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[1.12.x] Freight Transport Technologies [v0.6.0]

RoverDude

By RoverDude
in KSP1 Mod Releases

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How do you feel about the VTOL engines? (Vote for both)  

383 members have voted

  1. 1. How do you feel about the VTOL engines? (Vote for both)

    • Propfan: Just right!
      223
    • Propfan: OMG! Overpowered!
      47
    • LFO Thrusters: Too weak
      126
    • LFO Thrusters: Just right!
      164
    • LFO Thrusters: OMG! Overpowered!
      37

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almagnus1

almagnus1

Posted
Posted

I had a thought with the docking ports on the larger ship system:

Why not have two "docking ports" that can be welded together with a Kerbal on EVA, or using a part intended to be mounted on a smaller ship (like one built from the exploration pack parts).

This allows us the freedom to build larger craft in sections, but (assuming the docking nods can be turned to normal stack nodes) skirts around the problem of having these floppy nodes that bring much sadness to the players.

Alternatively, a command that has to be issued from the command module of the ship that enables "locking" mode for the docks, which would do the same thing.

Hopefully it's a feature that may be possible to incorporate into the transport systems, so we can build truly massive ships.

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KESPA

KESPA

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the hover mode with the fans does not seem to be working as it just overheats the fans. Is this supposed to work this way in 1.0? and if so what am i supposed to use as radiators in the atmosphere?

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Admac

Admac

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Posted

A few balance issues in FTT

Hydrogen Tank dry weights look high Compared to NFT's weights (FTT is 31 dry tons for 650k LH2, NFT is 9 tons dry for 550k LH2)

The gold Karborundum tank is a frustratingly pricey 60 million funds, so I assume that's not intended. (Tested in sandbox, it's empty)

I just did up a MM patch for myself on it, but it did seem a bit off.

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Tebryn

Tebryn

Posted
Posted
A few balance issues in FTT

Hydrogen Tank dry weights look high Compared to NFT's weights (FTT is 31 dry tons for 650k LH2, NFT is 9 tons dry for 550k LH2)

The gold Karborundum tank is a frustratingly pricey 60 million funds, so I assume that's not intended. (Tested in sandbox, it's empty)

I just did up a MM patch for myself on it, but it did seem a bit off.

the price on the sphere is 99% from the K+, which since it starts empty, means the tank is only a few thousand. If you manage to fill it and recover it back at the KSC though you are set.

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john73738

john73738

Posted
Posted

Anyone having trouble with the stack attachment nodes on the large cargo rack? Tried on 2 installations (downloaded separately) with no avail. Also I found that it does attach where the cargo pods attach but on one side only. Love all the Umbra mods. Posted this on Github as well.

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MarcAFK

MarcAFK

Posted
Posted (edited)

I've found a few other mods with poorly aligned nodes, and noticed that on the cargo racks too, It looks like the node is slightly too close to the model so you can't attach anything to the rack after it's placed because of part clipping. You can either change the part's properties to allow part clipping, or move the offending nodes around. I did this today with the disaligned nodes of the skydock 250 in the Multipurpose colony modules pack, trial and error took a while for me to get it right.

Speaking of the LH2 tanks, I noticed they seemed excessively heavy so I did some calculations, a 5 meter diameter sphere of liquid hydrogen at the same pressure as the space shuttle's main tanks used would weigh 4.484 tons, that's pretty close to what the tank actually holds, which is good, but, the tanks weighs something like 6 tons, now the space shuttle's tank weighs in at 26.5 tons, length wise 64% of the tank is for LH2, assuming the tank doesn't need to be significantly stronger for hydrogen compared to oxygen (bad assumption but lets just assume for now) that means 17 tons of the tank is for the LH(we're also ignoring the fact that the ends of the tank and intertank are a significant part of the tank's weight so a simple subtraction of 36% of the weight is also wrong, but bear with me), it holds 106 tons of LH2, so the dry percentage is about 16%. The FTT tank however weighs almost 4 times this fraction.. Lastly during the life of the shuttle approximately 10 tons was shaved off the weight of the external tank, so that represents about an extra 40% weight on top of the 16%, a low tech LH2 tank therefore might be approximately 22% dry weight. For comparison most of the liquid tanks in KSP are around 10% dry weight.

So the 75k LH2 tank might weigh between .800 and 1.2 tons.

Edited by MarcAFK
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MarcAFK

MarcAFK

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Posted

I can't be sure about using real world values though, liquid hydrogen is hideously difficult to contain and boils off significantly when stored, the extra mass might include refrigeration and other advanced storage technology that prevents this from occurring. In hydrogen fuelled cars this is an extreme as the tank, cooling systems and safety features can weigh 10 times the actual fuel. But the problem is no matter how efficient your engine is you can't get significant delta-v if your empty tanks are too heavy. However since it seems that people are having trouble making a working rocket using the current values, so I suppose a good rule of thumb is to find a value that works well and stick to it?

I'll do some testing with various weights of tank using a standardised rocket weight, payload and fuel ratios, with different fuels and engines. It may be that the current weight is fine but if I find that a skipper is out performing a nuclear rocket then I'll know there's a problem.

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MarcAFK

MarcAFK

Posted
Posted (edited)

I threw together a test vehicle, a 7.5 ton payload, to that I added a 3 ton engine and enough fuel tanks to reach 48 tons. Which is a 15% payload.

With Liquid fuel/oxidiser and a skipper was about 3500 dV, liquid fuel and an LV-N was about 8700 dV, the current Spherical liquid hydrogen tanks and an LV-N burning liquid hydrogen at 800isp gave me 3200 dV. Lowering the tank weight to about a ton brought the dv back upto 8400, half a ton was about 9200 dV.

It seems that about 15% or less is about the value you need. I'll record the exact details and put it onto github. Btw the tank actually holds 5.3 tons of fuel, my earlier numbers were are a little off, but a tank weight of 1 ton is 15%.

I've pasted my findings as well as suggested values onto the github, my reccomendations are:

Small spherical tank: 64,000 fuel. Dry weight .85 tons. Dry fraction 15.78%

Triple small tank: 192,000 fuel. Dry weight 2.1 tons. Dry fraction 13.19 %

Large spherical tank: 500,000 fuel. Dry weight 4.5 tons. Dry fraction 11.27%

Edited by MarcAFK
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3Dave

3Dave

Posted
Posted

Is this pack missing a few parts from the sample image? or should i try a reinstall? i dont seem to see those landing legs or the honey badger "hull" part (the one that just looks like a octagonal tank in the photos), i have the cargo pods and cargo bay for it though. i'll look through the directory to confirm they're not there.

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goldenpsp

goldenpsp

Posted
Posted
Is this pack missing a few parts from the sample image? or should i try a reinstall? i dont seem to see those landing legs or the honey badger "hull" part (the one that just looks like a octagonal tank in the photos), i have the cargo pods and cargo bay for it though. i'll look through the directory to confirm they're not there.

First, the picture is pretty old. For example the triple octagonal part no longer exists. I can't recall exactly but the heavy duty legs I believe come from Karbonite. Not sure what you mean by the hull part (the cargo bay part?). It is there in my install. Maybe you mean the part with the grey circular part on top right behind the command pod? that is the nuclear reactor and it looks different now.

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MarcAFK

MarcAFK

Posted
Posted (edited)

The weight and capacity of containers needs balancing, a stock ore can weighs 2 tons and carrys 15 tons of ore. A Hexagonal Kontainer is about 4 times the volume but half the weight, and holds 250 tons of metallic ore, and a bit more of Metals. A standard international shipping container like you would see on a truck is very slightly smaller then a Kontainer and weighs only 2.2 tons with a capacity of around 26 tons. I'm thinking that stock ore cans hold about the right amount but maybe are a bit heavy. I'm thinking a 100-200 ton max capacity is probably good, for comparison most other resources the Kontainers hold weigh less than 100 tons.

I've been thinking about this and aren't sure what to make of the numbers, the maximum weight isn't really excessive, but I think the different resource types could be a little better balanced.

EDIT: I'm an idiot, stock capacity is exactly based on litres, weight then adjusted by the resource density, so in theory a container would have a flat 36,000 capacity of everything except for (LFO). I'm assuming that rocket parts being a fifth of their actual density would be to account for safe packaging etc? It all seems pretty good then capacity wise.

EDIT: I've noticed the Kontainer 2 actually has the same volume as the container 2.5m, also I can confirm the misaligned nodes on the cargo racks, I had to turn on the non strict alignment cheat to get them to attach, after a few launches the ship just decided to explode spontainously on the launch pad. Also I can't seem to get struts or fuel lines to surface attach to the structural parts or the fuel tanks.

Edited by MarcAFK
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smjjames

smjjames

Posted
Posted
...erm.... that's weird but there is a piece of the FTT i really can't find:

http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p562/MannaroThePatient/Pics/ASD.jpg

That thing inside the red circle. How its called?

I didn't realize that was the reactor, heh. Anyways, as goldenpsp implied, that image is really old. See the structural outrigger element? That's the same outrigger that's in FTT currently, it just doesn't have that central piece to it.

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