[1.x+] Community Resource Pack

[RoverDude]

No converter exists tho I expect someone could make one, tho that's not the scope of CRP (it's just a clearing house for resource configurations and Regolith map data).

[Nertea]

I've added all of the RF resources to the working document and corrected many densities. I'll try to start working on costs (note that I'll be referencing the LF price to the price of kerosene to generate CRP costs).

In the meantime, if you all could have a look and see if any forms/intermediaries are missing, or if there's anything you're thinking of adding in the future, might as well stick it in.

[Yemo]

Thank you for the clarification,

for my non-realism "(Re)BalanceMod", I m thinking about using only Hydrogen to prevent the conversion problem.

Thus I would multiply the values for liquid Hydrogen components by 4450 (density difference between Hydrogen and lqdHydrogen).

So that eg tanks would hold the same mass as before but more "units" (higher compression).

The advantages would be compatibility and ease of use.

The disadvantages are a minor decrease in realism and the cost differential, since lqdHydrogen is rated at about twice the funds per mass compared to Hydrogen.

Any input whether I m missing something or making an error is appreciated.

[RoverDude]

I don't understand the relevance or what you are asking, to be honest.

If you're using CRP you will have LqdHydrogen anyway. If you are not using CRP and rocking your own thing, then it's a moot point for this thread, other than to keep consistent (same way CRP keeps consistent with EL and TAC-LS to be neighborly).

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And thanks Nertea - will take a look

[michaelhester07]

I used this on my civilian popultation mod for the Food definition. There is a question I have though:

What resources are combined to make Food in most mods? I grabbed MKS and it's rather complicated (I'll figure it out eventually) but I want to keep balance with other mods that use that Food definition.

[RoverDude]

MKS converts from biomass. But then the question is where biomass comes from

Also depends on whether you care about closed loop, conservation of mass, etc.

Side note - are your Kerbals actual Kerbals or are they abstracted? This is the important bit

[kerbiloid]

Pardon me for jumping in, but maybe HeavyWater (D2O) could also be useful.

- An intermediate product for Deuterium/LqdDeuterium processing from natural water.

- A dense, stable and nonvolatile way to store/transport Deuterium.

- A co-propellant (with Uranium) for heavy water reactor.

[regex]

I've added all of the RF resources to the working document and corrected many densities. I'll try to start working on costs (note that I'll be referencing the LF price to the price of kerosene to generate CRP costs).

Is there a space for making notes? Certain of the resources may be doubled-up. For instance, I'm pretty sure that KSPI's H2Peroxide is the same as RF's HTP (although KSPI may be relying on its own certain purity whereas RF defines HTP as 95% IIRC).

[RoverDude]

Pardon me for jumping in, but maybe HeavyWater (D2O) could also be useful.

- An intermediate product for Deuterium/LqdDeuterium processing from natural water.

- A dense, stable and nonvolatile way to store/transport Deuterium.

- A co-propellant (with Uranium) for heavy water reactor.

No worries, it's really a matter of whether KSPI or NFT want that.

[Nertea]

Is there a space for making notes? Certain of the resources may be doubled-up. For instance, I'm pretty sure that KSPI's H2Peroxide is the same as RF's HTP (although KSPI may be relying on its own certain purity whereas RF defines HTP as 95% IIRC).

Yeah I asked earlier whether that was the case and didn't get an answer.

edit- D2O would be a moderator and I would abstract it for a heavy water reactor as part of the mass.

[michaelhester07]

MKS converts from biomass. But then the question is where biomass comes from

Also depends on whether you care about closed loop, conservation of mass, etc.

Side note - are your Kerbals actual Kerbals or are they abstracted? This is the important bit

My civie kerbals are abstracted. They count as a resource on your ship and only constitute as an actual kerbal when your recruit them. Funny thing is that the ship in stock actually loses mass when you recruit a kerbal as the crew of the ship has no mass but in EVA they weigh around 180kg.

I guess i can make my own closed loop. Right now it's an open loop system with no conservation of mass.

[regex]

Yeah I asked earlier whether that was the case and didn't get an answer.

Sorry, I don't think NathanKell or I are regulars in this thread (and I don't frequent #modders anymore) so it was probably missed. I am not actually suggesting combining the two since the mods may have different intended usages but it would be nice if notes could be made into comments in the final config file so that mod makers can make educated decisions about which resource(s) to use. If there is a good place, I will go through the doc later today/tonight and annotate the RF stuff, and any potential duplicates, where appropriate if you want. Edited March 2, 2015 by regex

[FreeThinker]

I've added all of the RF resources to the working document and corrected many densities. I'll try to start working on costs (note that I'll be referencing the LF price to the price of kerosene to generate CRP costs).

In the meantime, if you all could have a look and see if any forms/intermediaries are missing, or if there's anything you're thinking of adding in the future, might as well stick it in.

Could you for the moment please keep Biomass LiquidCO2 untouched and introduce a new resource LqdCO2 with 1 unit / L .. It's very important for KSPI

[Snarfster]

Hey all,

I am creating stock-a-like texture switching resource tanks and came up with a small issue. How do I convert from the density in the "CommonResources.cfg" to tank capacity? My current tank stores either 1600 units of MonoPropellant, or 1600 units of LiquidFuel. (This is based on comparable in game models). How would I convert this to Kerbonite or Ore?

I don't want to end up creating tanks that are essentially bags of holding...

Thanks!

[RoverDude]

Could you for the moment please keep Biomass LiquidCO2 untouched and introduce a new resource LqdCO2 with 1 unit / L .. It's very important for KSPI

In fairness, all of us are changing things that are critical to our mods. Like.. hardcover breaking changes. As such this pass is for 1.0 where everything will break to hell anyway.

I'd rather suck it up and have all of us adapt to the final form and not leave outliers for backwards compatability, given just how much we're sacrificing to get on the same page.

[Northstar1989]

Is there a space for making notes? Certain of the resources may be doubled-up. For instance, I'm pretty sure that KSPI's H2Peroxide is the same as RF's HTP (although KSPI may be relying on its own certain purity whereas RF defines HTP as 95% IIRC).

KSP-I Hydrogen Peroxide and RealFuels HTP are indeed the same thing. In fact, the RealFuels/KSP-Interstellar integration config (that used to be part of RealFuels until recently- when NathanKell removed it, stating that the development cycle of KSP-I Extended was too fast for him to keep up with) renames/replaces KSP-I Hydrogen Peroxide with HTP altogether.

Regards,

Northstar

[Northstar1989]

Aren't we going with 1 unit/Liter anyways, or did I miss something here? That seemed to be the general weight of opinion before...

KSP-I uses LiquidCO2 at 1 unit/Liter with realistic density. Isn't this the density the CRP definition of LiquidCO2 should be based on? If so, I don't foresee any problem with KSP-I using LiquidCO2, but rather it seems it's Biomass (which, does that mod still essentially generate reaction mass out of nothing?) which would have the problem...

Regards,

Northstar

[Northstar1989]

Also, the density of LiquidCO2 in the working document is currently listed as 770 kg/m³.

The density used by KSP-Interstellar is currently 1200 kg/m³, based on real-world density data (a bit denser than LOX, which it should be, considering its 37.5% higher Molecular Weight...)

Regards,

Northstar

[RoverDude]

Aren't we going with 1 unit/Liter anyways, or did I miss something here? That seemed to be the general weight of opinion before...

KSP-I uses LiquidCO2 at 1 unit/Liter with realistic density. Isn't this the density the CRP definition of LiquidCO2 should be based on? If so, I don't foresee any problem with KSP-I using LiquidCO2, but rather it seems it's Biomass (which, does that mod still essentially generate reaction mass out of nothing?) which would have the problem...

Regards,

Northstar

It would be LqdCO2 for consistency, with the expectation that folks would adjust their mods accordingly (again, this whole bit is for 1.0 so we all have time to deal with our respective changes). Sorry, given that we're giving up LiquidHydrogen for consistency the same is going to need to apply to LiquidCO2.

Nertea - go ahead and deprecate any Biomass resources that are not being used by USI/KSPI-E/NFT. Obviously we have Oxygen, CarbonDioxide, and Water tied to TAC-LS, and I'll plug in the updated Biomass number for... well... Biomass, since there's no reason not to use their number for the rest.

As to the others, if they decide to come to the party, then they can adjust/conform to the rest of CRP.

(edit)

For LqdCO2 density, that's up to FreeThinker to sort, or a combination of him and NathanKell if they use it in RealFuels (which I have no idea on)

[RoverDude]

Also - can we deprecate IntakeAtm? It's basically IntakeAir with checkForOxygen= false

MODULE

{

name = ModuleResourceIntake

resourceName = IntakeAir

checkForOxygen = False

area = 0.0131

intakeTransformName = Intake

}

What does KSPI use this for other than air intakes?

[Northstar1989]

It would be LqdCO2 for consistency, with the expectation that folks would adjust their mods accordingly (again, this whole bit is for 1.0 so we all have time to deal with our respective changes). Sorry, given that we're giving up LiquidHydrogen for consistency the same is going to need to apply to LiquidCO2.

Nertea - go ahead and deprecate any Biomass resources that are not being used by USI/KSPI-E/NFT. Obviously we have Oxygen, CarbonDioxide, and Water tied to TAC-LS, and I'll plug in the updated Biomass number for... well... Biomass, since there's no reason not to use their number for the rest.

As to the others, if they decide to come to the party, then they can adjust/conform to the rest of CRP.

(edit)

For LqdCO2 density, that's up to FreeThinker to sort, or a combination of him and NathanKell if they use it in RealFuels (which I have no idea on)

It's only the density I'm concerned about. And while the final say goes to FreeThinker, I think as one of the co-creators of the KSP-I Extension Config (who has contributed large amounts of research and significant amounts of code to the project, and been there since rather early in its development) I can safely speak for him when I say it's a concern for the mod whether we use 1200 kg/m³, which is the current density in KSP-I Extended, or 770 kg/m³, which is the density currently found in the working-document.

Also, RealFuels doesn't use LiquidCO2 at all (now to be LqdCO2- I don't think such a small name-change is really much of a sacrifice for consistency for anyone here...) it's a resource purely used by KSP-Interstellar Extension Config (it's not even found in base KSP-I as created by Fractal_UK, who is absent) for Thermal and Electric rockets...

Regards,

Northstar

[Northstar1989]

Also - can we deprecate IntakeAtm? It's basically IntakeAir with checkForOxygen= false

MODULE

{

name = ModuleResourceIntake

resourceName = IntakeAir

checkForOxygen = False

area = 0.0131

intakeTransformName = Intake

}

What does KSPI use this for other than air intakes?

KSP-Interstellar (in all its iterations) uses the IntakeAtm resource for Thermal Turbojets- which work in atmospheres without oxygen (because no combustion is involved in the propulsion system: Thermal Turbojets only require a heat-source in the form of a nuclear reactor or microwave receiver and an atmosphere of any possible composition...) This is important to propulsion on places like Duna and Eve- in fact I've designed SSTO craft for Eve that use Nuclear Thermal Turbojets for launch-stages (and Nuclear Thermal Rocket propulsion to reach orbit) before, and actually have flown Nuclear Thermal Turbojet aircraft on Duna as part of the Flying Duna challenge...

It's important that IntakeAtm be maintained as a separate resource from IntakeAir because it can be found in places IntakAir can't (specifically, Eve, Duna, Jool, and some of the mod-introduced moons with atmospheres). Without it, we have no way to make Thermal Turbojets work on these planets where normal jet engines shouldn't- it was introduced as a separate resource as a matter of necessity, and the need for it has not grown any less with time.

Regards,

Northstar

[futrtrubl]

Also - can we deprecate IntakeAtm? It's basically IntakeAir with checkForOxygen= false

MODULE

{

name = ModuleResourceIntake

resourceName = IntakeAir

checkForOxygen = False

area = 0.0131

intakeTransformName = Intake

}

What does KSPI use this for other than air intakes?

Air intakes for electric and thermal atmospheric propulsion, same as the propfans in USI exploration. It's needed as reaction mass in oxygenless atmospheres. Unless there is another way of course.

Edward

[Starwaster]

Air intakes for electric and thermal atmospheric propulsion, same as the propfans in USI exploration. It's needed as reaction mass in oxygenless atmospheres. Unless there is another way of course.

Edward

He just gave it to you.

There's nothing about the IntakeAtm resource that makes it work in oxygen-less atmospheres. That's a function of ModuleResourceIntake

[RoverDude]

It's important that IntakeAtm be maintained as a separate resource from IntakeAir because it can be found in places IntakAir can't (specifically, Eve, Duna, Jool, and some of the mod-introduced moons with atmospheres). Without it, we have no way to make Thermal Turbojets work on these planets where normal jet engines shouldn't- it was introduced as a separate resource as a matter of necessity, and the need for it has not grown any less with time.

Air intakes for electric and thermal atmospheric propulsion, same as the propfans in USI exploration. It's needed as reaction mass in oxygenless atmospheres. Unless there is another way of course.

Edward

As noted... I gave you the code that makes this completely obsolete. The stock ModuleResourceIntake already includes precisely the override you are looking for.

I already deprecated using IntakeAtm in all of the Karbonite parts and was happily flying around Jool last night. So either that flag did not exist when Fractal_UK made KSPI, or he simply did not know it existed (in fairness, someone pointed it out to me and after a test we all realized it worked a treat)... but in any case, the module is there, and has a flag already that renders the need for IntakeAtm completely obsolete.

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Hey all,

I am creating stock-a-like texture switching resource tanks and came up with a small issue. How do I convert from the density in the "CommonResources.cfg" to tank capacity? My current tank stores either 1600 units of MonoPropellant, or 1600 units of LiquidFuel. (This is based on comparable in game models). How would I convert this to Kerbonite or Ore?

I don't want to end up creating tanks that are essentially bags of holding...

Thanks!

Sorry, missed this earlier.

Tank storage is a matter of volume not density. i.e. a cubic meter of lead has a higher density than a cubic meter of aluminum. But both would fit in the same 1m x 1m box.