Resources and how could they be more interesting ?

[Justin Kerbice]

Hi everyone,

first of all, I expect this to be and stay a friendly debate and not any kind of hot burning discussion which looks like a fight. IT is not also any kind of implicit criticisms of existing resources mod.

We have now quite some mods (Kethane, EPL and Karbonite, maybe more) creating a new area in the sandbox by scanning, mining and converting resources in KSP, but they have all the same "huge" issue: the resources are available everywhere, have no value on their own, and at the end, they is no good/strong motivation to do all the processing of gathering them except kind of role play.

The common territory of all great resource games is:

-resources are more or less rare and not renewable or at a very slow rate,

-resources are valuable,

-resources are useful (more than that in fact, they can/have to be used to build buildings and vehicles/units),

-resources are completely part of the game (remove them... nothing left almost, except a crazy war game in which you can create as much as units as you want )

Examples: Command & Conquer (or I should write Dune 2, as this one comes first, C&C copy it !) RTS clones like Starcraft, KKND, Dawn of War, ... , Age of everything (empires and the followers I don't remember, ... ), Dominium, Populous, Powermonger (old game on Amiga/Atari ST and old 3-486), Full Metal Planet (older french board game adapted on computers), Westward series, Startopia (in its own way), and many others.

The "dark side" of all of them is war, there is opponents doing the same thing and gathering resources to fight you to gather more resources to fight... who ? Til a game over appears in the face of the winner/looser.

I really would like to have in KSP a more good resource system, more useful, more valuable and at the end: more interesting to find and mine.

I'm aware it will need a lot more work than "just" a resource (or many), some scanning devices, drills, tanks, converters. I don't even know if it would be possible to create such a new gameplay that can completely change the way the game is played.

What I know is contracts and money could have been added by a plug-in before Squad release the 0.24, as plug-in like FAR/NEAR completely change a feature/flaw which is probably deep inside the game engine core, and it's work. Contracts needs "only" an API to define and check various conditions (altitude, speed < or >, part X, body Y, landed, flying, ...).

Making a resource mandatory could be added in a similar way (yet to define I admit). It's obviously not a one-people easy job and need probably a team of people which could even evolve (people come and go with time) to keep it alive in a better way than an open mod every one is invited to contribute to (like Karbonite, but KSP modders are not really used to this).

But, for now, I don't see why I would spend hundreds of hours to set up a mining base far away for a resource I don't even need (any resource converted into standard KSP propellant such LF), or which can be found everywhere (Karbonite through ORS).

Regarding these serious issues, it is fully understandable Squad doesn't want to add resources in game this way, as the only way to "force" players would be boring contracts (mine here, mine there => awesome ! And so what ? ).

I have not (yet) the amazing idea which can make this happen and one way to achieve this could be:

- all fuel tanks start empty (MM config to nullify RESOURCE block of each parts for LF/Ox/Monop/Xenon, disable tweakable)

- we have to start with mining rovers with empty tanks, find resources/raw materials spots, mine, harvest, retrieve them

- fill a fuel deposit/storage pool in KSC (a big global storage point for all resources gathered anywhere, could be a new building on its own: fuel storage facility, a bit farer than other buildings, or not, kerbal's way )

- all "fuels" could also be bought somewhere (to define, not in the beginning), one to <n> companies, offering different prices at different times.

The path to follow would be (to summarize):

- find resource near KSC,

- gather them

- build vehicles which can go further and faster

- find better spots

- gather more fuel

- build better vehicles

- ...

- and don't forget the space program

KSC -> surrounding areas -> other continents -> air & space -> close bodies (Mun first obviously) -> far bodies ...

This in a parallel line to science, ie: scaning/mining/storing/shipping resources lead to improvements to go faster, do it cheaper, and more efficiently.

There could be new technologies that allow more efficient designs, a better resources usage, use of new resources. Example: starting with "the elephant in a porcelain shop" engine (a big brutal and thirsty engine), improve consumption, thrust, ... going into alternative system like ION Drive or nuclear propulsion, then Electro-magnetic or other crazy thing that's cost less to go farer and faster.

Of course this sounds quite tough for beginners, so there could be a mode to have a few units of each fuel available right away (10000 to 1000000 units of the most used ones, monop and xenon are not used as much as Ox/LF so 10000 Xenon and 5000 monop may be enough), EC is not relevant here, I mean it's available in the beginning as well as at least one solar panel (OX-STAT).

We could have a difficulty parameters settings window with starting amount of resources and some other things + presets (easy/medium/hard/insane/Jeb's mode), the hardest offer almost no room to wasting resources, so launching tons of rockets everywhere just for fun may lead to loose all available fuels in any of their form (raw solid materials, liquid need to be refined, ...) until resource are renewed or... a providential asteroids come into play (A way to make them more interesting too, a lottery to find a lot's of resources or... nothing).

To conclude this quite long post, I have really enjoyed resources oriented games, and I believe it could not be just a nostalgia feeling and adding this to KSP, in a good way, a new way to play our game and to be driven by something more than just GTA & clones missions (=contracts), allowing players to improve one area and follow a given path: science as a priority or resources or something else.

Thank you for reading .

[nli2work]

as long as sandbox mode stays.

The game would need better tech and larger scope for the kind of resource play (restriction) you are suggesting. No way I would spend all that extra effort just so I can get to Jool with 1968 tech. If KSP had expanded tech like KSPI; and multiple solar systems, I might consider it.

Edited August 17, 2014 by nli2work

[baijuncheng]

I don't really like the idea of having to collect fuel before I can even launch one rocket. It sounds like a tedious minigame that hardly anybody would want to play. Resources in RTS games serve not only as a currency, but a means of getting the players to explore the map, find the resources, harvest them and defend them. It brings more action to the game, as the players are fighting over who can have what. Without them, it's just a case of click click click until you have a massive army and then go and find the opposing player.

Here, I think it would have the opposite effect. The action in this game is sending stuff into space. If I had to go out and find 20,000 gallons of fuel before I could launch my rocket I think it would feel like those F2P games where you have to grind to do everything. I'm all for having resources which can be mined and converted to fuel, but on Kerbin there should be other industries providing my fuel.

[Justin Kerbice]

Good point baijuncheng, that's why I add options/modes/choices.

Some people what to play it hard and tough, these people would be happy, I guess, to have to rely on themselves only to get the job done, some others want to play the "human way" (which I could call also, "we"re not alone"), and could rely on some companies to be paid to do the job for them, finally some other want to have some resources but also messing around with rockets and crash everywhere, and they could do it too.

As long as the mod (not mine, it's just an idea), is player-oriented and not other thing, it has to let players to choose how they want to play. That's your answer nil2work .

[RoverDude]

Good point baijuncheng, that's why I add options/modes/choices.

Some people what to play it hard and tough, these people would be happy, I guess, to have to rely on themselves only to get the job done, some others want to play the "human way" (which I could call also, "we"re not alone"), and could rely on some companies to be paid to do the job for them, finally some other want to have some resources but also messing around with rockets and crash everywhere, and they could do it too.

As long as the mod (not mine, it's just an idea), is player-oriented and not other thing, it has to let players to choose how they want to play. That's your answer nil2work .

So given this is toggleable, etc. how does this vary from what we have today? Well, other than having tanks start empty... Meaning, if I just decide to impose a hard mode where I manually fill up my tanks (already doable), what has actually changed from a gameplay standpoint? i.e. what element are we adding here? What mechanic is missing? What makes this more/less 'fun'?

[Justin Kerbice]

So given this is toggleable, etc. how does this vary from what we have today? Well, other than having tanks start empty... Meaning, if I just decide to impose a hard mode where I manually fill up my tanks (already doable), what has actually changed from a gameplay standpoint? i.e. what element are we adding here? What mechanic is missing? What makes this more/less 'fun'?

mmm... looks like giving the choice is not a so good idea after all, maybe doing it like a "total conversion", like Quake Rally was, may be better and for those who want their sandbox(es), or stock science/contracts, they just have to play without it as other resources mods are there already.

[Captain_Brian]

Honestly I see this as just more work for the player, but not necessarily more fun. Let's look at different types of resources and how they can be interesting/fun:

ElectricCharge

• Varied ways of collecting.
  
• Solar panels bring interesting design decisions on their locations, and risks due to lack of sunlight or gforces destroying them.
  
• Solar panels bring player interaction due to having to deploy them and remember to retract at certain times.
  
• Multiple systems rely on the resource, and thus have interesting consequences when the resource is depleted.
  

Fuel

• Basis for all design decisions in rocketry. Very interesting design decisions due to calculations needed to get to different planets, the use of staging, and payload/mission considerations
  
• Fuel routing/staging adds another layer in the complexity and gameplay options of rocket design. Interesting and fun.
  
• Oxidizer is a bit pointless from a game play standpoint. Arguably doesn't need to be represented and could be abstracted due to it always being tied to fuel usage. The increased realism is fun in its own way though.
  

Monopropellant

• Fuel with a routing independent design, which allows for different rocket designs than Fuel based propulsion.
  
• Adds additional gameplay options due to it being an emergency alternative to Fuel.
  
• Adds a different control option in the form of thruster control.
  
• By adding a new control type, this resource also removes that control if the fuel is exhausted, adding a type of risk and mission planning that is fun for the player.
  

Mods

==============================================

Now onto the systems mods have introduced:

Life Support

• Basically boils down to having to haul more tonnage\equipment\supplies for all your missions.
  
• Does not (to my knowledge) add any variety to the actual gameplay. Seem to all boil down to additional resources that must be hauled along for the mission.
  
• Some do add complex systems of interdependency, (CO2 generation, waste disposal, etc) except that at the end of the day it boils down to needing additional tonnage without actually adding interesting design considerations.
  
• Add limitations to missions, due to a lack of resources/time. (Kerbals die from starvation trying to do long orbits around the sun.)
  

Alternate Fuels (Karbonite/Kethane)

• Adds a certain amount of gameplay\fun due to being able to scan and hunt for new resources.
  
• Extends mission times due to finding\refining the fuels.
  
• Adds\promotes a basebuilding dynamic for mining the resources.
  
• At the end of the day, not particularly "interesting" due to a relative lack of scarcity. Resources are usually pretty abundant in these mods, and even without the mods you could just park giant fuel rockets at different areas of the solar system for refueling.
  

How can we improve this?

========================================

Well, lets look at the most fun systems in existence for KSP, the STOCK ones. They seem to be the most fun because they allow for interesting random situations, in-mission problem-solving, and design considerations for the player. That is what we need more of, and that is what all the current resource mods lack.

Just spit-balling here, maybe this would help make resource mods more interesting and fun:

Resource mods

• Add some randomization that can help create interesting situations for the player. Perhaps a random chance of hitting gas pockets, causing an explosion at the point of drilling? Could have different magnitudes such as a small one that just tips over the craft or a large one that blows a chunk out of it. This could promote design considerations for the player to design a more explosion resistant drilling craft.
  

• Add more incentive to gather the new resources (kethane\karbonite). Fuel is great and all, but in the end a trip to the gas station isn't particularly fun or interesting. Perhaps have it be a better fuel than the stock type, make it worth the work the player has to do to get it. Perhaps it allows for gameplay that wouldn't otherwise be possible. (Like a specialized but rare fuel that allows for warp travel or near light travel or something. Make the player have to hunt for it, but make the payoff be fun and worth it.)
  

• Add scarcity without making it a pain for players to gather resources. If the fuel is everywhere then it's too easy, if it is extremely hard to get to then it kinda defeats the purpose of the mod. Maybe a commonly found but low efficiency fuel, and a rare but extremely efficient fuel.
  

• Add interesting player interaction and design considerations. Perhaps the fuel must be maintained by a device that uses electrical current, and if the current is lost than the fuel tanks have a likelihood of becoming unstable and exploding.
  

• Perhaps allow the fuel to be sold for a lot of money in order to allow bases to be used for generating profits in career mode.
  

Life Support

• Add life support systems only if they are going to effect gameplay in interesting ways. Perhaps instead of just dying when starved, kerbals just go insane and act erratically until they get fed. You could have insanity chance based on bravery stat.
  

• Add random events and interesting ways for players to deal with them. Lets be honest, the main reason everyone loves the idea of life support mods are because of Apollo 13. If there isn't a way to do "failure is not an option" and mcguiver your way out of something, then it just isn't nearly as interesting. Perhaps add ways to scrap\dismantle certain systems to get others working? Maybe the success chance is dependent on the stupidity stat.
  

[Peppe]

...

Life Support

• Add life support systems only if they are going to effect gameplay in interesting ways. Perhaps instead of just dying when starved, kerbals just go insane and act erratically until they get fed. You could have insanity chance based on bravery stat.
  

• Add random events and interesting ways for players to deal with them. Lets be honest, the main reason everyone loves the idea of life support mods are because of Apollo 13. If there isn't a way to do "failure is not an option" and mcguiver your way out of something, then it just isn't nearly as interesting. Perhaps add ways to scrap\dismantle certain systems to get others working? Maybe the success chance is dependent on the stupidity stat.
  

This sounds more like the part failure mod, http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/85798-0-24-1-Kerbal-Mechanics-Part-Failures-and-Repairs-v0-4-Help-Me-Balance! . I have not tried it yet, but would interesting if it's 'rocket parts' used for repair could use RoverDudes's repair/maintenance system.

To balance resource systems you would probably need to make the fuel cost on kerbin super high and not have any of the resource available on kerbin. Then the player's incentive to seek out and produce their own fuel is to reduce their mission cost.

[Clockwork_werewolf]

Add life support systems only if they are going to effect gameplay in interesting ways. Perhaps instead of just dying when starved, Kerbals just go insane and act erratically until they get fed. You could have insanity chance based on bravery stat.

Trying to work on it. Although Madness is related to number of Kerbals and spare space they have and does just kill them (at the moment). You could see this as extra weight but in that sense extra engines and fuel to get to Duna are just extra weight. Also I'm going to set Kerbal based science as much more worthwhile. Landing 10 probes on the Mun and Minmus shouldn't get you all the tech but sending a Kerbal should be worth the effort of the extra life support.

[impyre]

I like the idea of adding minerals/metals/resources that are unique to each planet (each planet could have its own), and obtaining samples of these would be needed to "discover" them and their special properties, thus allowing new technologies to be researched (and new parts!). The catch is that those new parts require the material that unlocked them in their construction. This would also give you a reason to visit all the planets (besides to just go look at them) since science usually doesn't last very long.

[Justin Kerbice]

I think life support and failures are seriously out of scope of my initial idea, here it just about resources.

@impyre: that's good, I like it . I can imagine what it will be to unlock new tech tree branch with amazing technology:

using karbonite as a working example, it may exists only on body B, so discover it (by an old meteorite crash site on Kerbin, or by discovering some kind of anomaly on B by chance), research it may unveil crazy engines nil2work and others have made.

[Volcanix]

Do you mean something like this?

I discovered that series a while ago and I'm a bit disappointed because he doesn't bring out new episodes really often. But, looking at the concept itself, just having a bit of fuel at the beginning with your kethane scanner and then being completely dependent on your drills and transporters? Was that what you mean? Or just the same thing with Karbonite?

I bet it would be possible to create a save game for this, at least with the modification that liquid fuel tanks are empty from the beginning but your first ship can be fueled or something like that.

I like the idea! Subscribed

[Justin Kerbice]

@Volcanix: more or less, watch the video quickly, I'm not sure if the gameplay was really modified but yes, I really means start with the bare minimum to start the "campaign", evolving quite slowly, having to get resources, going further every time, ...

[Volcanix]

I've got some free time today. Should I make a save game with Kethane and maybe TAC life-support where I set up a couple of tank rovers or should I build some kethane deposit tanks with converter units and provide the craft file?

If so, should with which mods, do you have some ideas what the design should come with?

[southernrock]

Like another member mentioned, the only real way to make resources 'fun' for a majority of other players is to have special fuels/resources on other planets that have to be gathered to have access to certain technologies on the tech tree, but also make the resources a non requirement to 'finish' a line of the tech tree. Have the tree, well, branch out into other space ventures, warp drives etc. You want to have warp drives, cool, you unlocked the parts, but now you need to go to the mun and mine for x resource so you can power it. You should still be able to travel to other places with stock, but obviously will take huge amounts of DV (like another solar system) Warp drives would be the end game and you should have to have a solid resource system to support it.

[Justin Kerbice]

@Volcanix: good to see your enthusiasm on this but it doesn't matter I might say as it needs a proper architecture, at least the foundation of it, to be significant. With the mods available now, it would be pointless.

@southernrock: the whole concept of a "completion" is also pointless IMHO. It is and stay a sandbox game, you don't have to follow the whole line to complete a campaign then... be boring and move on ?

I think it's better to keep the sandbox style, let people do whatever they want with what they have (unlocked at some point), perhaps aside this, a full set of scenarii can be made, using scenario feature (but it would need a lot of them, between 50 and 100 I guess to cover everything).

@to everyone: I just launch the idea, I don't own it, don't want to be kind of team leader or a guide or a guru, if some people find it good and want to work on it, fine, if no one care, it's fine too.

As I wrote in the 1st post, it's definitely NOT a single people job, or it need someone who be fuelled over the maximum with energy drink .

[southernrock]

[quote name=

@southernrock: the whole concept of a "completion" is also pointless IMHO. It is and stay a sandbox game' date=' you don't have to follow the whole line to complete a campaign then... be boring and move on ?

I think it's better to keep the sandbox style, let people do whatever they want with what they have (unlocked at some point), perhaps aside this, a full set of scenarii can be made, using scenario feature (but it would need a lot of them, between 50 and 100 I guess to cover everything).

@to everyone: I just launch the idea, I don't own it, don't want to be kind of team leader or a guide or a guru, if some people find it good and want to work on it, fine, if no one care, it's fine too.

As I wrote in the 1st post, it's definitely NOT a single people job, or it need someone who be fuelled over the maximum with energy drink .

[Volcanix]

I actually love having the option to go mine another planet, and personally, having a tech tree limb that one can take to access that to reach an endgame of warp drive or something, would be awesome. That is kind of the point of career mode isnt it? To build a working space program that explores the solar system, and that would include researching future technologies. Again, having that option would be a blast, and that is why I really am enjoying the Interstellar mod. So bascially what I am saying, Add Interstellar and make it so you have to also create a resource system to fuel Interstellar. Some may think its boring and some might bypass that option altogether in the career line. But again, options are key and personally would love to have something like this in the stock game.

@Justin Kerbice & southern rock

Maybe, if you got time, we could get together via a Skype group or something like that and start working on that? I think I've seen a mod which allows to redesign the tech tree and I'm sure some people who are interested can help. I could test out the stuff, and maybe do some modeling if blender works on mac. *googles it*

Tell me if you are interested, I love the idea.

[southernrock]

@Justin Kerbice & southern rock

Maybe, if you got time, we could get together via a Skype group or something like that and start working on that? I think I've seen a mod which allows to redesign the tech tree and I'm sure some people who are interested can help. I could test out the stuff, and maybe do some modeling if blender works on mac. *googles it*

Tell me if you are interested, I love the idea.

Not really sure how I could help but would love to try. Starting from scratch would be a huge undertaking and kind of unnecessary since a great foundation is already set with Interplanetary and Karbonite. Is their a way to merge 2 mods and work with the developers from Interplanetary and Karbonite?

[Volcanix]

Not really sure how I could help but would love to try. Starting from scratch would be a huge undertaking and kind of unnecessary since a great foundation is already set with Interplanetary and Karbonite. Is their a way to merge 2 mods and work with the developers from Interplanetary and Karbonite?

Hmmm... Don't really know. I think we must first work out a concept and some designs to at least get some attention. I tried installing Karbonite today, sadly, I ended up having a flashing screen in KSP...

And starting from scratch is kind of an achievement at least that's how I think about it ^-^

We should work out a concept somewhere. The question is where <.< Have you got an idea for a concept or where to work it out?

[southernrock]

Hmmm... Don't really know. I think we must first work out a concept and some designs to at least get some attention. I tried installing Karbonite today, sadly, I ended up having a flashing screen in KSP...

And starting from scratch is kind of an achievement at least that's how I think about it ^-^

We should work out a concept somewhere. The question is where <.< Have you got an idea for a concept or where to work it out?

It isnt so much that making one from scratch wouldnt be an achievement, its about simplicity to the rest of the users. The user base doesnt need 10 different resource mods and 10 different Interplanetary mods, so working with what we have would make things much easier for the community to adopt. Thats my .02 anyways lol. As far as working on a concept, I can put together a document and have it ready by this weekend. We can then go over it together (skype or whatever) and then reach out and try to get some support, either from the mod authors of the other 2 mods or other individuals, which ever route we decide. Sound good? also PM me with your email and we can see what each others strenghts and weakness's are if you dont mind.

[Volcanix]

It isnt so much that making one from scratch wouldnt be an achievement, its about simplicity to the rest of the users. The user base doesnt need 10 different resource mods and 10 different Interplanetary mods, so working with what we have would make things much easier for the community to adopt. Thats my .02 anyways lol. As far as working on a concept, I can put together a document and have it ready by this weekend. We can then go over it together (skype or whatever) and then reach out and try to get some support, either from the mod authors of the other 2 mods or other individuals, which ever route we decide. Sound good? also PM me with your email and we can see what each others strenghts and weakness's are if you dont mind.

Mhh... Yeah.. I think wie should await Justin Kerbice's answer cause he already worked out a pretty good concept (first post) I'm sure he can put that together somewhere. I hope to hear from him^^

[Justin Kerbice]

I have wrote before, I just create the spark here, and luckily, there was a thin trail of gun powder, just hope it leads to a nearby ammunition supplies to create a huge fireworks .

Unfortunately, as this is what a community is, there is a chance to get 15 different and similar resources mods because one people here want a blue engine whereas the other like red engine paint, some want one single resource we can find everywhere, some want one or more resources per body, some want direct usage of them, some want conversion into stock propellant first, ...

Karbonite could be use as a base, as Roverdude claim it is fully open (but I'm not sure contribution was as much open as the mod itself, it worth check this).

Anyway, this is how I see the work needed to get it:

a - the resources definition (may or may not use the standard some people try to establish): name, density, way to use it, where to find them

this is some KSP related job (creating cfg files) and most importantly think and design job or paper job aside

- the location maps (paper work again)

- a working system to put resources on bodies (ORS ? something new), map made using point 2 (even as a mere draft)

- a resource workflow (scanning, drilling, storing, converting, using devices definition)

b - meanwhile, the gameplay modification part have to be defined, designed and done through one or more plug-in

=> new game mode, difficulty level settings, base game status (empty fuel tanks, parts available), tech tree (new nodes, all parts cfg to update, ...)

This is the biggest part of the whole thing as it has never been done before and it need a lot of exploration under the hood of KSP itself.

c - then the "easy" part:

creating new parts for each function needed (there is plenty example of them)

d - and finally the less than easy and quite hard: packaging, with a full documentation, tutorial(s), etc

To make a long story short, all of this will be pointless until there is a working gameplay modification (b above) AND a way to put <n> resources where we want them to be on a given body (density map or discrete spots map or whatever).

A quick note on existing mod:

Karbonite, for what I have understand is "just" a Kethane clone, because Kethane's license is far too restrictive (see "Kethane plus" issue), so no new concept, just a different way to make these concepts alive.

Here is a proposal for some new concepts and also a new modding concept: it would be no longer a 1 people/team work, but a shared work without any kind of "polutting onwership" on the material produced (ie: people who want to be involved here have to accept to fully give away their beloved work and let others working on them even in a different/unwanted way). Kind of what was more or less achieved with open source software, it's just amazing to see some old tool from the 70-80s still being working and updated these days like tar, gzip, vi, cron, ... look at the manpage copyright date, it's just crazy !

[KerbMav]

In my current save (still .23.5 ...) I use Kethane as the only usable fuel for the LV-N, but it is still convertable into the stock fuels. I learned a bit about fuel usage - as I had to adept the volume and masses of Kethane and its tanks to be equal to what stock LF/O would give in terms of dV - but ultimately it was not as much fun as I expected, although the thought of having more than four different fuels and one/some special ressources (especially for the LV-N) still dances around my brain cells. So I will just drop some of it in here.

I would imagine having kerosene for jet engines, LF/O for rockets and being hydrogen and oxygen, monopropellant being whatever it wants to be, and then some special fuels for ion engines and LV-Ns.

Hydrogen and oxygen could be found in various places and are readily available on Kerbin/in VAB, as would kerosene.

LV-Ns might come in two variants, one using hydrogen and a fissionable element. Kerbin could be bare of any usable uranium or similar stuff, so before one could use the LV-N the element would have to be found and researched at KSC.

The other more powerful variant could replacing hydrogen with something more efficient but much rarer/more exotic, being lighter/denser/having higher ISP - although I am not sure it would make any sense, as hydrogen is the lightest element around, but maybe the oceans of Eve could contain some special soup of the day?

Ion engines might use an element only found on bodies without an atmosphere and in larger concentrations the closer the body orbits to Kerbol.

Again different elements could be used for varying effects.

Life support could be fiddled in by collectors/converters for water and breathable air, but could be completely optional/an addon to a mod.

In the end the game/mod would need more different/flexible/tweakable tanks. But the player could still do things without having to mine anything first. Everything mined and refined only opens up new options for more TWR/ISP/dV etc.

For playability scanning, mining and converting would have to work "offline", meaning without the base being the active vessel.

Additionally mining could produce materials to build bases/crafts just like Extraplanetary Launchpads does, and it also could produce valuable minerals to sell/recover on Kerbin - the last part only being useful if the economy system gets a bit more challenging and earning money a bit more difficult.

[southernrock]

I'm on mobile, so responding to every point would be difficult... It may just be me, but it seems like you are wanting to make this a lot more difficult than it had to be. Why try to create something from scratch when we can build on what's there? Also, I agree, people will want 50 different things, and to be clear, what route do you intend to go with these resources, more realistic, or more, ehh I guess imaginative. If you want more realistic, then yes that would be way more involved. If the other route, we can build and refine on 2 popular mods already in use. I also see resources as a late game added objective instead of a have to thing like C&C or any other rts. This is solely my .02 and may be completely different than what direction you where leaning to, so bear that in mind and no disrespect on my end. Resources shouldn't be a grind, you shouldn't have to start the game and have to start up an oil rig to process your jet fuel...no thanks. Resources as an objective should be for rare fuels for end game travels (career mode) or future tech (sandbox). Again, if you want more realistic, you would probably need to start from scratch, if you want to go the other route, we already have a very nice foundation to build from.