I'm saying it again: You can't have vague and unspecific rules.

[KerbMav]

becomes interesting in the eyes of scammers and con artists to try and construct a contrived reason for suing Squad for damages. It's something any larger company is forced to do to cover their rears, unfortunately.

Seems to be more like a general flaw in the underlying system - once more ...

[Red Iron Crown]

You may think that that is superfluous, and it largely is, but Squad isn't doing this because they think there's a real danger of confusion here. No, they're doing this because KSP has grown to the point where it generates so much revenue that it becomes interesting in the eyes of scammers and con artists to try and construct a contrived reason for suing Squad for damages. It's something any larger company is forced to do to cover their rears, unfortunately.

In some jurisdictions one of the important considerations in deciding copyright cases is whether the copyright holder has a track record of taking reasonable measures to protect their copyrighted IP. Squad might just be establishing a history of asserting their IP rights to head off the objection that they hadn't asserted their rights before, so why would they when they sue [insert infringing scammer here] for infringement?

[Streetwind]

Much the same, it needs to be made clear in the rules (in legalese terms) what qualifies as said "products." I've said it quite a few times, and I'm saying it again: You can't have vague and unspecific rules.

It seems they are working on that, at least, judging from Bob's "until we finalize an official stance/program on this".

Seems to be more like a general flaw in the underlying system - once more ...

Not so much a "system", and more human nature. People have been trying to steal the fruit of someone else's work since the dawn of time. And they always will.

[lazarus1024]

For some unresonable reason I have this hope of a 2 person kerbal space capsule (and not the big landing can). Maybe a 1.5m part and not a 2.5m part? Dunno, I want a Gemini capsule

[Laie]

3. We’re getting a lot of questions about the rules around mods. We’re working on a solution that is first and foremost about protecting the rights of our players.

Thanks.

Just ten minutes ago I became first aware of ModStatistics and how I already have several copies running. "Opting out is easy", they say -- well it isn't if you don't even know it's there. I want to be able and trust my mods -- putting it bluntly, I'm downloading and running software from good knows where and have no means of telling whether it (only) does what it says on the box. For all I know, I could be participating in a dozen botnets, doing DDoS attacks and advertising ..... enlargements. Seen that way, ModStatistics is rather benign -- but until just now, there was no reason for me to even think such thoughts.

Good to see that Squad is already aware of the issue and, more importantly, considers this to be an issue. Please stop this before it gets out of hand.

[KerbMav]

Not so much a "system", and more human nature. People have been trying to steal the fruit of someone else's work since the dawn of time. And they always will.

If it is possible for a ***** ***** to sue a company for damages because a fan did not place a disclaimer anywhere, than for me it is a flaw in the system.

At least that is how you put it in your post I quoted in my last post?

And secondly, if you cannot protect your property - physical or intellectual - when someone tries to profit from your work, because you did not take measures against it, then non-DRM products are in danger all the time?

[Red Iron Crown]

And secondly, if you cannot protect your property - physical or intellectual - when someone tries to profit from your work, because you did not take measures against it, then non-DRM products are in danger all the time?

Not exactly. It's not about preventative measures per se, or that you must use all available measures. It's about whether you historically allow your IP to be infringed without regard or attempt to protect it at all. If Squad were to allow people to use "Kerbal" without limitation, they're at risk of losing control of the word by not asserting their rights. The word might become common usage for "cartoonish green spaceman", sort of like Kleenex for tissue or Xerox for photocopies. Some jerk could then make "Kerbal Cosmos Administration" and claim that it's fair usage as Squad never tried to prevent the word from being used by others.

It's a bit of a silly situation, but then most IP law stuff is. It's a shame though, as I think most youtubers and other content creators aren't trying to infringe at all and they greatly help promote the game. I hope very few are discouraged by having to put in a disclaimer.

[blizzy78]

putting it bluntly, I'm downloading and running software from good knows where and have no means of telling whether it (only) does what it says on the box.

In the case of ModStatistics, it is obvious you did not read what's on the box.

[LethalDose]

<p><strong>Felipe (HarvesteR)</strong><span><strong>:</strong> Today we’ve started writing up the specifics of how the Administration Facility will function. This is a new building we want to add at KSC, but more on that later.</span></p>

.... Later!? so, what 3-6 months until we get some vague description of what it does? You have enough of an idea of what it does to give it a name, but that's all you tell us... How do you not get that this kind of communication is the cause of the speculation the devs and the mods complain about... Just. /facepalm

[Laie]

In the case of ModStatistics, it is obvious you did not read what's on the box.

Only that I never chose to install it. When Adobe is pushing the Ask Toolbar together with every Flashplayer upgrade, they provide an uncheckbox. KSP modders apparently can't be trusted to show at least that much decency.

I've read up on the subject by now and don't have anything new to say about the matter. But... I only became aware of it an hour ago, my anger ist still fresh. Please don't tease me.

[Whirligig Girl]

For some unresonable reason I have this hope of a 2 person kerbal space capsule (and not the big landing can). Maybe a 1.5m part and not a 2.5m part? Dunno, I want a Gemini capsule

1.875 meters are reqiured for a Gemini capsule. try HGR, because KSP's not getting stock 1.875 meter parts for a while. HGR is stockalike and very nice, and if you prefer realism, try FASA.

[Whirligig Girl]

The hype train has no brakes.

Oh really? So now all of a sudden you're the driver of the HypeTrain? Shutup. I drive the hypetrain, and why in Kraken's name would a train not have brakes?

Back in the journey to the HypeTrainStation of Asteroidal Redirection (AKA 0.23.5/ARM) Rowsdower gave me an order to put on the brakes and slow down a bit.

Recently, even though the HypeBoiler was leaking, the tracks ahead were broken, and we were almost out of HypeCoal, ShimmyTheJJ demanded we power on through the problems and reach the HypeTrainStation of Maximum Hype (AKA 0.24) on time! Not that I knew when "on time" was, as I had thrown my navcomputer out the window and my only guide were the SteamDB tracksigns and speed limit tracksigns, the latter of which I ignored.

We pushed on, always generating enough Hype to turn into DannyJuice which can be used as an impromptu fuel source. Then we FINALLY reached the HypeTrainStation of MaximumHype!

For now I'm doing shunting work in the trainyard, helping trains to get started, and just waiting for enough HypePressure to build up in the boiler to pick up the passengers. Of course, this won't happen for at least a month.

[KerbMav]

.

May I offer you a hot beverage?

Later usually refers to a dedicated post a few days later in this context.

[Red Iron Crown]

They may not have fully hashed out exactly what functions the new building will contain for that matter. It sounds like they're still setting their goals for 0.25 to me.

[blizzy78]

.... Later!? so, what 3-6 months until we get some vague description of what it does? You have enough of an idea of what it does to give it a name, but that's all you tell us... How do you not get that this kind of communication is the cause of the speculation the devs and the mods complain about... Just. /facepalm

What part of "Today we’ve started writing up the specifics of how the Administration Facility will function." did you not understand?

[calisker]

Moeggz,

We're still sorting all of this out but the idea is that user-generated content that is for fun (not profit) would be supported and encouraged. What's happening now is we're getting more requests to create content that leverages our intellectual property for profit. We need to defend our rights in situations like this while also making sure we're really supporting the people who are doing great stuff that is beneficial to the community. I hope this helps you out.

[The Jedi Master]

'Use of the phrase kerbal'? Not sure what to think, can you clarify?

Also, LethalDose, chill. They'll probably tell us in a few days, if not today. It's cool.

[Streetwind]

If it is possible for a ***** ***** to sue a company for damages because a fan did not place a disclaimer anywhere, than for me it is a flaw in the system.

At least that is how you put it in your post I quoted in my last post?

And secondly, if you cannot protect your property - physical or intellectual - when someone tries to profit from your work, because you did not take measures against it, then non-DRM products are in danger all the time?

Not exactly. I named the youtube video creator as an example of someone who would be affected by the "rule" to not use the term Kerbal undisclaimed. The statement that such rules serve foremost to protect the IP holder from random legal attacks was unrelated to the example. If I was a legal troll trying to contrive a reason to sue someone, I'd probably fabricate that reason myself via a strawman and not rely on the internet to supply it (though I might look for stuff tangentially supporting my attack to make it look more credible).

As for the second part - yes, any product released without DRM can and will be pirated. Any IP out in the public without legal protection can and will be misused and/or attacked*. This is the reason we have DRM and companies have aggressive legal teams in the first place. Of course, a company can still decide not to protect their IP or not to use DRM for their product if they figure the damages prevented by such a thing would not justify the effort, or maybe just for ideological reasons. For example, video game maker CD Project Red releases its critically acclaimed "The Witcher" titles without DRM. You can find pirated copies all over the internet, but they are apparently happy with the revenue they're making - especially since their non-DRM policy gets them extra sales from people willing to put down money just to support that.

* Of course, things with DRM still get pirated and IPs with protection still get abused... there'll always be some who think they can get away with it, and a subset of them actually do.

[Pecan]

... Legal Stuff ...

Do Squad currently have a preferred form of words for the disclaimer and Squad's own copyright/trademark attribution and protection?

If not would you be content with "The author is not affiliated with Kerbal Space Program or Squad", "Squad asserts their right to be identified as the authors of Kerbal Space Program’ and "The Squad logo is a trademark of Squad" - until notified otherwise?

The "Kerbal Text Program" Interactive Fiction I'm working on is a) now renamed "Text Space Programme", for free public distribution, without even solicitations for donations, c) will include such text as above or advised, d) will be a lot neater if it can quote (some of) the parts and planets description text from the VAB/SPH and map mode, e) on hold anyway until I get my tutorial text properly updated for 0.24.2.

As far as I am aware my tutorial does not use any copyrighted material.

[sarbian]

Modders need to respect the rights of KSPplayers, make sure they’re being honest with what they’re offering in their mod and we expect them to always think of the players first.

How can you be any less specific about that ? When was there any one not being honest about what was going on ? Sure there was an issue on opt-in/opt-out but bringing honesty and "think of the players first" ? you don't seems to understand why I(we) write mods and fell nearly insulted when I read that.

[regex]

.... Later!? so, what 3-6 months until we get some vague description of what it does? You have enough of an idea of what it does to give it a name, but that's all you tell us... How do you not get that this kind of communication is the cause of the speculation the devs and the mods complain about... Just. /facepalm

Couldn't agree more with this. Feels like the development direction for KSP is determined by stumbling around in a dark room hoping to find an exit.

[The Jedi Master]

All right, before this goes any further, can I just say I am really scared about the future of Squad? It isn't because I don't like the direction KSP is going--in fact, I very much like where they're taking things, and I can even understand the decisions that led to the few things that do disappoint me. No, what I'm afraid of is the vocal group that takes every little thing Squad says, takes it out of context, exaggerates it to an extreme or otherwise misunderstands it and then claims that KSP is RUINED FOREVER. I'm afraid Squad will get discouraged by this group and make things worse by trying to please them.

Remember the DLC thing? One of the best people on the team left because of that. But hey, at least you got what you wanted! I don't want that to happen again. Thing is, we're getting into that same situation right now. History repeats itself.

Everyone in the group I'm criticizing, please realize that Squad is not EA. The KSP team is one of the most transparent companies in the industry, and certainly the one I've been happiest to do business with. If this is how you react to what they say, I recommend you don't buy anything from Activision or EA. It'll be a lot worse, trust me.

[Rowsdower]

Please keep in mind that the key word in HarvesteR's comments is "started." Development on 0.25 is still being plotted out so there's simply not much more detail that can be provided at this time. I wouldn't expect a meal to hit the table before the ingredients have been prepared. There will be more to say on the administrative building when more is actually ready to be said.

[calisker]

No need to feel insulted Sarabian - we know most, if not all our modders, have the community's best interests at heart, but it's important that we clarify our rules and expectations. I am blown away by the modding community - it's something really awesome to see and we're actually working on something to illustrate how proud we are of what our modders have been able to accomplish.