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[1.2.2] B9 Aerospace | Release 6.2.1 (Old Thread)

bac9

By bac9
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MisterFister

MisterFister

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Anybody can help me on these ones? Please!

I don't "know," but I have some ideas on your issues.

With respect to the inversion of your flap mirroring -- it sounds like you're dealing with rotational symmetry (as in the VAB) instead of longitudinal symmetry (as in the SPH.) I run a mod called EditorExtensions, available at http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/38768-0-24-Editor-Extensions-v1-3-19-Jul-2014-(EdTools-Editor-Tools-replacement), which allows the tab key to switch function between the two modes while remaining in the same editor scene. It's useful in both the SPH and the VAB scene. When designing payloads for spaceplanes, I can go the SPH where the plane is saved in the craft list, put myself in artificial VAB-mode, design my satellite, save it as a subassembly, and then hit tab to switch back into SPH mode before loading up my plane. Load the new subassembly payload, place it, check my CoM / CoT, and I'm good. Opposite, I can use the VAB, design a properly longitudinal rover with my tab key in artificial SPH-mode, and then switch to VAB mode before installing it as a payload on a vertical rocket. The differences in the modes have always been subtle. Even if you don't run the mod that I linked to here, I suppose it might be possible that something else is skafoozed and the symmetry-mode has been switched. If that is the case, it sounds like the underlying problem would be rather tedious to troubleshoot down to. At any rate, it doesn't sound normal.

As for the collider edges so you can surface-attach stuff to the leading edge of the wings. Well, not to advertise, but that mod above has some functions that could mitigate your inconvenience slightly (a rudimentary, semi-reliable vertical snap function, or controlling the angle increments of the default horizontal snap) but generally, just use the WASDQE keys with the shift key. Setting your mouse to a higher resolution may help, too, or using a higher precision mouse pad (or just cleaning the gunk from the sensor and mouse surface -- if you own pets, you'd be surprised where the cat hair and dog hair can end up.)

And on struts. I've always been under the impression that struts DO increase joint strength, though you might be incidentally correct with respect to the fact that they might not be able to strengthen a joint infinitely. The invisible struts are the exact same thing, simply with an intentionally-omitted texture. For hiding the struts internally, if you're referring to the internally-clipped strut end points, that's just really detailed control of the scroll and zoom functions while assembling them. If your mouse doesn't have a scroll wheel, replace your mouse right away, and use that scroll wheel to zoom inside your parts to make internal strut attachments.

And finally, I'm not sure what the diffs are between the control surfaces. Run some FAR-tests on them and find out. At this point, I'm willing to believe that it's just a difference in texture.

Hope that helps! And if someone else sees an error in my advice here, please set me straight.

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Kitspace

Kitspace

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Thank you! That means that I got it right the parts are not mirrored but just flipped over and that is why they are different!

I had a thought about maybe something of that sort a couple of posts ago.

It happens to me with just a fresh copy of the game and the current version of the pack and its required mods. Nothing else but the part angle display mod. You can see it in the corner. It does not affect it as the problem was there before it was installed.

If it is a known bug does anybody know how to deal with it or fix it? Maybe a plugin or a builder utility of some sort? I know about the editor extensions but I guess that is not the case because as far as I have notced yet all other parts are mirrored properly.

Same with the vertical takeoff engines. One of them is always upside down for me.

Number one on the picture is the speedbrake example where you can clearly see that the wing on the left is slightly different from the wing on the right. All parts on this picture are attached with symmetry.

Number two is an example of a part that is supposed to be put onto the leading edge of the wing like a turboprop mount or something of that sort. The problem is that it is extremely hard for me to make it face forward because the rotation axes are weirdly inverted when the part is surface attached to the wing and its attitude is practically uncontrolable. Is there a way to see its attitude and rotate it in some sort of global coordinates or coordinates related to this particular part only and not related to the surface of the part it is attached to?

Screenshot.png

Edited by Kitspace
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Kitspace

Kitspace

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Sorry which part of this exactly do you mean?

The main problem for me is still symmetry.

Chris says that it does not happen for him and feriofukada says that it did happen in his case at some point but it does not happen now so it means this can be fixed somehow.

Edited by Kitspace
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K3-Chris

K3-Chris

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The symmetry in B9 isn't somehow different from how the stock game does it, no idea still what your specific problem is but it's sounding less and less B9 related.

Get EditorExtensions and Part Angle Display for better editor controls.

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MisterFister

MisterFister

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Editor Extensions: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/38768-0-24-Editor-Extensions-v1-3-19-Jul-2014-(EdTools-Editor-Tools-replacement)

Part Highlighter: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/50143-0-23-5-Editor-Part-Highlighter

Part Angle Display: http://kerbal.curseforge.com/ksp-mods/220831-part-angle-display

RCS Build Aid: http://kerbal.curseforge.com/ksp-mods/220602-rcs-build-aid (just because)

TweakScale: http://kerbal.curseforge.com/ksp-mods/220549-tweakscale

StageRecovery: https://kerbalstuff.com/mod/97/StageRecovery

These are the links that I consider either very useful or downright essential (depending on the mission profile) for use within the editor. Of particular note, the first one allows you to essentially build all craft from a single game scene (either all from the VAB or all from the SPH) which has the benefit of making all of your saved craft and subassemblies be visible within the same editor -- no more having to exit the SPH to go to the VAB to find your craft files! Or worse, having to design a space-only subassembly (with rotational / VAB symmetry) save it, tab out, copy the subassembly folder from your VAB to your SPH, to go back in, exit the VAB, enter the SPH, and then find it in your subassembly folders to load it into a spaceplane cargo hold. It seamlessly launches to the correct instance of Runway / Launchpad from the same building, too, if you were going to ask.

Lemme know how these work out for you.

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bac9

bac9

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Release 5.2.2

Taverius Worked On Everything Again Edition

zqw5lt0.pngr5ws7xH.pngAXkQOlc.png

• R&D node changes: Many parts have had their tech nodes adjusted to be more in line with the positions of other parts.

• A1/4/8 Spotlights moved to 'electrics' with stock spotlights.

• Basic nosecone to moved to 'aerodynamicSystems'.

• Infodrive moved to 'start' node.

• SNM Strut moved to 'generalConstruction' with the SN strut.

• Ladders and Railings moved to 'advExloration' together with stock ladders.

• VS1 engine and nosecone moved to 'actuators'.

• MT1 RCS tank moved to 'advFlightControl' together with small stock radial RTS tank.

• R1A AirCS moved to 'specializedControl'.

• R1 and R5 RCS blocks moved to 'advFlightControl' with stock RCS blocks.

• R12 moves to 'largeControl'.

• HL Cockpit moved to 'heavyAerodynamics' with the rest of the HL fuselage system.

• MK2 cargo bays moved to 'supersonicFlight' with the rest of the MK2 parts.

• 2.5m rocket parts (T2/M2) moved 'specializedConstruction'.

• EM Engine Mount moved to 'aerodynamicSystems'.

• Small airbrakes moved to 'flightControl'.

• DSIX moved to 'supersonicFlight'.

• DSI moves to 'aerodynamicSystems'.

• MSR Stack Separator moved to 'advMetalworks'.

• M27 command pod moved to 'composites'.

• All HX parts except URC generator moved to 'experimentalRocketry'.

• Added agency images to ATM exclusions.

• Adjusted some costs to correct a rounding error in our formulas.

• Added switchable fuel tank to Y1 endcap.

• Fixed bottom node size on HL 2.5m adapter.

• Added Deadly Reentry support.

• Fixed model offset on HX Hub Support.

• Increased decoupler force, grab force on HX Docking Nodes.

• Increased HX connection strenghts.

• Increased HX Hangar/Side Adapter connections even more.

• Changed title of MK2 nosecones to MK1.

• Increased connections strenghts on PodJets and pylons.

• Changed title of podjet pylons.

• Tweaked Jet, SABRE sound FX.

• Updated CrossFeedEnabler to v3.0.2

• Fixed wrong FAR/NEAR drag on HL Side Adapter.

• Fixed lack of IntakeAir tank in S2W intake under FAR|NEAR.

• Fixed CoL offset on HW21 wing (FAR 0.14.2)

• Fixed base cost on MFT tanks.

• Disabled cost calculations with MFT on cockpits and LF-only crew tanks.

• Updated ModuleManager to v2.4.4.

• Fixed flag transparency on HL, MK2, S3 cockpits and MK2 cabin.

• Numerous tweaks to ModuleManager syntax in files.

Edited by bac9
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AetherGoddess

AetherGoddess

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What about fixing those parts that are still asymmetric and the wings in particular so this bug will not cause any problems?

Or maybe what about using this plugin?

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/90543-PLUGIN-WIP-Mirror-symmetry-for-asymmetrical-parts

wouldn't that double memory requirements? these parts are already enough to crash KSP by themselves without management. let's no go making the problem worse.

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MisterFister

MisterFister

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Meh. I think the person you quoted was actually attempting to suggest that the engine be modified to allow axis-inversion or somesuch, allowing you to do things like turning a part inside out. (A left-hand glove, turned inside out, will fit on the right hand.) Easier said than done, I'll grant, but if done well it would reduce or eliminate the need to actually model (and load textures for) externally-inverted parts.

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bac9

bac9

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What about fixing those parts that are still asymmetric and the wings in particular so this bug will not cause any problems?

Or maybe what about using this plugin?

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/90543-PLUGIN-WIP-Mirror-symmetry-for-asymmetrical-parts

Exactly the same thing can be accomplished using existing mesh changer functionality from Firespitter.dll, but we don't have plans for parts like shielded wings that would require it, at least at the moment.

As about the bug, it's caused by issues with Squad attachment code, not by parts themselves, so mirrored varieties won't help with anything.

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Kitspace

Kitspace

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We don't have any, and will never have any, externally-inverted parts.

Mirroring B9 parts is working as intended within the framework of how KSP symmetry works, and that's the end of the issue.

If the part mirroring works as intended and there is no issue then what is wrong with the wings on the picture above that are quite obviously different from each other when they are obviously not intended to be this way?

Edited by Kitspace
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bac9

bac9

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If the part mirroring works as intended and there is no issue then what is wrong with the wings on the picture above that are obviously different when they are obviously not intended to be this way?

We really have zero control over that. Wing parts are perfectly symmetrical, there is nothing about their shape that would make them uneven on rotation, so it's obviously some error with the way Squad attachment code drops those wings.

It's like the bug with uneven drag on supposedly symmetrical parts (which is by now ignored by more than a year), - it can only be solved on Squad side.

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Kitspace

Kitspace

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Most of the parts out there including the pack are symmetrical so this bug is not that noticeable but there are some complex parts that do have to have different separate models for the left and right sides and unfortunately this wing is one of them as maybe by mistake but its top side is different from its bottom side at least near to the root. Just look at the picture it is very clearly seen there.

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AetherGoddess

AetherGoddess

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Most of the parts out there including the pack are symmetrical so this bug is not that noticeable but there are some complex parts that do have to have different separate models for the left and right sides and unfortunately this wing is one of them as maybe by mistake but its top side is different from its bottom side at least near to the root. Just look at the picture it is very clearly seen there.

you say that, but i spent few minutes staring at the little circles and i can't see anything except the slight deflection of the aerobrakes, but isn't that the connection order bug in Tav's signature?

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petros_a_l

petros_a_l

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Taverius if it is not a chore could you please explain to me what is this for?


@PART[B9_Engine_Jet_Pod_Small] {
    @RESOURCE[IntakeAir] {
        intakeAirRatio = #$/MODULE[ModuleResourceIntake]/area$
        @intakeAirRatio /= 0.01
        @amount *= #$intakeAirRatio$
        @maxAmount *= #$intakeAirRatio$
        !intakeAirRatio = delete
    }
}

Great job by the way guys to all three of you!

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MintCondition

MintCondition

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So I'm trying to integrate the big landing legs and whenever I do, the thing bounces like a beast on the launching pad. When the physics initializes, the craft leaps into the air (and tries to fall over). It's only through cat-like reflexes - And SAS - that I can get it to not fall over. Why? And how can prevent it?

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MisterFister

MisterFister

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Most of the parts out there including the pack are symmetrical so this bug is not that noticeable but there are some complex parts that do have to have different separate models for the left and right sides and unfortunately this wing is one of them as maybe by mistake but its top side is different from its bottom side at least near to the root. Just look at the picture it is very clearly seen there.

Actually, sorry, but no. Your picture is way too small of a thumbnail to impart any meaningful information. *shrug*

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