RoverDude

[1.5.x] Community Resource Pack

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A bit late to the party here, but...

Wait, why? I thought the point is to have those, regardless if anyone actually uses them.

Plus yes realism really gets messed up, Kirbin has green plant life you know...

The point of the pack is to establish commonality with stuff that we actually use :) The ones listed either (a) are not used at all, and just have no corresponding resources , (B) exist but don't tie to the resource (like CO2), or convert pure elements to an abstract resource (Hydrogen -> LF, Oxygen to Oxidizer).

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The point of the pack is to establish commonality with stuff that we actually use :) The ones listed either (a) are not used at all, and just have no corresponding resources , (B) exist but don't tie to the resource (like CO2), or convert pure elements to an abstract resource (Hydrogen -> LF, Oxygen to Oxidizer).

Well the thing is, we are back to the problem of before. Guy A develops a mod using nitrogen, Guy B develops mod using nitrogen. Each of them adds their own concentration, density, cost etc. So either we end up with conflicts, or those people should know about each other, and be willing to play together...

IMO gasses/oceans should be defined both as concentrations and resources, so modders can directly use them.

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Well the thing is, we are back to the problem of before. Guy A develops a mod using nitrogen, Guy B develops mod using nitrogen. Each of them adds their own concentration, density, cost etc. So either we end up with conflicts, or those people should know about each other, and be willing to play together...

IMO gasses/oceans should be defined both as concentrations and resources, so modders can directly use them.

But in your example, guy A either used CRP from the start and we added it in (since he would have done the appropriate research on Nitrogen - note we don't even have a resource, it's just a weird visual artifact from KSPI so it's confusing). Or, guy B did his own thing without being aware CRP existed, then when guy B did use CRP and lobbied to have Nitrogen added, guy A can either choose to adapt, or risk conflict. In both cases, having new resources predefined (that are not in use yet) does little for the process. I mean, I'm not opposed to it - but right now there isn't even a resources, a lot of those are just confusing string text, or string text that one would think is tied to a resource but isn't :) In other words, no resources are being removed, but no new ones are being added.

The issue with oceanic and atmospheric is that they tally up to a percentage, so if we're not careful we end up with 200% atmospheres, hence the need for discussion and to not fill up the definitions with strings not even tied to resources :) That's why Kerbin will actually get oxygen - right now it converts to oxidizer which is weird - so that I can do things like pull it in for life support. etc. without hackiness.

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0.1.3 is up

  • Adjusted cost and densities of Water, Food, Oxygen, Waste, WasteWater, and CarbonDioxide to correspond to TAC-LS 0.10
    9*]Added crustal water to Kerbin and Tylo.

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But in your example, guy A either used CRP from the start and we added it in (since he would have done the appropriate research on Nitrogen - note we don't even have a resource, it's just a weird visual artifact from KSPI so it's confusing). Or, guy B did his own thing without being aware CRP existed, then when guy B did use CRP and lobbied to have Nitrogen added, guy A can either choose to adapt, or risk conflict. In both cases, having new resources predefined (that are not in use yet) does little for the process. I mean, I'm not opposed to it - but right now there isn't even a resources, a lot of those are just confusing string text, or string text that one would think is tied to a resource but isn't :) In other words, no resources are being removed, but no new ones are being added.

The issue with oceanic and atmospheric is that they tally up to a percentage, so if we're not careful we end up with 200% atmospheres, hence the need for discussion and to not fill up the definitions with strings not even tied to resources :) That's why Kerbin will actually get oxygen - right now it converts to oxidizer which is weird - so that I can do things like pull it in for life support. etc. without hackiness.

Not exactly - compare with existing resources. Guy A needs oxygen, so does guy B - since it's already defined both simply use it. You have to remember not every modder/tweaker actually releases their mods.

Yes exactly the point - we want oceans and atmos to add up to about 100%. So if an atmo has 100% concentration and 5 elements, adding a 6th generally means, changing the concentrations of others.

In addition if you remove 'useless' gasses which seem to be common, and make the concentrations of the useful up to 100% you really change the balance of things. This is why it's very useful to have a dominant gas/liquid. Whenever you'd need to add something new, you'll take from the major. When I think about it, would be nice if ORS had a concept of default gas/liquid, and automatically adjusted it's concentration so the total adds up correctly.

There is also the point of realism - it's just weird to have green plant-life without nitrogen, water oceans without crustal/atmospheric water.

There is also the 'realism' with how common elements are in universe.

IMO gasses/liquids when harvested should turn to defined resource - eg - water to water, nitrogen to nitrogen. Modders can then define the actual parts and converters.

IMHO stuff should be there regardless of whether someone uses it or not.

Edited by Aedile

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I was making myself a Bosch converter based on the Universal Storage Sabatier Reactor part, and realized that I needed to do something with the graphite generated by the reaction. I'll probably try to fold it into TAC-LS "waste" once I figure out the densities (graphite is 2.267 g/ml, but waste appears to be .75 g/ml (in the TacResources.cfg file - in the spreadsheet on this first post here it's showing as 1 g/ml). Do you think a graphite resource would be useful in any way?

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I was making myself a Bosch converter based on the Universal Storage Sabatier Reactor part, and realized that I needed to do something with the graphite generated by the reaction. I'll probably try to fold it into TAC-LS "waste" once I figure out the densities (graphite is 2.267 g/ml, but waste appears to be .75 g/ml (in the TacResources.cfg file - in the spreadsheet on this first post here it's showing as 1 g/ml). Do you think a graphite resource would be useful in any way?

At the very least we toss it on the 'stuff people use' list once your mod is released :)

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Can't be against your initiative RoverDude. I use Karbonite as well as KAS, Universal Storage and TAC-LS. Seem to me that these mods were already "playing nice" for the most part on each other.

As a KSP player, having resources defined outside of the boundaries of any given mods is more than welcome... Reminds me of an idea that I had for Minecraft: If there could be some sort of "periodic table of the Kerbol elements" that moders and users alike could simply refer to when needed. You make it happen!

P.S: Is it really necessary to have an alpha channel in the PNG files used to defined resource in ORS? Just wondering...

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Can't be against your initiative RoverDude. I use Karbonite as well as KAS, Universal Storage and TAC-LS. Seem to me that these mods were already "playing nice" for the most part on each other.

As a KSP player, having resources defined outside of the boundaries of any given mods is more than welcome... Reminds me of an idea that I had for Minecraft: If there could be some sort of "periodic table of the Kerbol elements" that moders and users alike could simply refer to when needed. You make it happen!

P.S: Is it really necessary to have an alpha channel in the PNG files used to defined resource in ORS? Just wondering...

I doubt it :) I should take that out and save on some space. Funny thing, there were some subtle differences between TAC and US (very subtle!) but we got that sorted like... day one :D Working with the BioMass guys now to get everything they have all sorted so even more mods play well together

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Hey, I just upgraded this and suddenly the KA-100 Detection Array and the CanOMatic Soil Sample Machine are reducing my framerate to 0.5fps when I put them on the launchpad. Anyone else running into a similar problem?

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Hey, I just upgraded this and suddenly the KA-100 Detection Array and the CanOMatic Soil Sample Machine are reducing my framerate to 0.5fps when I put them on the launchpad. Anyone else running into a similar problem?

Are you using KSPI? i.e. the FractalUK version not the WaveFunctionP version (KSPI Lite)?

Also did you nest your GameData folder?

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Hey RoverDude -

If I wanted to make a modmod that modified the costs of several CRP resources, would it be possible to do so in a modulemanager file? Or would resources need to be completely redefined to change one of their parameters?

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Hey RoverDude -

If I wanted to make a modmod that modified the costs of several CRP resources, would it be possible to do so in a modulemanager file? Or would resources need to be completely redefined to change one of their parameters?

That would pretty much defeat the entire purpose of CRP ;)

To put it a different way. I can count, 100%, on the cost of oxygen. Or water. I build tanks with costs based on this. If these suddenly change, it breaks things and this makes me sad. If you are not using CRP, you can do whatever you like. If you are using CRP, then the agreement to be allowed on the playground is that we don't change anything so we have a dose of sanity.

But I am curious... what costs do you want to change and why? Figure there's always a deeper reason in there somewhere :)

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Well, I wouldn't be looking at distributing the modifications as part of a mod, but rather the modifications would be the mod itself.

I would like to create a mod that greatly ups the cost of parts and resources that are currently in the "might as well toss this on to my ship" category. So let's say food for example: I don't mind that you can easily bring a 3 years of supplies for a single ton, but I want to make that expensive enough that you will actually think twice, and quite possibly use the tweakables to only bring as much as you need. Unrelated to this topic is the fact that I would do the same thing for parts that have potentially huge career mode ROI - so things like science parts would be 10 or even 100 times as expensive as stock. No longer would you just toss a few thermometers on to a vessel "because why not?"

I think it would have the possibility of creating a pretty fun and different career mode experience. This would be created for my own fun factor but possibly distributed if the licenses involved permit it.

Anyway, I'm also just doing some fact finding in to how all this modding stuff works in KSP, as I'm about ready to dive in to developing a few original plugins.

Edited by OverloadUT

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Well, I wouldn't be looking at distributing the modifications as part of a mod, but rather the modifications would be the mod itself.

I would like to create a mod that greatly ups the cost of parts and resources that are currently in the "might as well toss this on to my ship" category. So let's say food for example: I don't mind that you can easily bring a 3 years of supplies for a single ton, but I want to make that expensive enough that you will actually think twice, and quite possibly use the tweakables to only bring as much as you need. Unrelated to this topic is the fact that I would do the same thing for parts that have potentially huge career mode - so things like science parts would be 10 or 100 times as expensive. No longer would you just toss a few thermometers on to a vessel "because why not?"

I think it would have the possibility of creating a pretty fun and different career mode experience. This would be created for my own fun factor but possibly distributed if the licenses involved permit it.

Anyway, I'm also just doing some fact finding in to how all this modding stuff works in KSP, as I'm about ready to dive in to developing a few original plugins.

Yeah that would be bad because it would break lots of stuff :) You would create money faucets by launching and recovering life support parts due to how cost works.

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I understand the ramifications. Ideally I'd love to flag resources as having no value upon recovering. Perhaps a plugin project in the future!

Anyway, is the answer to my question that you have to override the resources with a new definition? Or is it possible to do with ModuleManager?

Don't worry; I'm not going to go and stomp all over your unification efforts - I think they're one of the most important projects out there for a mod addict like me. I'm just trying to fact find for how to execute an idea I have for my own project. :D

Edit: I suppose the RIGHT way to accomplish what I want would be a plugin that adds a surcharge for including certain resources on a rocket. That way the "costs" of the resources are not ever modified, except that trying to launch with a bunch of pre-filled resources will cost you a big fee to do so. That would fix the recovery issue and not touch the CRP. Hmmm... I might explore this avenue further!

Edited by OverloadUT

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Are you using KSPI? i.e. the FractalUK version not the WaveFunctionP version (KSPI Lite)?

Also did you nest your GameData folder?

I came here looking for others having the same problem. I don't know TTTA's configuration, but I am having that same issue. I added the KA-100 Detection Array and went to launch. On the pad, framerate dropped to 1 (according to FRAPS) and the game was unusable. I went back to the VAB and removed only that part and re-launched without issue. I tried it by only adding a OCTO2 and the KA-100. Result, bad framerate. OCTO2 alone, no issues.

I am not using KSPI as far as I know, I don't think it was bundled with other

I am not 100% sure what you mean by nesting the GameData folder, but the directory path is E:\Steam Library\SteamApps\common\Kerbal Space Program\GameData\UmbraSpaceIndustries

I love the mod and am not complaining, but if I can help you diagnose this for others I'd be happy to try. I'm a bit new though so forgive me if I'm missing something obvious to veterans.

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First of all, a big thanks to all the wonderful modders out there doing the fabulous work they do!

I know it is early to ask, but how far are we in terms of compatibility between KSPI and all the USI mods, as well as TAC-LS?

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First of all, a big thanks to all the wonderful modders out there doing the fabulous work they do!

I know it is early to ask, but how far are we in terms of compatibility between KSPI and all the USI mods, as well as TAC-LS?

It's not a huge job, just another task for me on a sizeable list. I think I will aim to get it done for the next update of Interstellar.

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It's not a huge job, just another task for me on a sizeable list. I think I will aim to get it done for the next update of Interstellar.

Let me know when that changes, that would be good. At this point since the current KSPI does not use CRP, and since I expect Wave will (rightfully so) follow what KSPI does with KSPI-L, there's no value to users in having the weight of CRP including a bunch of duplicate PNGs, etc. (I assume it would just use the same assets that the current KSPI release does).

Since right now I am busily prepping for 0.25 (and major releases are generally when I do reorganization), I'm deprecating ORS and any KSPI-specific resources just to keep from accidentally stomping on KSPI.

If that changes in the future, awesome - we can work it in. If that changes before 0.25, let me know - I do pre-releases for stuff like this so I don't surprise people who have dependencies on the mods I make. If the current situation does not change, then I want to make sure that at a minimum, I do my part to not stomp on your mod by accident, and make sure that my mod constellation and the ones I curate are not stomped on by any KSPI changes. I figure that's a good starting point ;)

My PM remains open - ping me if you wish to discuss, or have any questions. I'm also usually in the IRC channel.

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i'm sorry if this is in the wrong thread but I've been going through my game with just Kethane installed in fear of messing something up if i install Karbonite...

now my question is, if i install karbonite will it work with/alongside kethane as just another resource (like EL) or will it get upset i'm using Kethane? (also will i have to install this alongside karbonite?)

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i'm sorry if this is in the wrong thread but I've been going through my game with just Kethane installed in fear of messing something up if i install Karbonite...

now my question is, if i install karbonite will it work with/alongside kethane as just another resource (like EL) or will it get upset i'm using Kethane? (also will i have to install this alongside karbonite?)

You will find all Karbonite related information in the Karbonite-Thread.

Especially:

Will installing Karbonite break Kethane?

Karbonite will not conflict with Kethane.

So you should have no problems.

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I figured it out. Posting here to see if it helps TTTA or others.

I didn't have KSPI installed at all, so I added it. I think for most, that should do it. I had a problem when entering the VAB and it would CTD. I knew the KA-100 was working because I had a simple ship with an OCTO2 and the KA-100 sitting on the launchpad when I opened the game. I would go there and the KA-100 loads and operates as it should.

After digging some more I started to remove things in the KSPI bundle to try to address the VAB issue. The bundle included the Warp Plugin, which didn't agree with something else and would cause a CTD when I would enter the VAB. I removed it and everything else works fine. I'll dig deeper and see if I can ID the specific part later.

HTH.

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CRP 0.2.0 PRE-RELEASE is up.

Transition to ORSX vs ORS maps

Updated cost of hydrogen per Universal Storage

Refactored folders to be sorted by resource

Removed Alumina and Uranium maps as these were KSPI specific

Water everywhere :)

I will update the OP tomorrow to reflect our break from ORS. The change should not affect most folks since you were using the resource list not the ORS maps - those were shared by CRP and KSPI-L, hence the deprecation (though uranium will be making a comeback as a harvestable in a later release). So the only ORS v ORSX change is in the planetary/oceanic/atmospheric resource configs.

Would like to keep the thread on topic to specifically cover CRP and transition issues. For ORS issues, please see the ORS thread (NOTE, this will not involve any of the USI mods as they have moved to ORSX). For ORSX issues, see the relevant USI thread. For SCANSat, ORSX support is coming in 0.8x of SCANSat, likely with the 0.25 release (I am releasing all of this early so people have time to test interop).

The current CRP is up, consider this a pre-release for testing :)

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