[b]Do you use the [u]Desaturated Texture Pack?[/u][/b]  

270 members have voted

  1. 1. [b]Do you use the [u]Desaturated Texture Pack?[/u][/b]

    • Yes, the grey textures are more stock-like
      134
    • No, the green-orange textures are fine
      39


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3 minutes ago, allista said:

Yep, hangars do conserve mass, cost and, when retrieved, science.

I mean, they add the mass and cost, thus conserving the total amount in the kerbiverse :confused:

Excellent, just as it should be :)

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1 hour ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

Excellent, just as it should be :)

I was thinking; if you can't have more than one launch position, why bother with several hangars? Just use one. The physical entrances will work as such anyway, the triggers you may place wherever you want. So visually any entrance will be picking a ship, any launched ship will appear somewhere at the center of the total space, but all this will be done by a single hangar with a single hangar space.

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I'm having troubles interacting with the Hangers in both editor and in-flight/landed. I don't have the toolbar icon that you reference in the wiki, and right clicking only gives me the stock tweakables, nothing special for hangers. 

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30 minutes ago, LordKael said:

I'm having troubles interacting with the Hangers in both editor and in-flight/landed. I don't have the toolbar icon that you reference in the wiki, and right clicking only gives me the stock tweakables, nothing special for hangers. 

If you're using Blizzy's Toolbar, you may need to enable Hangar's button in Toolbar settings; separately for Editor and for Flight scenes.

In Editor a hangar adds most controls into the part menu, so if there's none, something is definitely wrong (and if so, I need to see the log).

In Flight all controls are in the GUI window.

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26 minutes ago, allista said:

If you're using Blizzy's Toolbar, you may need to enable Hangar's button in Toolbar settings; separately for Editor and for Flight scenes.

In Editor a hangar adds most controls into the part menu, so if there's none, something is definitely wrong (and if so, I need to see the log).

In Flight all controls are in the GUI window.

I'm using the stock toolbar, I dont see any controls in the part menu, other than the regular probe control type things, and I have no GUI window in flight. What logs do you need?

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4 minutes ago, LordKael said:

I'm using the stock toolbar, I dont see any controls in the part menu, other than the regular probe control type things, and I have no GUI window in flight. What logs do you need?

It looks like the Hangar.dll is not loaded for some reason...

Logs:

Windows: {KSP DIR}\KSP_Data\output_log.txt -> zip it -> upload to Dropbox | GoogleDrive | etc. -> share the link.

Linux: ~/.config/unity3d/Squad/Kerbal\ Space\ Program/Player.log

Mac: Files>~/Library/Logs>Unity>Player.log

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hey, Success , a staggeringly large hangar , yep, one big one why not,  15 aircraft mostly f15 A 10 sized as it's an easy fit,  but space wise based on the tiny bit of space I've used for those 15, I reckon i could fit the entirety of the craft I've built in there and still have plenty of room. The real proving comes at launch when i find with all that weight so high up that she just rolls, i don't foresee it , but its a real possibility. I'll keep you posted on developments.

As note to those who follow this path, the easy way, there is one already :). extract one large hangar from the mod,  scrap everything aside from a trigger the hangar space and launch transform. (launch transform should be also smack dead center of the hangar space or you get unsuitable craft warnings) . save that and export it to unity, create a unity prefab from it and there sorted you have a pre built ready to scale and drop in anywhere hangar, just done the third hull section this way and they all load and unload fine so there doesn't appear to be any issues with local scales etc. Which for me is really nice as most of the things i do have very rigid set ups and a scale here or there can really mess with the plan.   So yeah you got a hangar, if you've a basic knowledge of unity and blender or another it's not difficult at all to do..

One last thing for today, a request for when you have time, a resizable gui window, that can show a few more stored vessels before needing a scrolling. Cheers and nice work,  really love the mass and volume checks (especially as they  sort of tally with my previous workings)

Cheers

VFavqfs.png

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17 hours ago, allista said:

Mac: Files>~/Library/Logs>Unity>Player.log

I don't see how to get this, as I've never had a need to pull my logs. Could you/somebody maybe give a quick how to for it? much thanks. 

 

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Hi testing went very well all performed as or better than expected. In the end the 20 Aircraft i stored and launched , made no noticeable difference to CV performance or stability. 

The only issue arises with the activation rules, and I'm going have to think up some way aside from using Airpark ( I'll happily use it,   but need a way for the public at large ) , to get to a stable state once stopped, several thousand tons takes a long time to settle with the new water physics.For those who don't know,  you can't activate and launch from the hangar unless the carrying vessel is virtually motionless,  not a problem for most things but a bit of an issue for marine vessels.   SO all round very happy and will likely convert anything with a bay to run hangar spaces, it's just too useful not to.

Cheers

Oh just one more thing, make sure if you intend to load a lot of ships that you have crew for them all, otherwise you'll be launching crewless uncontrollable ships, which if it has wheels ends up rolling around in the bay, can be very messy

Edited by SpannerMonkey(smce)

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2 hours ago, LordKael said:

I don't see how to get this, as I've never had a need to pull my logs. Could you/somebody maybe give a quick how to for it? much thanks. 

Look here: https://github.com/taraniselsu/TacLifeSupport/wiki/Help

1 hour ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

The only issue arises with the activation rules, and I'm going have to think up some way aside from using Airpark ( I'll happily use it,   but need a way for the public at large ) , to get to a stable state once stopped, several thousand tons takes a long time to settle with the new water physics.For those who don't know,  you can't activate and launch from the hangar unless the carrying vessel is virtually motionless,  not a problem for most things but a bit of an issue for marine vessels.   SO all round very happy and will likely convert anything with a bay to run hangar spaces, it's just too useful not to.

I see. We'll have to figure something out with this. Maybe add an option into module's configuration... These restrictions were added for safety reasons. I need to retest them as to see if they're still really needed.

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2 hours ago, allista said:
4 hours ago, LordKael said:

I don't see how to get this, as I've never had a need to pull my logs. Could you/somebody maybe give a quick how to for it? much thanks. 

Look here: https://github.com/taraniselsu/TacLifeSupport/wiki/Help

Here is the bottom chunk of the logs: http://hastebin.com/ivobuhuxil.sql

 

It wouldn't let me post the entirety of the log, as it was too big, so I read through them until it started reporting errors

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6 minutes ago, LordKael said:

Here is the bottom chunk of the logs: http://hastebin.com/ivobuhuxil.sql

It wouldn't let me post the entirety of the log, as it was too big, so I read through them until it started reporting errors

It's better to use some file-sharing like Dropbox. And to zip the whole thing.

Anyway, as I see, you're trying to use an old version of the Hangar -- 2.3.2. This was a beta version for KSP-1.0; so if you're playing 1.1.3 or 1.2 it won't work.

Please, if you're on KSP-1.2, download the latest version (3.0) form the SpaceDock: http://spacedock.info/mod/1000/Hangar

If not, go back a couple of pages to get the last Hangar-beta for KSP-1.1.3.

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4 minutes ago, allista said:

It's better to use some file-sharing like Dropbox. And to zip the whole thing.

Anyway, as I see, you're trying to use an old version of the Hangar -- 2.3.2. This was a beta version for KSP-1.0; so if you're playing 1.1.3 or 1.2 it won't work.

Please, if you're on KSP-1.2, download the latest version (3.0) form the SpaceDock: http://spacedock.info/mod/1000/Hangar

If not, go back a couple of pages to get the last Hangar-beta for KSP-1.1.3.

That is an embarrassing mistake... but that you for clearing it up! I love your mods, and am really excited to be able to use this one!

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Seems like this is broken by Contract Configurator which exposes a bug in the toolbar code.

Fix looks easy:

 

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@allista

Hi, looking for some clarification  re the direction and launch pos markers, the little blurb in the info box says that additional arrows will show in a hangar with strict launch positioning, trouble is it's unclear as to  which is which?  as all my hangars have dual arrows appearing.   Related to that, what is non strict positioning if position can only be set by the launch position transform?

Having a real mare with some of the conversions ,  mainly due to not being able to establish what will and will not fit, especially when from the numbers in unity and 3ds the object should easily fit within the defined hangar space, we've eliminated gotcha's like scaled parts and procedural parts sometimes not being exactly how they appear to the user, with odd collision etc, and yet the objects still refuse to fit.    Some of the issues  we've been able to wriggle around by placing alternate launch transforms and having them configurable via a cfg edit, not ideal and very time consuming also not at all end user friendly  and really hampers the versatility massively. 

For clarity the issues and suggestions

Launch position and alignment indicators , which is which? , Suggestion make the direction indicator  a different color or format from the launch pos indicator.

What is non strict positioning, and how is it set up ?

Is it possible to have, like the launch pos markers,  a visible guide to actually how big the hangar is .

How is the craft to be stored centered on the launch pos marker?  I'm reckoning the center line, but it could just as easily be Com or an arbitrary point

Finally and most importantly for us ship (marine type) users could a way be found to have a selection of launch positions?  available via gui perhaps, that pos once set would be set for all time, so as to avoid oddness with craft placements , as mentioned above I'm already doing this via cfg edits and preplaced  transforms, but it's less than user friendly ( 173 )

Yup that's it for now, for those parts we don't have problems with it's a fantastic addition cheers.... I had a feeling there was something else.  the hangar triggers, they are checked as trigger in unity, as per instructions, but seem inactive, switching them to part trigger layer did not help either, entry triggers remain inactive, any ideas?

Cheers

 

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@allista I've tried recompiling hangar with the fixed toolabr code but I splendidly failed; I did for others mods without trouble but keeps complaining about MultiGeometryAnimator StartState  and many more not existing; I'm probably not having some kind of dependency but heh :/ :)

Sorry I can't help more

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Hangar v3.0.1 for KSP 1.2 (2016.10.26)

ChangeLog:

Spoiler
  • Yet another fix for vessel positioning on launch.
  • The game is now autosaved before a vessel is spawned from a hangar.
  • Spaceport and Big Ground Hangar may be used as standalone control centers (KerbNet integration).
  • Adapted to changes in Configurable Containers.
  • Moved ToolbarWrapper to AT_Utils. Updated it.
Edited by allista

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3 hours ago, Ursu Mare said:

Hi, the "Imgur Album" link in the first post does not work. Cheers!

Thanks! I'll check it.

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On 10/25/2016 at 10:29 PM, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

@allista

Hi, looking for some clarification  re the direction and launch pos markers, the little blurb in the info box says that additional arrows will show in a hangar with strict launch positioning, trouble is it's unclear as to  which is which?  as all my hangars have dual arrows appearing.   Related to that, what is non strict positioning if position can only be set by the launch position transform?

Having a real mare with some of the conversions ,  mainly due to not being able to establish what will and will not fit, especially when from the numbers in unity and 3ds the object should easily fit within the defined hangar space, we've eliminated gotcha's like scaled parts and procedural parts sometimes not being exactly how they appear to the user, with odd collision etc, and yet the objects still refuse to fit.    Some of the issues  we've been able to wriggle around by placing alternate launch transforms and having them configurable via a cfg edit, not ideal and very time consuming also not at all end user friendly  and really hampers the versatility massively. 

For clarity the issues and suggestions

Launch position and alignment indicators , which is which? , Suggestion make the direction indicator  a different color or format from the launch pos indicator.

What is non strict positioning, and how is it set up ?

Is it possible to have, like the launch pos markers,  a visible guide to actually how big the hangar is .

How is the craft to be stored centered on the launch pos marker?  I'm reckoning the center line, but it could just as easily be Com or an arbitrary point

Finally and most importantly for us ship (marine type) users could a way be found to have a selection of launch positions?  available via gui perhaps, that pos once set would be set for all time, so as to avoid oddness with craft placements , as mentioned above I'm already doing this via cfg edits and preplaced  transforms, but it's less than user friendly ( 173 )

Yup that's it for now, for those parts we don't have problems with it's a fantastic addition cheers.... I had a feeling there was something else.  the hangar triggers, they are checked as trigger in unity, as per instructions, but seem inactive, switching them to part trigger layer did not help either, entry triggers remain inactive, any ideas?

Cheers

I'm sorry I was holding the answer for so long :(

0) Two sets of arrows are: one for the whole vessel (to know how such vessel will be oriented during strict positioning); the other for the launch transform of the HangarStorage. I'll try to differentiate between the two visually somehow.

1) AutoPositionVessel is an option of HangarStorage that, if set to true, forces the Storage to only use position of that transform and search for the orientation in which a vessel fits best. Otherwise (Strict Positioning) the storage spawns a vessel oriented as SpawnTransform. The latter is mostly needed for on-planet hangars where you what the wheels of a spawned vessel to be always pointed to the ground.

2) Launch position markers are there (see 0). And I'm working on hangar space display in editor. It's not that simple as naive direct mesh construction and rendering causes stable OOM crashes.

3) A craft is centered using the center of its bounding box, i.e. it is geometrically centered. And HangarStorage has  the SpawnOffset option to offset this position in terms of vessel extents: offset of (1, 0.5, 0) will move a vessel to (half-width, quater-height, 0) from the SpawnTransform.

4) Multi spawn transforms are doable. But we need to discuss specifics before I commit to it. And if all you're trying to do is to place any vessel near the floor, use SpawnOffset for that: place the SpawnTransform at the floor and the Offset to (0,0,1), if  I'm not mistaken.

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6 hours ago, allista said:

I'm sorry I was holding the answer for so long :(

0) Two sets of arrows are: one for the whole vessel (to know how such vessel will be oriented during strict positioning); the other for the launch transform of the HangarStorage. I'll try to differentiate between the two visually somehow.

1) AutoPositionVessel is an option of HangarStorage that, if set to true, forces the Storage to only use position of that transform and search for the orientation in which a vessel fits best. Otherwise (Strict Positioning) the storage spawns a vessel oriented as SpawnTransform. The latter is mostly needed for on-planet hangars where you what the wheels of a spawned vessel to be always pointed to the ground.

2) Launch position markers are there (see 0). And I'm working on hangar space display in editor. It's not that simple as naive direct mesh construction and rendering causes stable OOM crashes.

3) A craft is centered using the center of its bounding box, i.e. it is geometrically centered. And HangarStorage has  the SpawnOffset option to offset this position in terms of vessel extents: offset of (1, 0.5, 0) will move a vessel to (half-width, quater-height, 0) from the SpawnTransform.

4) Multi spawn transforms are doable. But we need to discuss specifics before I commit to it. And if all you're trying to do is to place any vessel near the floor, use SpawnOffset for that: place the SpawnTransform at the floor and the Offset to (0,0,1), if  I'm not mistaken.

Hi thanks for getting back to me,  I ended up pulling the feature for the LBP 1.2 releases as it was just to troublesome for a non mod maker to use.  

The problem we are having is that the  space we have to use is limited so we need to get the max storage possible for the given space.  As mentioned we have found that even craft that visibly  fit with enough clearance will not store. The hangar module in all cases is only fractionally  smaller than the space available, so it's not a size of collider problem, Ive checked and rechecked that there are no contact points between the module collider and the hangar wall colliders. Also checked that no scales are applied to any of the hangar transforms, all transforms are at 1.  For obvious reasons I'd like to include the feature on any hull part that has a storage space, but  for now I'd  settle with just getting the largest hangar functional and possibly versatile.  

A point of note, i can store loads of smaller craft no problem at all , and there is a fixed limit on the size that can be stored, as it has to come out of a doorway (1 of 6) , so all craft are considerably smaller than the full hangar space So we're not trying to store things of exceptional size.

Re the answers (0) As I've always seen two sets of arrows, I'm presuming that the larger represents the spawn and the smaller represents the direction, sort of irrelevant now as I've noted the exact positions of the spawn point and as the scale is correct it's an easily measurable thing.

1) Auto position isn't suitable as the primary use is within the atmosphere and at sea level , thanks for the explanation all the same.

2)  the hangar space visibility is also not really required for the same reason as 0, the exact size is known. and noted in the cfg info

3) Bounding box, OK , that clears that up and its the geometric center of the model as a whole.    Offsetting the spawn is what I'm doing, but with a physical transform, although the spawnoffset options would potentially allow finer adjustment using it really would be no improvement over my method,  as to change the offset , the game still has to be closed the cfg altered the MM cache dumped and the game restarted  So still not very user friendly

4) re the multiple spawn positions, it has nothing to do with getting wheels on the floor, as most aircraft/vehicles have no problem dropping a couple of hundred mm at spawn, (plus we have a  method of quickly getting them out of the hangar which removes that problem)  The issue is purely one of getting things that will physically fit in the allowed space, to store.  See image below, box collider is present just for visibility purposes and is removed before export.  We have 12 mtr clearance top to bottom, 57mtr wide and 150+ hangar length, So you'd think that we'd be able to fit a very varied range of craft inside, this is not the case, what works for one aircraft will likely not work for another design and what works for vehicles usually  only suits the smallest of aircraft which makes the whole thing considerably less versatile .

Surely if the spawn position was on the floor and the bounding box,  that covers the whole craft including gear is centered on that transform  then anything below the spawn point  offset   say (0,0,1.2) would be contacting the hangar module and would not be able to store?? and we'd be back where we started.

LXhSJ8m.png

Just one more question. are all those plugins and patches required in order for the hangar to function?  it appears so as not including any of them seems to stop the hangar functioning,  is there any option for just the hangar plugin? i see the the utilities plugin may also be  needed but what about the others?   they seem a bit superfluous especially as I only really need the hangar element of the package (unless they have some undescribed very cool/useful feature i can exploit in some way of course :) )

Despite my less than positive tone I'd very much like to get this working in a user friendly manner, so much so that now the release of 1.2 LBP is done I've re enabled all the conversions and thrown them back to the testers for round 2.

Cheers

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17 hours ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

Hi thanks for getting back to me,  I ended up pulling the feature for the LBP 1.2 releases as it was just to troublesome for a non mod maker to use.

Spoiler

The problem we are having is that the  space we have to use is limited so we need to get the max storage possible for the given space.  As mentioned we have found that even craft that visibly  fit with enough clearance will not store. The hangar module in all cases is only fractionally  smaller than the space available, so it's not a size of collider problem, Ive checked and rechecked that there are no contact points between the module collider and the hangar wall colliders. Also checked that no scales are applied to any of the hangar transforms, all transforms are at 1.  For obvious reasons I'd like to include the feature on any hull part that has a storage space, but  for now I'd  settle with just getting the largest hangar functional and possibly versatile.  

A point of note, i can store loads of smaller craft no problem at all , and there is a fixed limit on the size that can be stored, as it has to come out of a doorway (1 of 6) , so all craft are considerably smaller than the full hangar space So we're not trying to store things of exceptional size.

Re the answers (0) As I've always seen two sets of arrows, I'm presuming that the larger represents the spawn and the smaller represents the direction, sort of irrelevant now as I've noted the exact positions of the spawn point and as the scale is correct it's an easily measurable thing.

1) Auto position isn't suitable as the primary use is within the atmosphere and at sea level , thanks for the explanation all the same.

2)  the hangar space visibility is also not really required for the same reason as 0, the exact size is known. and noted in the cfg info

3) Bounding box, OK , that clears that up and its the geometric center of the model as a whole.    Offsetting the spawn is what I'm doing, but with a physical transform, although the spawnoffset options would potentially allow finer adjustment using it really would be no improvement over my method,  as to change the offset , the game still has to be closed the cfg altered the MM cache dumped and the game restarted  So still not very user friendly

4) re the multiple spawn positions, it has nothing to do with getting wheels on the floor, as most aircraft/vehicles have no problem dropping a couple of hundred mm at spawn, (plus we have a  method of quickly getting them out of the hangar which removes that problem)  The issue is purely one of getting things that will physically fit in the allowed space, to store.  See image below, box collider is present just for visibility purposes and is removed before export.  We have 12 mtr clearance top to bottom, 57mtr wide and 150+ hangar length, So you'd think that we'd be able to fit a very varied range of craft inside, this is not the case, what works for one aircraft will likely not work for another design and what works for vehicles usually  only suits the smallest of aircraft which makes the whole thing considerably less versatile .

Surely if the spawn position was on the floor and the bounding box,  that covers the whole craft including gear is centered on that transform  then anything below the spawn point  offset   say (0,0,1.2) would be contacting the hangar module and would not be able to store?? and we'd be back where we started.

Just one more question. are all those plugins and patches required in order for the hangar to function?  it appears so as not including any of them seems to stop the hangar functioning,  is there any option for just the hangar plugin? i see the the utilities plugin may also be  needed but what about the others?   they seem a bit superfluous especially as I only really need the hangar element of the package (unless they have some undescribed very cool/useful feature i can exploit in some way of course :) )

Despite my less than positive tone I'd very much like to get this working in a user friendly manner, so much so that now the release of 1.2 LBP is done I've re enabled all the conversions and thrown them back to the testers for round 2.

Cheers

Hm... I still don't understand what do you need multiple launch positions for: to be able to store/launch some vessels that don't "fit" when they really fit? I say, that's a bug that should be addressed in the code by me, not a thing you should try to solve with MM patches.

And I want to explain once again, as it seems I didn't make it clear for the first time: the SpawnOffset setting is not for "finer" adjustments; it is not for adjustments at all. The components of this vector are not in meters, they're relative to the stored/launched vessel size. If you place the SpawnTransform at the bottom of your hangar, then set the SpawnOffset to (0, 0, -1), any launched vessel will be placed so that its bottom boundary will be level with the SpawnTransform.

Let me make a simple demonstration hangar with the characteristics you've provided so that you could see how it works for yourself.

Edited by allista

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