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[1.12.x] Freight Transport Technologies [v0.6.0]


RoverDude
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How do you feel about the VTOL engines? (Vote for both)  

372 members have voted

  1. 1. How do you feel about the VTOL engines? (Vote for both)

    • Propfan: Just right!
      217
    • Propfan: OMG! Overpowered!
      44
    • LFO Thrusters: Too weak
      124
    • LFO Thrusters: Just right!
      155
    • LFO Thrusters: OMG! Overpowered!
      36


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I'll look at it... right after I scratch an itch and start up on a new mod that lets you.. um... grab things. And then stick them to other things. Because I like things with open licenses.

You're rewriting KAS from scratch too? At this rate you may as well just make your own game in Unity. You're putting enough work in to do so!

I am excite.

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One thought I had was to make a slightly offset outrigger that did one half at a time, but I'll have to play with it.

How about separating it into two separate parts? The inline section with two connection nodes on the side and the spacer section you can connect to it separately. Anyway can't wait to see phase 2, makes me think of mining in EVE online.

Edited by Spagoose
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I'll look at it... right after I scratch an itch and start up on a new mod that lets you.. um... grab things. And then stick them to other things. Because I like things with open licenses.

I was just thinking about this over the weekend. Given your mods reliance on KAS (MKS in particular) it has to be a bit disconcerting when that mod's situation is in such limbo. Not so much just the licensing, but the licensing makes it difficult for the community to pick up and keep the mod going when the original author is MIA.

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How about separating it into two separate parts? The inline section with two connection nodes on the side and the spacer section you can connect to it. Anyway can't wait to see phase 2, reminds me of mining in EVE online.

I thought the same thing. It looks very minmatar-ish

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RoverDude, first off, awesome mod. After much fiddling, I managed to make a VTOL that's stable on the pitch axis, but unfortunately, noted that there seems to be a bit of off center thrust on the liquid fuel engines. The ship wants to roll to the right no matter what I do. Built in the sph, with symmetry on, and the only things off center having no physics significance(ladder).

Ignore the throttle control guy, your problem is inbalanced fuel, TAC fuel balancer worked for me, but there are other options. Mentioned it to RoverDude this morning on the IRC he suggested creative fuel lines

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I'll look at it... right after I scratch an itch and start up on a new mod that lets you.. um... grab things. And then stick them to other things. Because I like things with open licenses.

Oh! Well that sounds better anyway. :) I've been worried about KAS and was wondering when someone would try to create something similar.

Seriously though, your mods are great and thanks for your hard work.

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So just looking at the Atmo prop engine. Its insanely OP. It has a TWR of 131.4(B9 Sabre M is 88), it has a thrust output that is 10 times greater than any other electric prop engine that is roughly the same diameter. Its power consumption is equal to or less then current electric prop engines. (comparing to Firespitter engines here)

Its scary OP, even KSPI antimatter turbojets would have to bow down to it.

Once nerf balancing is over any chance in adding Firespitter VTOL control to the VTOL engines? It would greatly increase control ability.

Edit.....

Looking at RL ducted fan engines which are probably the most powerful electric fan engines you will find and crunching some heavy numbers I can say its possible to scale up to a 4m engine(close to what you have) and get about 100kn of thrust IRL(you would need one hell of a battery). Going by KSP's 10x thrust vs RL its possible but and its a big but your going to have to do some heavy multiplying on the E-cell needs to push the engines in line. A ducted fan motor does not run long and it runs really hard. Needs to be some pro's and con's or you could pretty much replace every none VAC engine.

Edited by Donziboy2
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I was thinking ORE corporation, specifically the venture mining frigate.

http://badwrongfun.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/venture.jpg

One of the inspirations.

I'll admit that the Karbonite dependency is a bit disappointing. I tried it out quite a bit but decided that it wasn't really needed for how I play, despite how well-made it is. These FTT parts look great though!

I kinda need Karbonite for the rest of what this thing does in future releases. If I get punchy I might tweak that in a way that does not break it (technically it's less Karbonite and more you need the USI_Converter, but that's not out as a separate package yet).

So just looking at the Atmo prop engine. Its insanely OP. It has a TWR of 131.4(B9 Sabre M is 88), it has a thrust output that is 10 times greater than any other electric prop engine that is roughly the same diameter. Its power consumption is equal to or less then current electric prop engines. (comparing to Firespitter engines here)

Its scary OP, even KSPI antimatter turbojets would have to bow down to it.

Once nerf balancing is over any chance in adding Firespitter VTOL control to the VTOL engines? It would greatly increase control ability.

Poll up top :) It's actually the same as stacking ten of the FireSpitter electric helicopter rotors.. A bit less thrust, a bit more power consumption, a bit less mass.

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Poll up top :) It's actually the same as stacking ten of the FireSpitter electric helicopter rotors.. A bit less thrust, a bit more power consumption, a bit less mass.

You mean the FS2ME? It has an EC consumption of 54.3/s max your VTOL engine only needs 26.2/s max, and its 9.7x the thrust and 20x less EC/s.

PS. your LFO VTOL engine does not look bad, the Vectoring seems a little high thou. And the electric VTOL has no gimbal/vectoring.

Edited by Donziboy2
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You mean the FS2ME? It has an EC consumption of 54.3/s max your VTOL engine only needs 26.2/s max, and its 9.7x the thrust and 20x less EC/s.

Oh, then I'll up the EC - it should be a LOT higher. And look into the vectoring.

- - - Updated - - -

Nice! Where are those landing legs from?

Karbonite. Goes back to the whole 'don't bundle Karbonite' thing - I leverage that particular part.

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I kinda need Karbonite for the rest of what this thing does in future releases. If I get punchy I might tweak that in a way that does not break it (technically it's less Karbonite and more you need the USI_Converter, but that's not out as a separate package yet).

That would be fun, if you parsed it down to having the USI_Converter as a separate released or if it was packaged with FTT. Then again, you've got what seems like dozens of mods to wrangle, so I don't expect that to be any where near the top of your list :)

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@Rover with regards to balance on the honeybadger; takes 6 propeller-types to lift off the same payload as 4 LF/O VTOL engines. (6 cargo bodies worth of karbonite and a generator module; with cockpit of course). That length feels about right for the size of the parts. Full craft weight on kerbin is slightly less than 280 tons (not at my home machine right now; but IIRC 278.4 tons on takeoff). Four VTOLs feels about right for takeoff; six feels excessive. From a realism standpoint obviously the thrust output is ridiculous. However take it in context with the fuel loads this thing is meant to haul. (Karbonite is stupidly massive [not in the bad sense of stupid in this regard; as that's the challenge and point of it]).

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Having some fun with Infernal Robotics. :) Sadly the Fraps time kicks in when the fun part (dead batteries) starts.

This would be cool to have on the FTT engines. Using my joystick for this, they can also do thrust control.

Edited by Donziboy2
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Cool stuff! Really, thanks to your work KSP got second wind and feels like there is so much to do...

On topic, are there any plans for some cool heavy duty wheels (caterpillar tracks mmmm)? Would also fit the theme well.

And have you thought about Honeybadger "hub" section? This three-way extension is nice but as stuff can connect to one part only anyway it can be wonky. Hidden KAS magnet module helps but it's another duct tape solution.

And about the atmospheric VTOL - while I'm an awful pilot, I think it should have shorter reaction time. It's electrical engine after all. But that's nothing a MM config woudn't solve, just wanted to leave my impression.

As for existing parts there's nothing to add really. Great looking and purposefull as always.

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Cool stuff! Really, thanks to your work KSP got second wind and feels like there is so much to do...

On topic, are there any plans for some cool heavy duty wheels (caterpillar tracks mmmm)? Would also fit the theme well.

And have you thought about Honeybadger "hub" section? This three-way extension is nice but as stuff can connect to one part only anyway it can be wonky. Hidden KAS magnet module helps but it's another duct tape solution.

And about the atmospheric VTOL - while I'm an awful pilot, I think it should have shorter reaction time. It's electrical engine after all. But that's nothing a MM config woudn't solve, just wanted to leave my impression.

As for existing parts there's nothing to add really. Great looking and purposefull as always.

True, I did find the number of ways to connect limiting, like the engines only have 2 nods, they are not surface attachable.

The electric engines should spin up faster, but there is one limit to that, in RL you could go beyond 100% input power to spin up faster. A 1s acceleration from stopped to fully on requires about 10x the normal running current for an electric motor. (I test Electric Inverters for a living, we make AC and DC inverters.) Even with limiting in place you should be able to apply full torque at any speed with an electric motor. So it should be faster then an LF prop engine.

Sadly Im at work so I cant really dig to deep into the parts configs.

Edited by Donziboy2
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For the cargo pod, does editing the possible configurations require more than adding the next resource possibility and respective volume and cost on the appropriate lines? I wanted to add in PreciousMetals to be one of the options for the freighter to carry :)

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For the cargo pod, does editing the possible configurations require more than adding the next resource possibility and respective volume and cost on the appropriate lines? I wanted to add in PreciousMetals to be one of the options for the freighter to carry :)

Yep just tack it onto that FSTextureSwitch config and go to town

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Just looking at the Electric VTOL part config.

Wondering why we need oxygen to run an electric motor? :P

MODULE
{
name = ModuleResourceIntake
resourceName = IntakeAir
checkForOxygen = true
area = 0.008
intakeSpeed = 10
intakeTransformName = Intake
}

What is require to actually get 750kN of thrust, atm on the runway you can only get 600kN.

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Just looking at the Electric VTOL part config.

Wondering why we need oxygen to run an electric motor? :P

MODULE
{
name = ModuleResourceIntake
resourceName = IntakeAir
checkForOxygen = true
area = 0.008
intakeSpeed = 10
intakeTransformName = Intake
}

What is require to actually get 750kN of thrust, atm on the runway you can only get 600kN.

That bit is there(we don't actually use it) to keep KSPI from crashing ;)

Short version... we do trickery to make this work in ways a normal intake should not ;) Ignore the man behind the curtain and all that jazz

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