magico13

[1.4.1] Kerbal Construction Time 1.4.0.69 (2018-03-24) - Unrapid Planned Assembly

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Quick question: do building levels matter in this mod? Im asking as it could be neat option to have building levels impact stuff like: construction time, research etc.

With the default settings there are only a few places that building levels matter (you can have 2 build rates per VAB/SPH level). But I've also made it possible to totally redefine the whole KCT system to be entirely based on building upgrades if people want, which I discuss more in this post and the one linked in that post. In that second link I actually provide an example config file that totally replaces the upgrade point system with the Stock upgrade system.

I just noticed neither of those link to the guide on how to change those settings or what options you have, so here is a link to that.

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So even if that's a GUI overhaul, if that's the most requested then I'll find a way to make that happen (in which case, enneract I'll be contacting you again ;) )

I've been paying attention from the sidelines still. The work and decisions that are going into the API are a great start toward that.

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Alright, the poll is up! It addresses two things: 1) What should be the focus of the next update, and 2) How should I continue development.

I've put some of my thoughts into the poll options, but will elaborate a bit more here.

What should KCT focus on next?

- Integration with other mods, such as Kerbal Konstructs, Kerbal Alarm Clock, and TestFlight. This was my original plan for the next update.

- Improved/Reworked Simulations. The whole system needs rewritten since it's basically unchanged since the first pre-release over a year ago. The rewrite would allow you to start on other planets, would smooth the initialization, and would make the whole thing more configurable and make way more sense. Additionally, I can make it so you can start a simulation at any time, especially during and existing flight.

- The UI overhaul. This would be a lot of work to do and I'd need enneract's help for it, but the end result would be awesome. I'd have to rewrite about half of KCT or more (again) since I have too much going on in the GUI code that would need moved. There'd be almost no new features and I'd likely have to remove a few features to get everything to work with the stock GUIs. It might also break mod compatibility in some instances (imagine if two mods decided to take over a stock GUI. I've already run into trouble with other mods that take over the launch button). I'd expect this no earlier than the end of the summer (so, August).

- An API for other modders to integrate their mods into KCT. Pretty much no matter what I'm going to be starting on this, but if you all want me to focus on it as the primary component, I can try to kick out a fully functioning API. This will actually require changes that will allow for the UI overhaul in the future, and might allow for a different mod to do the UI overhaul while KCT remains with it's weird GUIs.

- Preset configurations. I was also planning on doing this soon and forgot to add it to the poll. Basically, since KCT is so amazingly configurable I want to provide several preset configurations that you can choose from at the start. This would move 99% of the configuration options into the save file (or save folder), aka the Game settings, instead of having the separate Time and Global settings. So you could have one save with really quick build times and another with slow ones. And you could have one save where all the rates are defined by Stock upgrades and another where they use the Upgrade Point system. Other mods could provide presets (like Realism Overhaul) and don't have to worry about overwriting your configs. Basically, this needs to happen eventually and if you want me to do this please choose the "This is not an option, it's another question" option (which is really another question ;))

The second question: How should I (magico13) handle future development of KCT?

- By myself. This is what I do now. I take your input and mix it around with my ideas of where to go next and I make that happen. Since I'm working on a PhD right now, I don't have loads of time to spend on new updates. But I also tend to interact with the community fairly often and don't have a habit of going dark, and I tend to take your suggestions and try to act on them. I think so far I've been a benevolent dictator :D This is by far the simplest method for me to continue with development, but it obviously has some disadvantages.

- Pass off KCT to another developer. I don't really want to do this because I enjoy working on KCT. I've brought it to the point it's at now and it's one of my greatest accomplishments. But I also know that I don't have the time to develop it into the amazing piece of software it could be. So I could put it up for adoption and let someone with more time, or more skill, or more vision continue development on it. But if that person falls short as well, it could totally kill the mod and I might not be able to come back to catch it before it falls. It's a risk, but it might have the greatest reward.

- Form a development team. This is kind of the compromise between the other two options, but brings with it it's own challenges. Organizing people is hard. Organizing people without ever meeting them face to face is even harder. And when they're at wildly different skill levels and have wildly different methods it can be a serious challenge. The mixed styles can result in a discontinuous feeling in the final product: for instance, the other developer(s) might want a stockalike feel for something they're working on and integrate it into the stock GUIs but I prefer making a new GUI where I know I can do what I want. Suddenly there's this big disconnect between these two elements, and that can honestly make it more jarring to interact with than my crappy GUIs. There have been games released in the past where different developers have worked on different parts of the game and none of it feels cohesive. Those games don't sell well for a reason. But, if we can all work together well, some really amazing things can happen from this.

- The question that follows from this is how big of a team should it be? Just two people, or should we go bigger? Two is manageable, but 5 or more could do a whole hell of a lot of work (Squad's game dev team is less than 10-15 people and they made this whole game)

Edit: The extra info included in the poll options are very clearly affected by my opinion, and for that I apologize. The poll likely won't be a totally fair poll as a result, so if people want me to rewrite it to be less biased then I can do so.

Edit 2: If it wasn't obvious, you can select multiple options. I will pick the top one or two to focus on (depending on how long they take to complete). If you pick UI overhaul, that'll be by itself, but I can probably mix the Simulation Overhaul and Other Mod Integration (as an example, there are other valid combinations as well).

Link to poll: http://strawpoll.me/4235203

Edited by magico13

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- Improved/Reworked Simulations. The whole system needs rewritten since it's basically unchanged since the first pre-release over a year ago. The rewrite would allow you to start on other planets, would smooth the initialization, and would make the whole thing more configurable and make way more sense. Additionally, I can make it so you can start a simulation at any time, especially during and existing flight.

...

- Preset configurations. I was also planning on doing this soon and forgot to add it to the poll. Basically, since KCT is so amazingly configurable I want to provide several preset configurations that you can choose from at the start. This would move 99% of the configuration options into the save file (or save folder), aka the Game settings, instead of having the separate Time and Global settings. So you could have one save with really quick build times and another with slow ones. And you could have one save where all the rates are defined by Stock upgrades and another where they use the Upgrade Point system. Other mods could provide presets (like Realism Overhaul) and don't have to worry about overwriting your configs. Basically, this needs to happen eventually and if you want me to do this please choose the "This is not an option, it's another question" option (which is really another question ;))

1) I was going to throw up a dev thread for Holodeck in the next little bit (once my finals are over), you were involved with the groundwork for it & compatibility with KCT was on my list of top priorities. I can get if you want to go a different direction with your simulations, but I also think that we were pretty much on the same page the last time we talked about it. If you want to 'skip' the simulation revamp, and give me an API hook to disable KCT's built-in simulations (as well as the couple other I'd need to make it work right), I'd have no problem with Holodeck being distributed with KCT (so that people don't have to download both).

- The UI overhaul. This would be a lot of work to do and I'd need enneract's help for it, but the end result would be awesome. I'd have to rewrite about half of KCT or more (again) since I have too much going on in the GUI code that would need moved. There'd be almost no new features and I'd likely have to remove a few features to get everything to work with the stock GUIs. It might also break mod compatibility in some instances (imagine if two mods decided to take over a stock GUI. I've already run into trouble with other mods that take over the launch button). I'd expect this no earlier than the end of the summer (so, August).

- An API for other modders to integrate their mods into KCT. Pretty much no matter what I'm going to be starting on this, but if you all want me to focus on it as the primary component, I can try to kick out a fully functioning API. This will actually require changes that will allow for the UI overhaul in the future, and might allow for a different mod to do the UI overhaul while KCT remains with it's weird GUIs.

...

- Form a development team. This is kind of the compromise between the other two options, but brings with it it's own challenges. Organizing people is hard. Organizing people without ever meeting them face to face is even harder. And when they're at wildly different skill levels and have wildly different methods it can be a serious challenge. The mixed styles can result in a discontinuous feeling in the final product: for instance, the other developer(s) might want a stockalike feel for something they're working on and integrate it into the stock GUIs but I prefer making a new GUI where I know I can do what I want. Suddenly there's this big disconnect between these two elements, and that can honestly make it more jarring to interact with than my crappy GUIs. There have been games released in the past where different developers have worked on different parts of the game and none of it feels cohesive. Those games don't sell well for a reason. But, if we can all work together well, some really amazing things can happen from this.

I think that there is a fourth option for the 'how should future development of KCT be handled', and frankly it is how I plan on approaching the contributions which I feel that I can make.

3IC0OVK.jpg

This is me saying that I want to try to do a 'UI overhaul' as a meta-mod. :D

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I don't know much about this holodeck project, but one thing I would like to say is that I was "running simulations" in KSP long before I discovered KCT by using hyperedit, and still like that level of control during my "sim time". I now use the KCT simulation function to have a funds cost associated with doing this, but still end up hyper editing myself to where I need to be for prototyping purposes. I feel that creation of an API for KCT will allow you to off-load some of the dev work, without having to create a large dev team. If it were easier for other mods like hyper edit or this holodeck project to hook into KCT then you wouldn't have to work on those bits as much.

Just my thoughts, either way, great mod, and been totally loving it. Can't wait to start my hardcore mode with KCT, RT, USI LS, and a few others.

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Well ok, that might solve all the problems then :P

Holodeck was essentially what I was going to do for the simulation overhaul. But ContractConfigurator has some nifty methods of creating a ship in orbit that I'd like to use rather than the HyperEdit inspired (*cough* acquired *cough*) method I'm using now. It could also be used to put a vessel landed on a planet. Basically you create the vessel, then you'd switch the scene to Flight focused on that vessel, which would already be where you want it to be. Smooth as ice and no random jerky toss into orbit. Normal launch simulations would work how they normally do.

I'd honestly rather rely entirely on Holodeck for simulations rather than having two methods of handling it (similarly to how I'm removing KCT's parachute recovery code and relying on StageRecovery in the next update).

If you want to do the UI as a meta-mod then I'll make the API happen (I was going to work on it anyway since some other people have requested it, but I might up the priority). I'll have to move a lot of stuff out of the GUI code for that anyway, so that should make your life easier.

We can talk about this more later. I also have finals coming up (one next week, some more the week after). Afterward I'll still be working, but for the early part of the summer I'll have a decent amount of freedom. At the end of the summer I'll have qualifying exams, so I might be missing for a month or so in preparation for those.

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I know I'd feel better with you 'at the helm of this mod' so to speak, I don't have a problem with other people contributing, when they can/are able/ wish too, but I feel the only time you should consider handing it off is if you plan to leave for good, or for a really long time. Your mod is one of my must have's and I know I can trust your development of it.

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- An API for other modders to integrate their mods into KCT.

- Preset configurations.

- By myself.

- Form a development team.

These were my options, explaining.

Doing the API changes and preset configurations, the end result should things easier for further improvements.

Including the UI change and improved simulations.

Keep control, its your baby afterall, You've been the most generous dictator :D

But also accept other people willing to help, I don't know how its done right now, but tools like github are really helpful for people that commit little bits of code at a time.

Take a look at basically every linux system out there, is the collaboration of several different people all around the world, it should be a big mess, but turns out quite ok.

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@Gfurst, I think that's pretty much how it's going to turn out (or similar to it). KCT has been hosted on GitHub for about a year now and I've on occasion had people submit fixes or improvements (mostly enneract). That might be a bit more frequent in the coming weeks/months.

The API is currently winning, probably due to enneract's post a page back, so that will likely be my first target. That will then open things up so that enneract can do the GUI overhaul as a meta-mod and HoloDeck can take over as the simulation provider (the way HoloDeck worked last time I tried it, in January, was pretty nice. A definite improvement over KCT's current system). We're sort of building our own little "constellation" it seems (like USI's Constellation of mods), with mods built for one main purpose but all communicating together. It's possible that other parts of KCT will split into separate mods later down the line as they grow too big for KCT.

Like you said, the changes made for the API will likely streamline future development, which is a good reason to do it sooner rather than later. I might do presets at the same time since it might not be too hard to add it in. The next thing that's winning is integration with other mods, which will likely wait until after the API comes out since other mods might instead integrate with KCT, but I might do some of that at the same time as the API. Kerbal Konstructs is the biggest one (and most challenging), but the places where there are conflicts were designed for future KK support, so it shouldn't be too bad.

May/June look like they're going to be very interesting times for KCT :D

E: Might as well throw CrewQ into that mix and call the whole thing the Space Time Continuum of mods. (cause KSP is a space game, and they all focus on time as a resource, except StageRecovery and my modlets, but shhhh :P)

Edited by magico13

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What should KCT focus on next?

- Integration with other mods, such as Kerbal Konstructs, Kerbal Alarm Clock, and TestFlight. This was my original plan for the next update.

- The UI overhaul. This would be a lot of work to do and I'd need enneract's help for it, but the end result would be awesome. I'd have to rewrite about half of KCT or more (again) since I have too much going on in the GUI code that would need moved. There'd be almost no new features and I'd likely have to remove a few features to get everything to work with the stock GUIs. It might also break mod compatibility in some instances (imagine if two mods decided to take over a stock GUI. I've already run into trouble with other mods that take over the launch button). I'd expect this no earlier than the end of the summer (so, August).

- An API for other modders to integrate their mods into KCT. Pretty much no matter what I'm going to be starting on this, but if you all want me to focus on it as the primary component, I can try to kick out a fully functioning API. This will actually require changes that will allow for the UI overhaul in the future, and might allow for a different mod to do the UI overhaul while KCT remains with it's weird GUIs.

- Preset configurations. I was also planning on doing this soon and forgot to add it to the poll. Basically, since KCT is so amazingly configurable I want to provide several preset configurations that you can choose from at the start. This would move 99% of the configuration options into the save file (or save folder), aka the Game settings, instead of having the separate Time and Global settings. So you could have one save with really quick build times and another with slow ones. And you could have one save where all the rates are defined by Stock upgrades and another where they use the Upgrade Point system. Other mods could provide presets (like Realism Overhaul) and don't have to worry about overwriting your configs. Basically, this needs to happen eventually and if you want me to do this please choose the "This is not an option, it's another question" option (which is really another question ;))

I voted for these four. However, it looks like an API would take care of pretty much everything, especially if enneract would be doing the simulation piece for you (via API), and a GUI overhaul (also via API?). The other mod interactions will use the API (or, if not, you can eventually do your own integration, again via the API). The API seems to be a clear winner that will allow you to do what you want, when you want.

If ultimately you decide to go a different direction than Holodeck, you'll be able to do that too, when the time comes. In the meantime, the API lets you plug in things that others have done that you think meets your requirements for quality and integration.

The second question: How should I (magico13) handle future development of KCT?

Building the API lets others assist or not, at their discretion, and without necessarily your oversight. You can come back later and add your own touches of development and add on to your mod, or you can let other modders handle it and let your users pick what they want. Honestly, it sounds like the API is the best case, win-win scenario. Once it is really in place, the more modular everything becomes.

We may eventually get into hassles with mods and add-ons of mods, but so much of that occurs now anyway.

Thanks for all the work you do! I think all of us really appreciate it.

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Beta testing was going well so I decided to do the full release. Not too much changed from 1.1.5, just a couple GUI fixes and other bug fixes. The complete changelog is below.

IMPORTANT NOTE: StageRecovery is now required for parachute based recovery of parts into the inventory. I warned you all about this before the release as well. It's totally optional if you don't care about recovering parts from dropped stages and KCT can work just fine without it.

Changelog:

v1.1.6.0 (4/29/15)

- Update for KSP 1.0

- KSC Upgrade time halved by default

- KSC building upgrades now wait until you reenter the Space Center scene to complete

- Removed chute based part recovery, now requires StageRecovery for that

- Removed April Fool's joke references

- Possible fix for random explosions that happen when switching vessels during simulations

- Improved functioning of the KCT toolbar button+GUI

- Windows that are meant to be centered are going to be centered, $DEITY damnit!

- Build List is (again) movable when using Blizzy's toolbar

Also, I think all of you are wonderful people and I couldn't have asked for a better community to work with!

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pssst, the version number in the downloads section is still .90. Kinda confused me for a bit. Great mod, by the way!

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pssst, the version number in the downloads section is still .90. Kinda confused me for a bit. Great mod, by the way!

Oops, fixed! Thanks :)

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All I really need now is remote tech and I can start my career.

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Ohhhh yeah. After taking nearly a year off of KSP I'm so happy all the good mods are still here. I started a test career game a few days ago and realized something. When using KCT, I built "series" and "classes" of rockets. I organized everything. I had light lower stages, medium upper, command pod/service configurations, etc etc etc. All nice and neat. I even had a special "rescue" detachment of older but capable fully constructed launch vehicles standing by for emergencies. Perfectly planned and executed missions were the ultimate victory. Getting that last component built before a major transfer window passes is my idea of intensity.

So for these few days without KCT my designs have been a mess. I mean.. when ships can be built instantly and tech researched in seconds, organization doesn't really pay off. Things get "gamey". I have a new design for every mission. I quickly forget which designs were successful enough to warrant a multi-vessel construction queue. No rockets get honored with my "special" names I reserve for workhorses. It's like the a part of the soul of the game was sucked away..

This just shows you how much KCT fundamentally changes the entire game. It's wonderous..and especially for those like myself that prefer the design, planning of missions, and progression of a space program over flight sim. Wonderful mod as always magico, and thanks for all your hard work and labor of love.

KSP wasn't quite my dream space game until this mod. :)

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Yeppp, right now the new tech tree and progression of career mode is killing it for me. The game starts hard and limited. Its pretty much annoying at the very least. I'm going to wait for mods to settle with the new version, maybe an redesign of the tree, and then try again.

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Beta testing was going well so I decided to do the full release. Not too much changed from 1.1.5, just a couple GUI fixes and other bug fixes. The complete changelog is below.

IMPORTANT NOTE: StageRecovery is now required for parachute based recovery of parts into the inventory. I warned you all about this before the release as well. It's totally optional if you don't care about recovering parts from dropped stages and KCT can work just fine without it.

Changelog:

v1.1.6.0 (4/29/15)

- Update for KSP 1.0

- KSC Upgrade time halved by default

- KSC building upgrades now wait until you reenter the Space Center scene to complete

- Removed chute based part recovery, now requires StageRecovery for that

- Removed April Fool's joke references

- Possible fix for random explosions that happen when switching vessels during simulations

- Improved functioning of the KCT toolbar button+GUI

- Windows that are meant to be centered are going to be centered, $DEITY damnit!

- Build List is (again) movable when using Blizzy's toolbar

Also, I think all of you are wonderful people and I couldn't have asked for a better community to work with!

*Also confirmed Tourists can be loaded into craft in newest version!

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I know I'd feel better with you 'at the helm of this mod' so to speak, I don't have a problem with other people contributing, when they can/are able/ wish too, but I feel the only time you should consider handing it off is if you plan to leave for good, or for a really long time. Your mod is one of my must have's and I know I can trust your development of it.

Same here. There should only be one captain even if they get some crew from time to time for long or arduous voyages.

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I just started a new career with KCT, i am using it mainly to make sure simulations cost money. However i encoutered a major bug. I can not launch anything anymore in the career mode. When i press the launch button and the flight window is finished loading, KCT sends me a message that i can now simulate orbits around the sun, and my screen is totally black, also my navball is empty. I appear to be in the middle of the Kerbol system, which is Kerbol itself of course.

So no one encoutered this before with KSP 1.0? I just removed KCT and now everything seems to be working fine but I really want to add the realism of costly simulations. Also to test a re-entry vehicle, i would need hyperedit or something to fix it myself.

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I just started a new career with KCT, i am using it mainly to make sure simulations cost money.

If you're trying to launch ships by clicking on the launchpad, that won't work. At best it will start a simulation, at worst it will cause issues like you described. With the full KCT active, you have to build the ships first and launch them through the main KCT window. If you just want simulations though, you can turn off build times in the settings (open the main KCT window in the Space Center, press the Settings button, then go to Game settings and uncheck "Build Times"). Then you can use simulations by clicking the KCT button in the editor, but you can launch vessels like normal with the launch button or through the launchpad.

You might want to restart your game after turning off build times, but it should be fine if you don't. If you're still having issues, let me know!

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I think I found a bug. If you have "Instant KSC Upgrades" disabled, and you purchase an upgrade, you'll lose the funds you spent and won't get the upgrade if you're in flight when the upgrade is supposed to happen. Maybe this is a known issue but figured I'd report it just to be safe.

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I think I found a bug. If you have "Instant KSC Upgrades" disabled, and you purchase an upgrade, you'll lose the funds you spent and won't get the upgrade if you're in flight when the upgrade is supposed to happen. Maybe this is a known issue but figured I'd report it just to be safe.

It is not a known issue, so thanks for the report! It should be that when you turn on Instant KSC Upgrades any in-progress upgrades should complete right then and there. If that's not the case then I'll have to fix that.

Hey there guys, Just wanted to throw in here, I've made a suggestion thread for a career mode overhaul, there is bit for KCT there too.

Just though I mention it here, and if you guys like the idea please support it: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/118076-Career-mode-Overhaul-for-better-progression-wink

I'll take a look at that later when I've got a bit more time :)

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It doesn't sound like it is any connection with turning on instant upgrades, but if you you have them upgrading over time, and you happen to be in a flight when the upgrade completion it supposed to trigger, the upgrade fails to be provided. I will try and get this condition to happen today and see if I can duplicate this.

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