RoverDude

[1.5.x] Community Resource Pack

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18 hours ago, NathanKell said:

@RoverDude Saab works on various RO mods. Those would be RF-curated resources.

@saabstory88 there's also Syntin, in terms of superchilled kero; that's already in there. I take it Musks' chilled RP-1 has different stats and thus is worth a separate entry?

I'll have to do some research to check the diffs between Syntin and Super-Cooled RP-1, but I think it would kind of kill the affect to be launching an F9-FT and see Syntin in the fuel meter.

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Could I suggest the following two resources to be added? (I calculated the KSP values based on data from wikipedia (the prices were extraploated by copious googling).

Both of them are apparently plausible propellants for some kinds of ion propulsion, as they have a high particle-per-unit-volume and very low ionization energies, are pretty non-reactive, and do not require fancy tech for long-term storage. The only downside is that both elements are relatively rare (both in the crust and in the universe).

RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
    name = Iodine
    density = 0.0004933
    flowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH
    transfer = PUMP
    isTweakable = true
    isVisible = true
    unitCost = 2.9
    hsp = 427
}

RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
    name = Bismuth
    density = 0.000978
    flowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH
    transfer = PUMP
    isTweakable = true
    isVisible = true
    unitCost = 27.58
    hsp = 123
}

 

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Hello,

This is why I delete ALL my miniavc files; updating several mods at the same time when some mods contradict each other in some ways, including resources now (?); this cant be a good thing; either way that is my choice.

If I need an update I update all my MODS to once, or individually depending on if the update is critical, which in most cases I havnt seen.

One example is BioMass.

I use BIO MASS differently than the original author's intent. The original author in my opinion, which most modders do, is to set up a basis or a template from which to players can build on, should they so desire or even dare for that matter; most players hope mods are complete.

That is fine an all but I myself looking at the CRP see something more realistic than just converting say kethane into fuel (for example; I am not saying that is done but you get the idea).

The combination of attempts to produce a good playable working resource generating KSP is in my opinion over half way there.

I am not saying my resource refinement process is better but hey; I wish I could have a way for others to use it. I see modders take from others everywhere, post up mods they call their own and leave the collective in the small print.

So getting back to BIOMASS...BIOMASS and BIOCAKE seem to come out of nowhere; I create small portions of BIOMASS in the microflora production process; it just makes more sense to me that biomass is a conflagulation of goo; the name implies that, but at least I made it so that it has to be produced; I didnt see that happening.

Then I use the wet biomass and run it thru a process to freeze dry it into biocake (trying to use the original author's terms but making more sense of them); this biocake has very little density, takes up alot of volume, and is one of the major fertlizers for food production without which food cannot grow (in space maybe!).

The whole idea of space survival is to keep weights and densities down. Since water density ingame is .001 I have biomass as .005 and biocake as .0001.

After all this writing I just see that biomass/cake is not part of the CRP ! No problem I guess; I was reading an earlier post.

I am glad that Liquid* is now Lqd* for shorter terms.

PROBLEM: Please pur the resources in alphabetical order; mine is. I will be updating mine in a live stream; I try to keep with the CRP as much as possible but I am finding descrepancies.

My liquid co2 in crp is liquidco2 i need to find out the mods that use it; i think modders are converting to lqd terms?

The densities I use from here:

http://encyclopedia.airliquide.com/encyclopedia.asp?GasID=26

This site has all the gases; there are critical densities and I choose a value close to them as some liquid forms have many densities; using the closest to critical provides a standard (?) and should be the lightest?

I am glad to see this topic; I just wish there was a good part placement program for the tech tree and I would be all set !

Commander Zeta

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Hello,

ABZB I am not sure of your resources; you know you can add any resource in the common resources cfg file?

I have added a few of my own to improve the chemical processes a little; one can go further down this rabbit hole.

I think bismuth gives coal for dirty fuel? I dont know if this would be a viable resource on other planets unless there were active volcanoes maybe; I dont know about iodine; again in my resource system I consider what chemicals would be in abundance on barren worlds.

Ihave also aded gold as a major resource on one hard to get to asteroid; also some gold on a nearby second moon maybe around Kerbin.

I use gold as a catalyst to accelerate refinement; probly something only Kerbal engineers can do; afterall some of the realism can invent new technologies !

Commander Zeta

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On 1/14/2016 at 4:18 PM, Cdr_Zeta said:

This is why I delete ALL my miniavc files; updating several mods at the same time when some mods contradict each other in some ways, including resources now (?); this cant be a good thing; either way that is my choice.

 

1 hour ago, Cdr_Zeta said:

ABZB I am not sure of your resources; you know you can add any resource in the common resources cfg file?

I have added a few of my own to improve the chemical processes a little; one can go further down this rabbit hole.

You obviously don't seem to grasp the point of the CRP.

 

 

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1 hour ago, goldenpsp said:
On 1/14/2016 at 4:18 PM, Cdr_Zeta said:

This is why I delete ALL my miniavc files; updating several mods at the same time when some mods contradict each other in some ways, including resources now (?); this cant be a good thing; either way that is my choice.

 

2 hours ago, Cdr_Zeta said:

ABZB I am not sure of your resources; you know you can add any resource in the common resources cfg file?

I have added a few of my own to improve the chemical processes a little; one can go further down this rabbit hole.

You obviously don't seem to grasp the point of the CRP.

 

 

 

Perhaps you could be a little more enlightening? I know all about CRP and I dont think your statement was even warranted thank you.

EDIT: Maybe I will add that I am updating my own CRP resources now to include all of own resources besudes just ORE on planets and moons; it is ALOT of work to have to add all these resources to them and add them to the BIOMES. Then I find duplicate resource allotments in every MOD and remove them and consolidate my 'Alphabetical' common resource list; a suggestion I made here earlier and several months ago; something I see still hasnt been done; and yes I know things take time an all; I am still waiting.

Now I actually have to port all my planetary/moon resources to the CRP listing; so trust me when I say I know how to handle CRP.

If you are going to make an accusation back it up and PM it.

Commander Zeta

Edited by Cdr_Zeta

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9 hours ago, Cdr_Zeta said:

Perhaps you could be a little more enlightening? I know all about CRP and I dont think your statement was even warranted thank you.

EDIT: Maybe I will add that I am updating my own CRP resources now to include all of own resources besudes just ORE on planets and moons; it is ALOT of work to have to add all these resources to them and add them to the BIOMES. Then I find duplicate resource allotments in every MOD and remove them and consolidate my 'Alphabetical' common resource list; a suggestion I made here earlier and several months ago; something I see still hasnt been done; and yes I know things take time an all; I am still waiting.

Now I actually have to port all my planetary/moon resources to the CRP listing; so trust me when I say I know how to handle CRP.

If you are going to make an accusation back it up and PM it.

Commander Zeta

The OP actually explains things better than I could (hopefully you read it).  But in general the whole point of the CRP is that you SHOULDN'T be adding your own personal resources to the CRP config file.  All the resources in the CRP were added by the various modders who use those resources debating and deciding on a common configuration for that resource.

If you have a lot of other resources you shouldn't be putting them into the CRP config, unless you want a CRP update to actually break yours.  You should be making an alternate config file, say CDR_Zetasresources.cfg

the irony here is that ABZB actually does understand, hence why he asked here in this thread for inclusion of new resources to the CRP.

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@goldenpsp and @Cdr_Zeta

Yep, OP covers this pretty well.  Messing with the CRP file is pretty high up on the 'list of bad things you can do'.  The *ENTIRE* point is that every resource in that list has been standardized and vetted, and has a designated curator - so we don't get surprises with twenty different definitions of water, or a mod suddenly making oxygen ten times as dense or 100 times the cost.

If you want to make your own resources, that has zero to do with CRP (just make a config file and go crazy).

CRP files should *NEVER* be modified, or things are unleashed and children are eaten.

If you want to change resource distribution, the stock resource system automatically deltas duplicate resource distribution configs (and takes the most optimistic view, sspecifically to prevent mods from breaking eachother).

@ABZB - CRP starts with mods first.  The current CRP has a combination of USI, NFT, KSPI, OSE Workshop, and RF.  Always happy to add others, but I like to see ones either from pretty major and established mods, or ones where a couple of modders have come together on consensus so we see value in reuse.

 

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Greetings,

Golden, let me clarify !

I dont add resources to the CRP; the CRP common resource list is actually more extensive (and out of alphabetical order) then my own resource list.

When I started the BIO Resource game (or when anyone does) they pool from the common resource list (or CRP package) and leave it as is. I have been out of the game for probly a year I dont even know how long, so my common resource list is smaller but includes probly most all the original resources; I havnt added any more resources and I dont add any unless I know what they are used for.

For example, I dont have any use for LEAD, so I dont add it; why take up game memory if it isnt needed; I dont play a boat or submarine game so I dont use LEAD ballast etc. I dont even know what else I would use lead for and it doesnt come up as a viable product for Kerbalnaut space survival (in 'my' KSP game).

Also when I say 'adding resources', I mean to the planets/moons, not to the CRP package (!); understand? Right now ORE is the only resource as such.

Also there is the SQUAD resource list called resourcesgeneric; each MOD with a resource list. You are sure MOD resources are pooled first? This implies that any dupes allow CRP to have the final say in the resource game data? I am just wanting to understand this and now I will even test this in the game to verify exactly what is going on here.

It would be nice if this were the case.

I on the other hand prefer to delete all MOD resource list(s) and use the common resource list provided by CRP (and ALPABETIZED by ME !) as it is easier to look up any resource and quicker.

I hope you see that if anything I take out resources from the common resource list that I dont use ! That is just a gameplayers perrogative. Also, I havnt played since probly more resources have been added to the list; if I see a use for them I add them.

I hope this clairifies. Also I use the above link as my primary source for densities; one list; one site. If you all use another density list or website please let us know where this information is coming from and why those values are more correct.

There are some liquid fuels that boil at 'travel' (?) density too; I havnt figured that one out yet; have you and which fuels/liquids?

Commander Zeta

 

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Hello,

Let me retract a bit - per se yes I have my own resource list for example I have bauxite; I added this to the Common resources list.

Now I understand I didnt think of creating my own list; however for a couple reasons I didnt.

1) I wanted to have ONE list of resources in my game; since the CRP common resource list seemed to be the most obvious, and now seemingly using the config lists for planetary resources, I chose to add my 'NEW' resources to the list.

2) The Common Resource List in CRP was severely, for whatever reasons, out of ALPHABETICAL ORDER; basically impossible to use; I decided to alphabetize the list; now since CRP has been updated and not alphabetized (again) I am adding the new CRP resources to the CRP list but keeping them in alphabetical order.

It is the same list; just in alphabetical order; does that make a difference (?); YES.

Now my own resources not in the CRP list, could be put into my own cfg file; but I guess I figured why have more than one list, and since no one else uses 'MY' CRP list I see no problem in doing so; I do not redistribute my CRP resource list; anyone can do whatever they want in their own game as long as they dont redistribute other people's work.

Now this becomes a problem when people request their MOD resources to be added if other players dont use those resources, why have them in the list (?); thus modders have their own resource list; and some or most dont imply that others use CRP.

The CRP is nice but what of resources not used by others in the list?

I am making a few checks; probly added resources not used dont affect memory that much but maybe I can check a few things; I run my game to a limit and memory considerations are important.

Commander Zeta

 

 

 

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All of this is covered in the OP.   

(edit) 

to summarize.

If you want to use CRP with the mod you are distributing, go for it.  We even add new resources from time to time.

If you don't like a resource, take it up with the curator.

If you are a modder using CRP and distributing it, don't change it.

If you are player, do whatever you want just be aware that if you break CRP, you are probably going to be breaking mods.

 

Edited by RoverDude
  • Like 1

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Hello,

So doesnt this beg the question how do we know what MODS use CRP exclusively? I take it on the MOD OP there is a post to state MOD Dependencies and whether or not CRP is one of them; point made.

I havnt seen this new OP since it moved (I guess to 1.0) and I need to reread it to get an update; totally agree here.

I think we are all on the same page and again I wasnt thinking about doing up my own cfg for my own resources outside of CRP; it is easy to do but if a new CRP comes out it means I have to check each one of my resources against it each time in 2 seperate cfg files; more work for the player.

Another option for me is to make a request for resources to be added to the CRP list; simpy put it is my own MOD of BIOMASS, MKS, EL etc. I saw the posts about EL. Example rocketparts arent a real life resource; does CRP differentiate between real life resources and MOD resources?

I have a MOD process that uses KerbalTime as a resource; for my own purposes it wouldnt make sense to add that to CRP; I think MODDERS are left with keeping the extraneous resource lists. At some point this will all be consolidated and yes let me look at the OP.

Commander Zeta

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Zeta,

The Community Resource Pack is mainly for mod authors to collaborate to set a "definition" for a certain resource that stock KSP does not cover.  It's a hive mind that tries to agree that X unit of Y resource is agreeable to everyone that uses said resource in their mod.  Thus, when everyone agrees with the definition, they can make their mod so that they don't step on each others' toes with regard to 1.5m tank can only hold Z amount of the resource.  It makes interop between mods very easy and virtually seamless to the "end user" when it comes to said resource.

The resources that are specific (or created by a particular mod) are curated by that mods' author.  If I understand one of your issues correctly, it is that the CRP list isn't alpha from top to bottom and you would like to see that done so that you can more easily compare your changes to the CRP list.  So in essence you are asking all of the mod authors that use CRP to update their mod distributions with a new alphabetized listing, regardless of curation sublisting .... for your own benefit and no real change is made except for line numbers.  The mod authors have no wish to re-release their mods with a new version number only because they need to bundle a new alphabetized version of CRP resources.  It makes little sense to me to have 13 mods (arbitrary number) repackage their mods because CRP went from version z.b.c to z.b.d and now CKAN/ KSP_AVC / KSP start screaming at the end users to update to the newest version that is simply alphabetized and no real changes made.  A lot of work for various people for not a lot of gain.

As a "user" and not a mod author that has taken a dependency on CRP for your "modifications / additions" ... you are asking quite a few folks to make a change that in reality only makes your particular circumstance easier.  I too make modifications to many parts of KSP ... in my own CFG files with module manager.  KSP is fantastic in this regard, along with most mod authors making the variables changeable in the cfg files to suit your own playstyle.

I will not debate the removing of X resource in CRP for whatever reason.  I personally can't think of a reason why ~8 lines in a cfg file would make any impact on my game performance so I can't intelligently comment.  What I do ask is that you consider the big picture here.  The goal of CRP is well stated in the OP. 

"But what if I want my own resources?!"

Go for it. CRP does not dictate what resources your mod has or how you use them, just that you don't create ones that conflict with ones already there in CRP.

If you feel that an established resource in CRP is wrong, take it up with curator of that mod's resource.  They made the mod, you might not agree with it at times, but ultimately it is their mod, their resource definition, and you can either work with it or mod it to your preference.  If you mod it to your preference, don't expect it to be changed in CRP since that may break another mod that depends on the established definition in CRP.

Respectully,

~M~

Edited by Mynar Moonshadow

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0.4.9 - 2016.02.01
------------------
Added Hydrates as a resource and also to the resource map (represents regolith with captive water)
Added Gypsum (an excellent raw material for fertilizer) as a resource and to the resource map
ExoticMinerals and RareMetals can now be directly harvested

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Question: I installed CRP just for the USI Exploration Pack and now it adds a whole bunch of resources that I can't mine or use to the resource scan results... would that negatively affect things, like the amount of usable Ore I could mine from asteroids?

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Yep, that's one of the side effects.  If that causes any issues, you can remove Asteroid.cfg from the CRP folder.

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Hi, probably a silly question - I've just done some mod updating, so I have CRP 0.4.9.0, SCANSat 14.7, UKS 0.33.3, etc., and I'm not seeing Hydrates as a resource in SCANSat.

...Is this correct?  Do I need to reset resource data / delete something?  Or get another kind of scanner part?

 

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Just now, ChrisF0001 said:

Hi, probably a silly question - I've just done some mod updating, so I have CRP 0.4.9.0, SCANSat 14.7, UKS 0.33.3, etc., and I'm not seeing Hydrates as a resource in SCANSat.

...Is this correct?  Do I need to reset resource data / delete something?  Or get another kind of scanner part?

 

Ask Scansat?

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29 minutes ago, goldenpsp said:

Ask Scansat?

Okay, so it is indeed expected at this point, thanks!  I, er, may be a little paranoid about messing up my install...

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13 minutes ago, ChrisF0001 said:

Okay, so it is indeed expected at this point, thanks!  I, er, may be a little paranoid about messing up my install...

Not sure if I understand, but CRP is just a bunch of resource definitions that other mods use.  So it seems more appropriate to ask mods that make use of it.

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Not to clutter up the thread with non-crp issues, but if someone else lands here from searching:

SCANsat uses it's own method for determining what sensors can "see" which resource(s).  You can get more information over in that thread, including how to add / remove resources from the part.cfg.

~M~

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Not sure what the curators of CRP think of this idea, but RoverDude's latest update notes have a suggested uses for the new resources. Maybe that is something to consider adding to the comments in the common resources file. Where it might not be intuitive, such as substrate, have a comment for an example usage. That would help modders get ideas on how to use and combine resources. It isn't something set in stone, just a hint on how it's used in the major/collaboration mods.

Edited by Angel-125
  • Like 2

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That really depends on the mods that use them - so KSPI-E, UKS, NFT, etc. would have the info in their relevant wikis/documentation.  This mod is more of a meta-mod used by other modders as a resource clearinghouse.

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