RoverDude

[1.5.x] Community Resource Pack

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I'd really like more standardisation with regard to user-defined resources (prices, densities, reactive ratios). What's the hurdle?

Anyway here's my definition. Keep in mind the calculations rely on the data in this mod and as Nertea said, the assumption on liquid fuel, so it's only as good as those. I looked up (very quickly) the RL prices of liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen and used the ratio.

You're welcome to add a better comment to it if you want.


RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
name = LiquidOxygen // Pure oxidiser
density = 0.00644178
unitCost = 0.106383
flowMode = STACK_PRIORITY_SEARCH
transfer = PUMP
isTweakable = true
}

That's just LH2 though. It's dead simple (ratio = 1.0). If you want to do LH2+LOX (which I suspect he does), I don't have a reference myself for it.

I remember from chemistry that 1g of hydrogen reacts with 16g 8g of oxygen. So that's a starting point at least. Unfortunately afaik KSP works with volumes of resources, not their masses, which is just weird.

Edited by Cpt. Kipard
I'm an idiot. It's H-TWO-O also Updated density

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The hurdle is getting everyone interested in changing their mods. That's just not realistic in the short term, so I'm settling for 'get everyone to agree on using the same resource, based on whoever came up with it first'. So far, it's been downright pleasant for the players.

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I forgot to add.

Nertea said "LH2" and "LOX"

In case people don't know, oxygen, just like hydrogen, exists as a molecule in nature. This might factor into peoples calculations of resource consumption. I don't know the exact numbers but the density of oxygen atoms is bound to be higher in molecular oxygen, so since KSP works with volumes, you should be able to get away with decreasing the amount required by your machines depending on what you thought initially.

Working with masses would make KSP so much easier to work with.

Edited by Cpt. Kipard

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FYI - will need to update ExoticMatter to have a bit of mass, as it's being a bit flaky as a fuel.

Post if there are any objections (granted I think the only person using ExoticMatter that also uses CRP is Wave).

Should not have an impact on KSPI other than making the ship a tiny bit heavier :P

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FYI - will need to update ExoticMatter to have a bit of mass, as it's being a bit flaky as a fuel.

Post if there are any objections (granted I think the only person using ExoticMatter that also uses CRP is Wave).

Should not have an impact on KSPI other than making the ship a tiny bit heavier :P

Why does it need mass? It's basicly just a charge for warp drive.

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Why does it need mass? It's basicly just a charge for warp drive.

The way the stock engine modules calculate their fuel flow rate from thrust and Isp requires every ModuleEngines or ModuleEnginesFX to have at least one fuel with mass to avoid a division by zero. If there's an upcoming part that runs ExoticMatter in a stock engine, that would require it to have a density.

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undercoveryankee is correct. It's about to be used for an Alcubierre drive, and given it also runs on ExoticMatter, it will need some kind of mass (a very tiny mass and at least we're not dealing with 500,000 unit tanks of the stuff :D)

TBH I've never used KSPI's warp drive, but expect it's it's own code, whereas mine is (for a few reasons) tied to the engine throttle before handling the positional translation stuff.

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Yeah, kspi uses custom code for the engine. The mass would need to be small. The charge in the drives can be quite large.

Hmmm... how much is a typical chage amount?

If it's excessive I have no problem keeping ExoticMatter massless and I can just add a secondary resource to my drive (it has some directional thrusters built in, so it could be XenonGas or something).

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So a quick update since I'm in the middle of gutting tons of mods, and figured it was time for the 'fair warning' post, given I would not be shocked if we saw 0.90 before Christmas, and I do all save-breaking stuff on major releases.

Regolith will be ready for 0.90. In testing now doing a ton of converting. It's less memory intensive, more performant, and a lot more flexible than ORS/ORS-X. And it's going to be a LOT smaller download.

So really more a question for Wave - if you have not yet converted to ORS-X you will want to convert to Regolith, since ORS-X will no longer be maintained post 0.90. I'll toss pre-release versions of both CRP and Regolith out there early so people can test. Also let me know if there are resources you still use that I need to toss in there.

A big thing with Regolith is that the resources are randomized on a per-save basis (with options for overrides and such). The plus side is that we are no longer hosed when people use different planet packs. But it does do away with the beach balls, etc. and assumes SCANSat or some other integration (and DMagic is working on the SCANSat upgrade). For this reason I may bundle a variant of Cyrik's overlay, which also ties to SCANSat - so his can be the basic one (and replace the beach balls), with SCANSat being the optional (but recommended) upgrade.

Other than that, the only other change so far is that I will be adding one new resource - Hydrates - to cover captive water and differentiate between surface ice/water or water easily harvested (and in a form usable by TAC-LS, etc.) and the case where water can be extracted from a hydrate with significantly more power or specialized equipment.

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So a quick update since I'm in the middle of gutting tons of mods, and figured it was time for the 'fair warning' post, given I would not be shocked if we saw 0.90 before Christmas, and I do all save-breaking stuff on major releases.

Regolith will be ready for 0.90. In testing now doing a ton of converting. It's less memory intensive, more performant, and a lot more flexible than ORS/ORS-X. And it's going to be a LOT smaller download.

So really more a question for Wave - if you have not yet converted to ORS-X you will want to convert to Regolith, since ORS-X will no longer be maintained post 0.90. I'll toss pre-release versions of both CRP and Regolith out there early so people can test. Also let me know if there are resources you still use that I need to toss in there.

A big thing with Regolith is that the resources are randomized on a per-save basis (with options for overrides and such). The plus side is that we are no longer hosed when people use different planet packs. But it does do away with the beach balls, etc. and assumes SCANSat or some other integration (and DMagic is working on the SCANSat upgrade). For this reason I may bundle a variant of Cyrik's overlay, which also ties to SCANSat - so his can be the basic one (and replace the beach balls), with SCANSat being the optional (but recommended) upgrade.

Other than that, the only other change so far is that I will be adding one new resource - Hydrates - to cover captive water and differentiate between surface ice/water or water easily harvested (and in a form usable by TAC-LS, etc.) and the case where water can be extracted from a hydrate with significantly more power or specialized equipment.

About resources, I don't know if they are there but it might be good to include atmospheric hydrogen, atmospheric nitrogen and atmospheric carbondioxide (some people say this makes colonizing venus much easier than mars -> case for cloud cities vel OKS station with some floaties w/altitutde control in upper parts of atmosphere)

http://www.science20.com/robert_inventor/will_we_build_colonies_that_float_over_venus_like_buckminster_fullers_cloud_nine-127573

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization_of_Venus

possible uses of nitrogen:

- food and plants:

"Most of all you can have food from the water, the nitrogen and the CO2. Perhaps you will need to bring in some phosphor and oligoelements to complete that as well as the first seeds of course."

- reducing spare parts usage (http://www.southtektalk.com/p/nitrogen-for-power-plants.html)

- nitrogen>liquid nitrogen> many possible uses (coolant, cryogenic chambers, superconductors etc)

- gas to fill floating balloons / structures over venus (venus-like planet)

- radiation absorbtion

rocket fuels:

- solid nitrogen (rocket fuel that requires much smaller tanks)

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/solid-nitrogen-fuel-could/

- new gen rocket fuel N(NO2)3 that is 20-30% more efficient than best rocket fuels today:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/101222071831.htm

"A rule of thumb is that for every ten-percent increase in efficiency for rocket fuel, the payload of the rocket can double"

I don't know if it makes sense at the current stage but it might be also worth implementing something like surface radiation (I guess above ground radiation could be calculated taking into account planetary radiation, sun radiation, atmosphere composition and density, didn't do complete research though). Idea would be to have some spots on planet requiring using some kind of radiation absorbents.

Edited by riocrokite
nitrogen applications

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Once there's a mod that uses these, and they join us on the playground, we can discuss adding them :)

One of the things that drove me nuts about the original ORS implementation was that a bunch of resources were added that were not in fact used by any mods, and were just (IMO) clutter. I'd just as soon not repeat that ;)

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Once there's a mod that uses these, and they join us on the playground, we can discuss adding them :)

One of the things that drove me nuts about the original ORS implementation was that a bunch of resources were added that were not in fact used by any mods, and were just (IMO) clutter. I'd just as soon not repeat that ;)

Yah. Mentioned those just in case it is more troublesome to implement stuff later than during design phase.

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0.3.0 is up! NOTE: THIS VERSION DEPRECATES ORS-X!

CRP is now tied to Regolith as ORS-X is being deprecated, so the old PNG maps have been removed.

(there will be a Regolith refresh released simultaneously)

  • KSP 0.90 refresh!
  • Added RocketParts to the CRP (based on EL)
  • Changed Karbonite to STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
  • Added Chemicals and Polymers to the CRP (based on MKS/OKS)
  • Deprecated all ORSX maps and data
  • Updated CRP to include Regolith planetary data

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I downloaded your zip file and when I checked the changes I noticed that you didn't change Karbonite to STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW

Copied right from the CommonResources.cfg


RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
name = Karbonite
density = 0.0125
unitCost = 1.6
flowMode = ALL_VESSEL
transfer = PUMP
isTweakable = true
}

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0.3.2 is up!

Added a guaranteed interplanetary Karbonite abundance to Jool

Tweaked Karbonite randomization to have a lower max value (in line with other resources)

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Hello.

I'm currently maintaining 0.90 port for KSP Interstellar by FractalUK, and some people asked me to look at other resource frameworks. Old ORS is very old and the code is not refactored for too long, so i'm dreaming about Regolith migration. But for now i just want a CRP integration. I've just released the dev version, wich tries to use as much CRP resources as it is possible without breaking gameplay features, but for things to work correctly i use these patches:

[TABLE=class: highlight tab-size-8 js-file-line-container]

[TR]

[TD=class: blob-code js-file-line]@RESOURCE_DEFINITION[Aluminium]

{

%unitCost = 0.027

}

@RESOURCE_DEFINITION[Lithium]

{

%unitCost = 0.0032

}

@RESOURCE_DEFINITION[Ammonia]

{

%unitCost = 0.00044

}

@RESOURCE_DEFINITION[LqdHelium]

{

%unitCost = 0.022

}

@RESOURCE_DEFINITION[Antimatter]

{

%isTweakable = false

%unitCost = 1

}[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=class: blob-code js-file-line][/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=class: blob-code js-file-line][/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

Container and tank costs are calculated using these prices, and antimatter in CRP is by default tweakable. From the CRP google docs file it is clear that all those resources are from KSPI-lite, wich means it's probably OK for me to leave these changes. I don't think people will try to use KSPI-lite and KSPI simultaneously.

So, what should i do?

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Looks like Wave is still around - so I'd say get with him. I really have no prob tweaking any of those as needed so that you need no MM files. Wave's been pretty reasonable to deal with, but give him a ping and let me know.

Ideally, the dust settles with KSPI (it's kinda been a zoo since 0.24.2). My counter question to you will be what your intent is once Fractal_UK comes back, since I strongly doubt he'd roll in a Regolith conversion or a CRP dependency.

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I'm absolutely OK with having MM files, I just wanted to know if I should expect inter-mod compatibility problems from it.

That's a job for git to split needed changes from unpleasant ones. If Fractal comes back, I'll help him with it. Either way, my "Dive into Interstellar" ride showed that there actually are no real technical difficulties with switchhing to both Regolith or CRP, but a lot of work is needed. Inter-mod integration is a correct way for us all to develop, so this change would be benefitial for everyone.

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I support this. Cooperation is good for everyone, especially the people playing the game and using the mods. There should be more of this cooperating, it makes for a better experience for the end user.

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So what does it mean that this will deprecate OSR-X? I have a save from .25 - mks/TAC and KSPI (need to trans save to .90), will everything continue to work?

I'll be using Boris's current port release of KSPI.

Thanks Roverdude and all involved for all your work on this project! Things like this will really have a lasting impact as the game continues to develop.

Edited by Jarardo1
clarity

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