[b]Do you use the [u]Desaturated Texture Pack?[/u][/b]  

273 members have voted

  1. 1. [b]Do you use the [u]Desaturated Texture Pack?[/u][/b]

    • Yes, the grey textures are more stock-like
      136
    • No, the green-orange textures are fine
      40


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2 hours ago, superqboi said:

Can I install this in a career save that has already been started? I'm at the point where I can use rover arms for science now but I'm having trouble keeping the rovers mass centered on my rocket while still being able to offload them once landed so this mod sounds like it'll fix that issue for me!

Sure, why not?

Depending on your settings you may need to purchase the parts in tech tree nodes, though.

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@allista been working on updating a mod with LinuxGuruGamer - OrbitalTug, several parts have cargobays that appear to be large enough to hold the helperDrones (also in mod).

Two questions:

  1. can those cargobays be converted to use hangers, and
  2. how difficult would it be to do so?

Thank you in advance!

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1 hour ago, zer0Kerbal said:

@allista been working on updating a mod with LinuxGuruGamer - OrbitalTug, several parts have cargobays that appear to be large enough to hold the helperDrones (also in mod).

Two questions:

  1. can those cargobays be converted to use hangers, and
  2. how difficult would it be to do so?

Thank you in advance!

Definitely can be.

It's a matter of making the mesh for internal space,+ a launch transform, and exporting it all as .mu, then patching the part via MODEL node in its config, like I did it for the stock Mk2/3 bays:

https://github.com/allista/hangar/blob/master/GameData/Hangar/MM/Squad.cfg

Then replacing generic animator with the hangar's MultiGeometryAnimator and adding modules for storage and hangar machinery.

When you're up to it, I propose to make a screencast where I do it for one part to explain all aspects.

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1 minute ago, allista said:

Definitely can be.

It's a matter of making the mesh for internal space,+ a launch transform, and exporting it all as .mu, then patching the part via MODEL node in its config, like I did it for the stock Mk2/3 bays:

https://github.com/allista/hangar/blob/master/GameData/Hangar/MM/Squad.cfg

Then replacing generic animator with the hangar's MultiGeometryAnimator and adding modules for storage and hangar machinery.

When you're up to it, I propose to make a screencast where I do it for one part to explain all aspects.

thank you, would love to, however way above my ability with blender/unity. :(

I can and do parts and MM patches reasonably competently at a little above novice beginner level.

will keep it in mind for the near future(ish).

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4 minutes ago, zer0Kerbal said:

thank you, would love to, however way above my ability with blender/unity. :(

I can and do parts and MM patches reasonably competently at a little above novice beginner level.

will keep it in mind for the near future(ish).

In that case I can just make it all, still screencasting for the profit of other modders :cool:

It's not much work, really.

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1 minute ago, allista said:

In that case I can just make it all, still screencasting for the profit of other modders :cool:

It's not much work, really.

thank you.

I am thinking that it is, as you say, not all that much work - it is my skill level in blender/unity that I question. I've tried making one part, a battery that looks like a fuel tank - and well, that still doesn't look like anything except a Jeb creation.

could make a great tutorial since not a complex or large space.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/10/2019 at 12:07 PM, allista said:

Can't help noticing that the Hangar is by far the least popular of my mods.

Naturally, I wonder why: is it just a narrow ecological niche, since part count is not such a big problem now? 

Or some points in the mod have to be drastically improved to make in more usable?

Please count me as one of the grateful users of Hangar. However, it took a while for it to grow on me. Main reason for my reluctance is aesthetics. I like the OPT mod a lot. So I use it to design my ships. So when it comes time to actually use the ship to bring something up to orbit, I have to rework my ship and payload so that the hangar fits the ship and the payload fits the hangar.

What would be nice is if you can take the concept a bit further. For example, if I want a long cargo bay, I can connect 2 OPT KH cargo bays together. Right now, I can place an Inline Hangar inside the combined cargo bay, change the size an aspect of the hangar so that it fills up the combined OPT cargo bay, and use the Hangar as designed. The down side is that I cannot fully utilize the space in the OPT cargo bay because I'm limited by the size of the Inline Hangar. Also limited by the shape of the hangar. It's round; inside is hex; and the walls are thick that the payload size is restricted. So now, I have to change my payload to fit.

I can use a Ground Hangar. But it opens along the axial plane. The Inline Hangar is nice because it can open on the dorsal or ventral planes.

So... A boxy hangar like the Ground Hangar that opens on dorsal or ventral planes would be nice. The walls won't be as thick as with the Inline Hangar. The current feature of being able to change the size and aspect is perfect.

Also, having the ability to change the payload's orientation when it exits the hangar would be nice. Right now, if I use the Inline Hangar in a cargo bay, when I deploy the payload, the payload is lying on its side. Not an issue when in outer space. It's an issue on the ground. I designed a drone payload that would fly out of the cargo bay. When it came time to deploy, it was on its side.

Please take the above as requests for "icing-on-the-cake". Without them, I'm happily using the mod. If they get incorporated in a future release, it would be a boon. Thanks.

Edited by bcqJC
typos

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2 hours ago, bcqJC said:

Also, having the ability to change the payload's orientation when it exits the hangar would be nice.

I second this!

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6 hours ago, bcqJC said:

Also, having the ability to change the payload's orientation when it exits the hangar would be nice.

 

3 hours ago, MaxPeck said:

I second this!

This seems doable now that I have some experience with the same task in GC. But there are some principle limitations: when a hangar stores a payload, it places it in a box of appropriate dimensions, then packs all the boxes without rotation, trying to utilize space better. Inline hangars, in addition, choose the best (in terms of storage) orientation before that; that's why your drone, @bcqJC, ended up on it's side. So to choose different orientation before launch, there must be enough free space in the hangar to accommodate it first.

6 hours ago, bcqJC said:

For example, if I want a long cargo bay, I can connect 2 OPT KH cargo bays together.

Combining two hangar parts so they act like one would be too difficult to implement; wouldn't even know where to start actually.

What I can do though is to make conversion for OPT cargo bays, turning them into resizable hangars. That'll solve both the aesthetics and the length problems.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, allista said:

 

This seems doable now that I have some experience with the same task in GC. But there are some principle limitations: when a hangar stores a payload, it places it in a box of appropriate dimensions, then packs all the boxes without rotation, trying to utilize space better. Inline hangars, in addition, choose the best (in terms of storage) orientation before that; that's why your drone, @bcqJC, ended up on it's side. So to choose different orientation before launch, there must be enough free space in the hangar to accommodate it first.

But can you change the orientation after launch?  Does the storage position have to correspond with the launch position, or can hanger say “it’s packed this way for storage, but when it launches it will be this way.”

I think really one of the biggest issues is the ability to roll the craft along its long axis so that it’s facing up when it gets magicked into existence. Or if there was just an option to align the the craft’s “up” with the hangar door opening at launch. 

Edited by MaxPeck

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6 minutes ago, MaxPeck said:

But can you change the orientation after launch?  Does the storage position have to correspond with the launch position, or can hanger say “it’s packed this way for storage, but when it launches it will be this way.”

I think really one of the biggest issues is the ability to roll the craft along its long axis so that it’s facing up when it gets magicked into existence. Or if there was just an option to align the the craft’s “up” with the hangar door opening at launch. 

Technically there's no problem in realigning during launch however I like. But from the physical point of view, there has to be "space" to realign in. It's not that the packed payloads (may be many in this hangar) live in some isolated spacetime pocket outside of the hanger interior :D

But. All this just adds up to some checks that would allow some orientation and forbid others.

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, allista said:

Combining two hangar parts so they act like one would be too difficult to implement; wouldn't even know where to start actually.

What I can do though is to make conversion for OPT cargo bays, turning them into resizable hangars. That'll solve both the aesthetics and the length problems.

Oh... I wasn't asking for functionality to combine hangar parts. Just having hangars that can be resized (already existing functionality), have different bay door placement, and thinner walls.

Below is an example of one of my recent ships. Note that I placed an Inline Hangar inside 2 OPT Cargo bays. Then I resized the Hangar to fit snugly inside. I was able to carry 6 small satellites in 1 flight using this setup.

A Ground Hangar would have been a better fit because it is a box (not a cylinder like the Inline Hangar), but the bay doors open along the axial plane. Also, the Ground Hangar has thinner walls.

So to summarize, at least for me, there's no need to code for combining hangar parts. The existing parts are ok. Just give us options/flexibility on the door placement - for example, a boxy hangar with doors that open vertically like the Inline Hangar.

Also, that way, there's no need for you to do a conversion for each type of cargo bay out there.

Thanks.

Edit: Also just noticed that there's the option to push out the payload from the Hangar on deployment. Thanks for that. I've been using Kerbals on EVA to nudge the payload out when in orbit.

WEpFYG3.png

Edited by bcqJC

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11 hours ago, bcqJC said:

Oh... I wasn't asking for functionality to combine hangar parts. Just having hangars that can be resized (already existing functionality), have different bay door placement, and thinner walls.

Below is an example of one of my recent ships. Note that I placed an Inline Hangar inside 2 OPT Cargo bays. Then I resized the Hangar to fit snugly inside. I was able to carry 6 small satellites in 1 flight using this setup.

A Ground Hangar would have been a better fit because it is a box (not a cylinder like the Inline Hangar), but the bay doors open along the axial plane. Also, the Ground Hangar has thinner walls.

So to summarize, at least for me, there's no need to code for combining hangar parts. The existing parts are ok. Just give us options/flexibility on the door placement - for example, a boxy hangar with doors that open vertically like the Inline Hangar.

Also, that way, there's no need for you to do a conversion for each type of cargo bay out there.

Thanks.

Edit: Also just noticed that there's the option to push out the payload from the Hangar on deployment. Thanks for that. I've been using Kerbals on EVA to nudge the payload out when in orbit.

WEpFYG3.png

Nevertheless, it's technically easier to make the conversion than a full part, especially if I can't make it match the OPT style. I'm bad at texturing :/

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@allista. I really appreciate you taking the time to consider our opinions. I hope I'm not overstaying my welcome.

You don't have to worry about texturing. As you can see below, I cobbled up a couple of OPT parts and Hangar parts and placed a Mk2 Cockpit inside the Hangars to illustrate my point.

Because you provided us with the option to change the size and aspect of some of the parts, if I want to use the upwards opening of the OPT KH Cargo Bays, I can place the Inline Hangar inside and resize it to fit. From the outside, it looks like the Inline Hangar is part of the OPT Cargo Bays.

If instead, I want a ship that just has the cargo ramp, I can use either the Radial Hangar or the Ground Hangar and place them inside the cargo bays. Although for this, I'd prefer the Radial Hangar because it has the option to change the Size and Aspect.

So if you can provide us with a version of the Radial Hangar where the doors are along the long axis, like the Inline Hangar, then we'll have a boxy hangar that we can place inside cargo bays.

And another icing would be the option to change the orientation of the payload on deployment - as @MaxPeck mentioned. I'm thinking ahead here. If you give us a Radial Hangar with doors along the long axis, I can look forward to using the MarkIV Spaceplane mod. That mod has cargo bays that open downwards instead of upwards. That's when having the ability to change the orientation of the payload will be crucial.

As you can see, the texture of the Hangar parts won't matter if we have the flexibility to place them inside existing parts; resize them as desired; and change the orientation of the payload on deployment.

DT7Hesc.png

 

Here's an image showing how flipping the Radial Hangar changes the orientation of the payload. If you go through with having a door on the long axis, away from the radial attachment point, if we want to use the part as a downward opening hangar, the payload would be upside down when deployed. Unless we have the option to change the orientation.

f0QiUm3.png

Again, many thanks for your attention.

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Posted (edited)

Version 3.3.7 for Kerbal Space Program 1.7.2

Released on 2019-06-17

  • Using the common Color Scheme for the hangar content hint color
  • Fixed transfer window behavior when selected payload is switched
  • Added Show button that displays content hint for a short time
    • this is actually a step toward user-controlled orientation of the payload

 Download 

Edited by allista

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3 hours ago, allista said:
  • Added Show button that displays content hint for a short time
    • this is actually a step toward user-controlled orientation of the payload

Thanks!

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4 hours ago, allista said:

Added Show button that displays content hint for a short time

  • this is actually a step toward user-controlled orientation of the payload

 

MaxPeck likes this. A lot. 

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On 6/17/2019 at 7:40 PM, MaxPeck said:

MaxPeck likes this. A lot. 

And also @bcqJC

I've more or less made it work with user-defined spawn orientation and wanted to show you (and everyone here), before moving forward with it, as it changes A LOT in terms of user experience with the Hangar.

So, today at 20:00 UTC I'll be streaming at twitch. Tune in, watch and ask questions (better in my discord server).
I'll post again before going live...

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Going live...
UPD: and done. Not that much audience, but you can watch the record for some time on twitch.

Edited by allista

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9 hours ago, allista said:

Going live...
UPD: and done. Not that much audience, but you can watch the record for some time on twitch.

Sorry man, I’m away from home right now with sketchy internet. I’ll watch the replay on twitch as soon as practical. 

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1 hour ago, MaxPeck said:

Sorry man, I’m away from home right now with sketchy internet. I’ll watch the replay on twitch as soon as practical. 

No worries! :cool:

I need to practice live streaming anyway. I write alright, but as soon as I start speaking at the microphone, even when recording for future editing (let alone go live), I instantly forger all the words, my own name and why I'm sitting here in the first place :confused:

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Hey @allista! I am an avid user of the hangar mod. Considering the problems with partcounts, your mod should be a stock feature. 

I have couple feature requests if that's not too much trouble:

When using hangar my greatest problem with it is that I jam too large ships in too small hangars. They fit inside the hangar going in, but more often than not instantly collide with the mothership coming out of the hangar:) 
Also, like said above, some hangars do not fit the visual style of the ships. 

So, I suggest a tiny bit cheaty solution, but one that would service pretty much everyone. Add a (optional?) hangar that is just a docking port or a claw that creates a "virtual" invisible hangar around it. Basically allowing you to store ships without the confining structure. Then players could just pop one inside whatever cargo bay or structure, adjust it's size to match to create hangar anywhere!:)

Your space hangars could also spawn the ship outside just in front of the hangar to prevent instant collisions. Maybe allow this as an option?

What do you think? Would this be doable?

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Thanks for suggestions, I always appreciate them! :)

20 minutes ago, Anth said:

They fit inside the hangar going in, but more often than not instantly collide with the mothership coming out of the hangar:) 

Now this shouldn't actually be happening. The checks that ensure the payload fits inside are geometrically strict, no guessing here. And as you may see in the latest video on twitch (see above), the relative velocity of the launched payload (when not pushed away at launch) is zero. So if something collides with the hangar it means something is wrong with the calculations and I want to test and fix it.

Do you have a .craft file or a save to test?

23 minutes ago, Anth said:

Add a (optional?) hangar that is just a docking port or a claw that creates a "virtual" invisible hangar around it.

This is what Hangar Gateways and Hangar Extensions are actually about. Not exactly, but in spirit: a gateway is a part that provides facilities for ships to go in and out of the storage behind it. It may or may not have geometrical constrains or walls; the actual constrains come from the storage, but they're not physically enforced. An extension is a part that provides storage for ships, but cannot accept and launch them itself. So by combining the two (which could be done in a single part actually, like with VTOL hangar) you can in principle have what you want. Not as virtual as you suggest: you would still need physical parts to reserve space for docked vessels; but this would solve the problem of confined hangar spaces.

Two problems there: first, there's only one gateway part at the moment -- the Asteroid Hangar Gateway, which also have walls and thus constrain vessel dimensions. Second, personally, I don't like the idea of bodyless hangars. At least, I can't myself make one that satisfies me aesthetically.

Hey, @everyone, who wants to model some cool hangars for the mod? :cool:

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Made a twitch highlight from the latest stream, so that you could see all the interesting parts in some 13 minutes instead of 30 :rolleyes:

 

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