Devnote Tuesdays: The "Can't Spell Kerbal without K" Edition

[nli2work]

They might need some rework, but i'm not sure why they would need to be scrapped.

Depends on how much rework I suppose. I hope it's less than rebuilding them.

[Aethon]

Wow the hype train has bounced from thread to thread the last 'couple of days. Hard to keep track. I kinda like having the train warm up while I still have tons of stuff left to do in .24.2.

This all sound so cool. I'll probably never go through this amazing process again in my life. The slow revelation of a game that just gets better and better. Well done everyone.

From what I've read, it doesn't seem like we're talking about a normal version progression here. Sounds more like the next version might be KSP .35 ???

Anyway callin' it. Next version will be closer to 1 than .25.

[Temeter]

Depends on how much rework I suppose. I hope it's less than rebuilding them.

The cockpits are afaik already fitted to the part's proportions (if that even plays a role), so i'd assume their model itself should be fine for the most part.

That said, i'm ofc only speculating, that stuff heavily depends on the implementation. The Devs generally seem to look out for changes that might break mods.

[sarbian]

Well the Beta of Unity 4.6 with the GUI overhaul was announced for download at Unite

Is this a step up, down, sideways from the ezGUI?

Since it's the ezGUI dev who work on that update it's likely to be a step up. He wrote a long post about that somewhere, but I won't search that from my holiday spot and its 880kb/s connection

[Wjolcz]

Oh, I also wrapped up a deal with Porkjet to add a modified version of Spaceplane Plus to the base game.

And THAT is something I could sacrifice all my planes and even the whole career save for, if I had to.

This is what I like about SQUAD. They really listen to the community and the suggestions we make.

Compared to War Thunder forums and Gaijin's policy of censorship, what KSP Devs do is a real blessing.

[1of6Billion]

Someone has to say it, so it may as well be me. I don't do planes, so I don't care for Spaceplanesplus. Too bad it's not KAS.

[Linear]

Someone has to say it, so it may as well be me. I don't do planes, so I don't care for Spaceplanesplus. Too bad it's not KAS.

The past 3/4 updates have had barely anything interesting to advanced players, ARM being seperate, but only just.

[Alewx]

<p><span><strong>Anthony (Rowsdower):</strong>... That said, I spent a good deal of time over the last week just scanning reactions, talking things through on our end and created a survey for you to fill out on what you’d like to see, any changes that should be made, so on and so forth. Now, I’d planned to have it ready for you today, but it’s still undergoing edits and approvals so while it’s not here yet, expect it soon. ... </span></p>

For me that was the most important part of the devnote.

Can you tell us anymore about it, got no approval?

[Semmel]

That is the first plausible suggestion I have heard this entire thread.

And it would be awesome.

I agree, it fits best to the information we have.

* Areodynamics is an existing feature, it is not going to be worked on until the game is feature complete

* Multiplayer does not require lots of modeling, given SQUADs approach in the past, they would not sink tons of FTEs into modeling if it wouldnt be required.

* Incraft IVA movement is a non-existing feaure. It fits crew transfer without EVA. It requires a lot of modeling.

When comparing the three options, my bet would be on the incraft IVA. But when including the fourth option "none of the above", I would go for that since SQUAD is quite creative and guessing their intentions is not always successful..

Semmel

[Rune]

I have no clue on the Mk3 cargo bays, but from the "here's something hugo made" we know those are the new Mk3, and Hugo talked about the Mk1 Series in devnotes and somebody found a picture of a revamped Mk1 Cockpit. (sorry I don't know where it is for sure but it looked nice, fit in well with the new Mk3)

Rune, I know pretty much for a fact that there are more Mk3 parts. Rowsdower answered a different question of mine by saying Hugos cockpit and I think Mk3 tank was cut from a larger picture of parts. Plus, if there are Mk2 parts and cargo bays coming out, wouldn't it make sense to have Mk3 versions? I've seen what you can do with Mk3 sized parts and I'd love an Mk3 bay too. I feel safe assuming there is an Mk3 bay but like usual, don't quote me on that .

Thanks for the replies! I hadn't heard about the MkI and investigating further, yeah, it makes all the sense in the world that cargo bays of all sizes would be included (short of like rover wheels: the spacecraft repository was full of rovers before they appeared as an official feature, and lately the amount of stock cargo bays has multiplied!). And it would be really neat to bundle that update with an aerodynamics update, but the comment by Maxmaps about the new feature "not being in any mod that they know of" seems to make that impossible (FAR). Ditto for resources or a ton other things.

I agree, it fits best to the information we have.

* Areodynamics is an existing feature, it is not going to be worked on until the game is feature complete

* Multiplayer does not require lots of modeling, given SQUADs approach in the past, they would not sink tons of FTEs into modeling if it wouldnt be required.

* Incraft IVA movement is a non-existing feaure. It fits crew transfer without EVA. It requires a lot of modeling.

When comparing the three options, my bet would be on the incraft IVA. But when including the fourth option "none of the above", I would go for that since SQUAD is quite creative and guessing their intentions is not always successful..

Semmel

Yup, it does fit indeed. I don't yet know HOW it fits, or how it would work or what it adds to the game, but OTOH, every other thing squad has surprised me with, I've loved. And the things they haven't surprised me with? Those were mods I was already using that got added into the game like rovers or the subassembly loader. I can wait for the rest of those (KAS, Kethane, Ed Estensions, dock alignment if it doesn't make it now, etc), long time till 1.0 still! KSP is going to be HUGE by that time, and incredibly polished.

Rune. With all this analysis and playtesting, it better be!

[CodatheSpaceFox]

Someone has to say it, so it may as well be me. I don't do planes, so I don't care for Spaceplanesplus. Too bad it's not KAS.

I'm not going to be the one who's going to say that KAS can not, and will not ever have a chance of becoming part of the official game, but I will say that odds speak pretty highly against it, especially since with KSP being mod friendly, it'd make little sense to me at least for them to push KAS into the game... yet.

I will say this though, if you honestly can't think of one thing you'd want to do with any of the parts from Spaceplanesplus. Then maybe you should keep your opinion to practice, and just let your creativity flow elsewhere.

Meanwhile, I have another starship-amajig to try and land on something, because a vertical suicide burn on a length built VTOL spaceplane always leaves a tingle up my spine and some tension between my teeth, and there's nothing funnier than watching your fourth failed landing attempt do the typical broken neck flop.

[Starwhip]

Oh, wait, hold on...

Miguel (Maxmaps): Organizing stuff for adding new sounds and overall effects to the game. Looking great so far. Also, our art team is currently sequestered in what is the largest 3D asset endeavor that we have overtaken so far. So much so you won’t see it in .25, so forgive them if they’re not really sharing a lot of info on the matter. We are talking dozens of high quality models that must be made. Oh, I also wrapped up a deal with Porkjet to add a modified version of Spaceplane Plus to the base game. This mod not only fits the aesthetic of the game perfectly but tackles parts that needed to be remade and did so in the best way possible.

Soo... Crew IVA movement (maybe), but not in .25?

[1of6Billion]

..snip..

I will say this though, if you honestly can't think of one thing you'd want to do with any of the parts from Spaceplanesplus. Then maybe you should keep your opinion to practice, and just let your creativity flow elsewhere.

..snip..

Wait!?, wut!!?!!? I am not sure I am getting this right. Are you telling me to shut up and go away?

[CptRichardson]

Kolonization, maybe?

[Alshain]

Wait!?, wut!!?!!? I am not sure I am getting this right. Are you telling me to shut up and go away?

I don't think he was intending to be that harsh. I think what he meant was there is plenty else to do in KSP so if you don't like planes, go do something else. The truth is Rocket builders got v0.23.5 with a bunch of new parts, while all plane builders have gotten is the RAPIER. Plane builders want a turn to get new stuff and it sounds like that will be 0.25. Fortunately for me, I'm in both camps, I like both sides of the coin.

[1of6Billion]

I don't think he was intending to be that harsh. I think what he meant was there is plenty else to do in KSP so if you don't like planes, go do something else. The truth is Rocket builders got v0.23.5 with a bunch of new parts, while all plane builders have gotten is the RAPIER. Plane builders want a turn to get new stuff and it sounds like that will be 0.25. Fortunately for me, I'm in both camps, I like both sides of the coin.

Let's hope he wasn't

True, the plane parts have not had any development since what? 0.13? They are "due" for some upgrades

There are tons of mods *I* would have been more enthusiastic about. Let's keep it at that.

[r4pt0r]

yeah i think he just meant that if you cant find purpose for any of a dozen+ new parts, perhaps you should utilize your creative juices elsewere. perhaps youre burned out on ksp a little. I paint occasionally.

[Robotengineer]

I agree, it fits best to the information we have.

* Areodynamics is an existing feature, it is not going to be worked on until the game is feature complete

* Multiplayer does not require lots of modeling, given SQUADs approach in the past, they would not sink tons of FTEs into modeling if it wouldnt be required.

* Incraft IVA movement is a non-existing feaure. It fits crew transfer without EVA. It requires a lot of modeling.

When comparing the three options, my bet would be on the incraft IVA. But when including the fourth option "none of the above", I would go for that since SQUAD is quite creative and guessing their intentions is not always successful..

Semmel

I would expand on this some. If not in craft IVA perhaps these?

*Current planets redo/improvement, higher quality.

*Stock Environmental Visual Enhancements. (Clouds, city lights, etc.)

*New planets, GP2, etc.

*Complete stock parts do over. (Unlikely IMO)

Also, I've been playing around with SP+ and the IVA's without RPM are not very useful, nor as aesthetically pleasing as the RPM ones. Are they going to redo IVA instruments?

[KerbMav]

.

Harvester said, the are developing the largest feature ever - so I think it has to be something new - new planets are not a new feature, reworking 3D anything is not a new feature - I think the internal IVA thing might be what it is - followed by cities on Kerbin, clouds and individual kerbonauts - but the latter has already been spoken of somehow, so ... maybe not?

If it does have to do with the planets, then maybe it is environmental effects - with aerodynamics thrown in?

But Maxmaps talking about the largest 3D asset ... brings me back to IVA again - although I do not like getting excited upon speculations ...

[regex]

Also, I've been playing around with SP+ and the IVA's without RPM are not very useful, nor as aesthetically pleasing as the RPM ones. Are they going to redo IVA instruments?

I highly doubt that since it would go against their "starve the player of information"/"don't scare newbies with information" paradigm.

[blizzy78]

Harvester said, the are developing the largest feature ever - so I think it has to be something new - ...

Uh. He's just talking about the admin facility?

[Romfarer]

Well the Beta of Unity 4.6 with the GUI overhaul was announced for download at Unite

Is this a step up, down, sideways from the ezGUI?

Whatever gui framework we go with, we will always have to extend it with our own implementations for non-standard stuff. Currently there are 3 gui frameworks in action in ksp. The only point atm where EzGUI comes short is in the way it handles text and especially text input. We have overcome the biggest hurdles with text display though. If the Unity GUI overhaul delivers better way of handling text input we will probably start using it as well. That said, just because unity comes out with a new way to handle GUI programming doesn't mean we will re-write the whole GUI code of ksp to match it as it would be an extremely time consuming task.

[Starwhip]

Following the IVA movement idea: buildings now have an inside?

Maybe? Hmm. I don't see much purpose for that.

Telescopes? Nah. That doesn't really work either.

Oh. How about G2? That would certaintly be a massive modeling project: New moons, and a new planet.

But IVA seems most probable.

[JimmyAgent007]

Previously I speculated on the 3D modeling effort being about the KSC becoming fully destructible. Now after thinking and remembering the admin facility I have an addition to my wild speculation.

What if they start new career games without KSC, just Jeb, a junkyard, and a launchpad. That as you earn money, something thats easy for most veterans, you need to build the KSC buildings. Build the tracking center, runway, assembly building, and everything else. It hasnt been done in a mod and would be exactly the kind of thing you need an admin building for. (Maybe an admin shack to start)

[colmo]

Given current speculation, I'll repost something I suggested to the KerbTown peeps:

A few thoughts on KerbTown and KSP as a game. At the moment, it's very much a sandbox mod. You can plop structures anywhere you like, and for those with spawn points, launch from them.

With First Contract, we now have finances. Thus, launching from different locations shouldn't cost the same, just as recovery doesn't return the same funds. This could take the form of a tax on the cost of a craft, or the mass.

Taking this a step further, this can be applied to structures. Rather than being part of the scenery, they become objectives. "If I earn enough funds, I can build that facility at X location" (with costs being many times greater for sites on other bodies than Kerbin). This would give launch and recovery sites in other places, and reduce the drudgery of launching and returning to KSC each time. It's a luxury one must earn, though! Different facilities could give different benefits too.

I realise KerbTown hasn't been developed much in a while, but I'm hopeful those interested and capable of the kind of ideas above will see this. Food for thought, if nothing else?

It's nice to have 'new stuff', but consider what it adds to gameplay. Having some control of where structures are built adds to gameplay choice and style, and opens up multiplayer.

Edited August 21, 2014 by colmo