Kerbodyne SSTO Division: Omnibus Thread

[Wingblaze]

I just spent a couple hours with The Dairyman and that's rough. Avoiding the tail strike on takeoff is one thing. But avoiding it on landing is something else entirely. I was not able to successfully land it once.

(Unfortunately the Epi is using some part I don't have unlocked in my contracts game yet. I wish it would tell you what it was.)

[Wanderfound]

I just spent a couple hours with The Dairyman and that's rough. Avoiding the tail strike on takeoff is one thing. But avoiding it on landing is something else entirely. I was not able to successfully land it once.

(Unfortunately the Epi is using some part I don't have unlocked in my contracts game yet. I wish it would tell you what it was.)

That's what the spoilers are for: keep the plane level and use the spoilers to push you down onto the runway (they're mounted a whisker behind CoM, so they'll cause a tiny bit of pitch up, but that can be controlled with a hint of forward stick). You shouldn't need to pitch up at all during final approach. Wash off speed before and after touchdown, not during. Landing with RCS on so that the Vernors can aid in holding the nose down and assist with post-touchdown braking should also help.

I'll post some demo screenshots tomorrow if you want.

The high tech bit on the Epinephrine is probably the batteries (stashed in the service compartment). Try loading the plane in a sandbox save and swapping them for the basic ones.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Wanderfound

[Wanderfound]

Alternately, have a play with the Jackaroo: that has an extra set of high mounted gear right under the engines to make it virtually tailstrike proof.

[Wingblaze]

The high tech bit on the Epinephrine is probably the batteries (stashed in the service compartment). Try loading the plane in a sandbox save and swapping them for the basic ones.

Found it - the Mk2 drone core.

[Wanderfound]

Found it - the Mk2 drone core.

Cool, glad that's sorted.

Have you tried any of the smaller stuff yet (de Minimus, Velociraptor II, Benchmark, Goblin, etc)? Epinephrine is one of my best, but it's a bit oversized for a lot of things.

Do the explanations for Ferram's analysis tools that I posted in the description of Dairyman make sense?

Edited September 20, 2014 by Wanderfound

[Wanderfound]

See https://www.dropbox.com/s/il93oc28t9228j5/Kerbodyne%20Dairyman%20TSP.craft?dl=0 for a tailstrike-proofed version of the Dairyman, btw.

It's definitely landable without them, but no sense in making things harder for no reason.

Edited September 20, 2014 by Wanderfound

[Wingblaze]

I've definitely taken a few of them up but probably used Epi the most. In haven't tried to land the Dairyman yet with the new information. I got what you were saying but it was mostly a function of not being experienced enough the first time to use the flaps/spoilers well.

I did take the Dairyman up, refuel it (ok I hyperedited it but still) went to the Mun, landed, did my thing, came back. I ran out of gas on the way back, and also screwed up my probe release. I'm assuming it was poor flying that made me run out of fuel the second time but not sure.

And my girlfriend is amused that you put training wheels on the new version for me

[Wanderfound]

I've definitely taken a few of them up but probably used Epi the most. In haven't tried to land the Dairyman yet with the new information. I got what you were saying but it was mostly a function of not being experienced enough the first time to use the flaps/spoilers well.

I did take the Dairyman up, refuel it (ok I hyperedited it but still) went to the Mun, landed, did my thing, came back. I ran out of gas on the way back, and also screwed up my probe release. I'm assuming it was poor flying that made me run out of fuel the second time but not sure.

And my girlfriend is amused that you put training wheels on the new version for me

Poke around and you'll see that a fair few of my heavy cargo designs have tailstrike guards. They're very handy when you're trying to get an overloaded plane off a short runway; you can just crank the stick hard back without worrying about hitting anything.

The VTOL jets are fuel hogs; you need to minimise their use. Kill as much of your orbital velocity with the more efficient main engines as possible. Come in to the surface of the Mun on a shallow angle, and just use the VTOL to control the last few hundred metres of the descent. Don't use them at all when getting back off the Mun beyond a momentary puff to lift the nose.

On the return to Kerbin, you want to aerobrake. If you can get your periapsis into Kerbin's atmosphere at all, then you can make it home, even if you're totally out of gas. The first time I took Longreach to Minmus, I think I had six units of oxidiser left as I departed Minmus SOI.

What went wrong with the satellite drop?

Edited September 21, 2014 by Wanderfound

[Wanderfound]

BTW, Wanderfound's Landing Guide.

* Send a Kerbal to the beach at the east end of the runway. Plant a flag. You now have a landing beacon.

* Set the flag as a target on approach. If your prograde and target markers coincide, you're heading for the end of the runway. If they aren't on a bearing of 90° while you're doing this, you're coming in at an angle. Fly to the side until the target indicator is at 90°. Then fly towards it.

* Get lined up, low and slow as soon as possible. As soon as you're over the mountains, start doing S-turns and drop to the deck. Pull it down to <150m/s and <500m altitude, then point at the runway and level your wings. The shallower the approach the better. Keep engines on minimal throttle to hold speed constant.

* Avoid any drastic manoeuvres over the runway. You'll probably overdo it and make things worse.

* Watch your VSI (vertical speed, to the right of the altitude meter) and keep it to 5m/s or so. Triggering spoilers will increase it; balance the spoilers will gentle pitch-up.

* Don't be afraid to wave off and go around again if it gets messy. Also remember that the paddock beside the runway is an easier landing strip than the runway itself.

* Be ready to hit the brakes and do some delicate steering as soon as you land. Stick to the middle of the runway if you're using it. Trigger RCS and Vernors and use the "N" key for retro thrust.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Wanderfound

[Wingblaze]

What went wrong with the satellite drop?

I tried to use some junior docking ports in the cargo bay. I had a hard time getting things lined up right. I thought I had it right. I didn't. The docking ports want to pivot a lot at the attachment point.

[Wanderfound]

I tried to use some junior docking ports in the cargo bay. I had a hard time getting things lined up right. I thought I had it right. I didn't. The docking ports want to pivot a lot at the attachment point.

Docking ports are wobbly, jr's especially so. If it's a drop-and-leave I'll use decouplers and struts; it it's intended to be recollected, I'll use a normal size docking port and struts, using KAS struts on EVA after the first release.

Put the plane on the runway with the doors open, watch the cargo as it drops. If it flexes, strut more.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Wanderfound

[Wingblaze]

First successful Dairyman landing. Granted, not on the runway. More like the green field after the mountains. I'll take it. Almost made it to Minmus (landed) and back without a refuel. I did put two vernors on the front to help me dump speed when coming in.

[Wanderfound]

First successful Dairyman landing. Granted, not on the runway. More like the green field after the mountains. I'll take it. Almost made it to Minmus (landed) and back without a refuel. I did put two vernors on the front to help me dump speed when coming in.

Woo! Smooth and flat, or did the tailstrike guards come in useful?

S-turns on approach are the most effective way to dump speed, but the Vernors are very good for post-touchdown slowdowns. A couple of forward-facing Sepratrons ain't bad for that, either.

The approach paddock is a bit bumpy (and there's an irritating crest just before KSC), but it's dead flat once you're within the KSC biome. Just to the left of the strip is the best non-runway landing strip.

Most everything except for the long-range specialists is going to want an orbital refuel before landing elsewhere. If you don't already have a station, just send up a Wedgetail and park it in orbit.

Edited September 21, 2014 by Wanderfound

[Wingblaze]

Woo! Smooth and flat, or did the tailstrike guards come in useful?

S-turns on approach are the most effective way to dump speed, but the Vernors are very good for post-touchdown slowdowns. A couple of forward-facing Sepratrons ain't bad for that, either.

The approach paddock is a bit bumpy (and there's an irritating crest just before KSC), but it's dead flat once you're within the KSC biome. Just to the left of the strip is the best non-runway landing strip.

Most everything except for the long-range specialists is going to want an orbital refuel before landing elsewhere. If you don't already have a station, just send up a Wedgetail and park it in orbit.

I believe it was smooth and flat. I wasn't intending to land there but I was coming in so nice before the ground fell away that I decided to take it. (And for contract purposes it was a 97%+ cost recovery so no worries there.) (And the probe deployment worked fine, though the decoupler really changed the orbit of the probe relative to the ship.)

I was a little wary of trying S-turns as it's so hard to get lined up in the first place and based on past experience, I really only needed to dump a little velocity - I was coming in just under 200m/s and it's just too fast.

I like the idea of just parking a Wedgetail. Right now I'm just hyperediting it - I'm trying to learn how to fly, and didn't want to put up a station just for that.

So a new question if I may: What do the FAR flight assistance toggles do, and do I want them on?

[Wanderfound]

So a new question if I may: What do the FAR flight assistance toggles do, and do I want them on?

Click on the FAR help function and Ferram will tell you himself.

They damp out changes in the respective axes. Usually, with a good plane you want them off.

[Wanderfound]

For good S-turn and landing practice, give http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/91511-Spaceplane-Speed-Challenge-2-Fastest-time-from-orbit-to-runway a go.

[Wingblaze]

Done. Not exactly a record breaking attempt.

[Wanderfound]

As soon as the excruciating wait for the release of KSP 0.25 ends, Porkjet's beautiful cargo bays will become stock. Soon, everyone will have the joy of dealing with the infamously wobbly inline nodes and overly sticky radial attachment well known to fans of Spaceplane Plus. Also heard will be the always-entertaining cries of anguish from those who discover the fact that just because you can get the cargo in to the bay in the SPH, it doesn't always follow that you can get the cargo out of the bay in orbit.

Well, never let it be said that the boys at Kerbodyne would watch an opportunity for profit sail past unmolested. Presenting the new range of SP+ approved parasite spacecraft from Kerbodyne Payload Solutions. Just download these subassemblies, attach them to the end of your cargo bay, add a few struts for stability and away you go.

(structural fuselage and girder sections for display purposes only; not part of the actual spacecraft)

Kerbodyne Microsat: just the thing for Fine Print satellite deployment contracts, as well as stock game "science from space". Small enough to fit in a service compartment, or to be stacked with companions in a larger bay for multiple-deployment missions.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0pzmzwq3bvrguuf/Microsat.craft?dl=0

Kerbodyne Microbus. Sure, the old 2-stage spaceplane to orbit probe drop works fine for the close-in stuff. But when you want to put down some serious distance, that's where the 3-stage comes in. Dock this with a Kerbodyne Microlander and you can go anywhere you like. Either lift them individually with a pair of light cargo planes, or pack the pair into a Kerbodyne Brutus or the like for a single monster long-range package.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5tagkdw0o45k1o9/Microbus.craft?dl=0

For all your intra-orbital crew transfer needs: the Kerbodyne T-Shuttle. Also useful as an emergency reentry pod.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ltmfyiaf7ctghjj/Transfer%20Shuttle.craft?dl=0

Edited October 2, 2014 by Wanderfound

[Wingblaze]

Wanderfound - do you have issues with Kerbpaint where parts start becoming unpainted or after you paint them and paint other parts, then suddenly one wing is painted while the other one isn't?

[Wanderfound]

Wanderfound - do you have issues with Kerbpaint where parts start becoming unpainted or after you paint them and paint other parts, then suddenly one wing is painted while the other one isn't?

See my response on the Kerbpaint thread; it's a known symmetry bug. Kerbpaint is unmaintained zombieware, unfortunately.

[Wanderfound]

Last of the classics! Get it now before "all-stock" spaceplane completely changes in meaning!

We bring you the pinnacle of the Kerbodyne flight trainer line: the Invector.

Same polished aerodynamics as the Evangelist, now with space-going capability and enough fuel to reach escape velocity and beyond.

Download at https://www.dropbox.com/s/07ahgji6q4v3y6q/Kerbodyne%20Invector.craft?dl=0

All stock parts, no mods required. Designed for FAR. Optional paintjob requires Kerbpaint.

-

Kerbodyne Invector

Exceptional speed and stability. Able to be flown hands-off at high levels of time acceleration all the way from runway to orbit.

High-visibility cockpit. IVA cameras optional.

All-points landing gear greatly simplify touchdowns. Wing mounted spoilers further assist in descent control.

Single-engine design reduces weight and complexity while preventing asymmetric flameouts. Mode-switching of the RAPIER set to manual by default. Change modes when you want to, not when the machine decides to.

Perfectly stable behaviour at takeoff speed.

Equally flawless in extreme altitude hypersonic regimes.

Smooth across the speed range.

Perfect control for subsonic aerobatics.

Tolerates extreme AoA at low speeds.

Action Groups

1: Toggle RAPIER

2: Switch RAPIER mode

3: Toggle intakes

5: Set trim to input (only if Enhanced Trim is installed)

6: Clear trim (only if Enhanced Trim is installed)

0: Toggle spoilers

Fuel balance maintained via Goodspeed by design; if flying without a fuel-pump mod, manually transfer fuel from rear to forward tanks prior to reentry to enhance stability. The plane is stable wet or dry, and flyable even with a rear-biased half load, but keeping the weight centred will allow more margin for piloting error.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Wanderfound

[Jovus]

Wanderfound, you have a gift for making planes. Is there any chance you could do a small FAR-centric tutorial for those of us who have gotten past the basics (CoL/CoM, gross wing configurations, etc.) but who still haven't quite 'gotten it'? I'm thinking of things like the FAR stability derivatives and broad information on how different configurations affect them, CoM stabilizing tricks, and the like. It would be very greatly appreciated.

[Wanderfound]

The Kerbodyne Ranger, your all-in-one let's-explore-the-universe package. Combined air-breathing nuclear propulsion allows extreme fuel efficiency in both orbit and atmosphere. This efficiency is put to good use in delivering a custom-fitted planetary science lander, ready to biome-hop its way across Minmus or the Mun.

Jump in and go; the solar system awaits.

Not slow.

Large cargo bay custom-fitted to one Kerbodyne Microlander Pro.

Capable of a land-and-return on any of the low-grav moons. More stable than it looks.

Use KAS struts to re-secure cargo after initial deployment.

Takeoff.

Low speed aerobatic.

High-speed high-altitude.

Full speed range.

Action Groups

1: Toggle nuclear rocket.

2: Toggle RAPIERs.

3: Switch RAPIER mode.

4: Toggle intakes.

5: Set trim to input (only if Enhanced Trim is installed).

6: Reduce flap deflection.

7: Increase flap deflection.

8: Open cargo bay and deploy solar panels.

9: Trigger spoilers.

0: Toggle Vernors.

Craft file available at https://www.dropbox.com/s/woyrc5azsf4y12y/Kerbodyne%20Ranger.craft?dl=0

Designed for FAR. Requires Spaceplane Plus. Kerbal Attachment System or some other strutting solution highly recommended if cargo is to be returned to atmosphere.

[Wanderfound]

Wanderfound, you have a gift for making planes. Is there any chance you could do a small FAR-centric tutorial for those of us who have gotten past the basics (CoL/CoM, gross wing configurations, etc.) but who still haven't quite 'gotten it'? I'm thinking of things like the FAR stability derivatives and broad information on how different configurations affect them, CoM stabilizing tricks, and the like. It would be very greatly appreciated.

EDIT: Answer moved to post #3

Edited September 26, 2014 by Wanderfound

[Wingblaze]

The Kerbodyne Ranger, your all-in-one let's-explore-the-universe package. Combined air-breathing nuclear propulsion allows extreme fuel efficiency in both orbit and atmosphere. This efficiency is put to good use in delivering a custom-fitted planetary science lander, ready to biome-hop its way across Minmus or the Mun.

Jump in and go; the solar system awaits.

What a lovely looking bit of work - can't wait to try it out! So this can obviously go to the Mun/Minmus from the runway - with or without an LKO refuel?

Can it get to, say, Duna/Eve? I'm assuming the lander couldn't handle Eve without parachutes or some such.

Does it fly like a Dairyman where you just pitch up to say 15 degrees and stay there, or more like the other planes where you level off at 20km and get up to mach 4.5 or so?