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The 0.25 Waiting Room, now boarding passengers heading to Hypetown

Rowsdower

By Rowsdower
in KSP1 Discussion

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What Hype Vehicle Would You Rather Ride In?  

735 members have voted

  1. 1. What Hype Vehicle Would You Rather Ride In?

    • Shuttle
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      110
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Duke23

Duke23

Posted
Posted

The .24 (not typo) hype train just literally crashed my phone. I was watching the video of it on the last page and went to hit share in Chrome (for the page not the video specifically) and my phone froze. On restart it kept saying system process error or something. I just had to factory reset... Thanks, hype train. :(

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Majiir

Majiir

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My plea to Squad and You:

Please don't do this. Hyping updates is (clearly) a lot of fun, but it makes things harder on Squad and modders.

Why, Majiir? You make no sense!

Because when updates are hyped this much, Squad comes under immense pressure to release the game "on time" (even though no release date is promised) and it means that lots of important features and bug fixes get swept under the rug. These issues could be revisited during the next cycle, but since that update is also hyped, they take the back seat to more pressing issues and... they never get fixed.

This makes things particularly difficult for modders, because we go months or years with frustrating bugs that are always promised for "the next update" and never arrive.

So, please, instead of hyping the update and pressuring Squad, ask for a high-quality release. Ask for updates which crush the outstanding issues lists.

But Majiir, Rowsdower started this!

Yes, he did. He also doesn't have to cope with the resulting mess created in the KSP codebase.

Cheers,

Majiir

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Franklin

Franklin

Posted
Posted
My plea to Squad and You:

Please don't do this. Hyping updates is (clearly) a lot of fun, but it makes things harder on Squad and modders.

Why, Majiir? You make no sense!

Because when updates are hyped this much, Squad comes under immense pressure to release the game "on time" (even though no release date is promised) and it means that lots of important features and bug fixes get swept under the rug. These issues could be revisited during the next cycle, but since that update is also hyped, they take the back seat to more pressing issues and... they never get fixed.

This makes things particularly difficult for modders, because we go months or years with frustrating bugs that are always promised for "the next update" and never arrive.

So, please, instead of hyping the update and pressuring Squad, ask for a high-quality release. Ask for updates which crush the outstanding issues lists.

But Majiir, Rowsdower started this!

Yes, he did. He also doesn't have to cope with the resulting mess created in the KSP codebase.

Cheers,

Majiir

Product message boards (and other social mediums) function as customer service and brand awareness vehicles. Keeping existing customers engaged, having a FUN! landing page for potential customers, while mitigating volleys of complaints are three pillars of Strong Brand Marketing. Generating excitement over updates, new versions, a new hat, is a very common tool to keep customers talking and interested in a product. Without interest, attention wanes between releases, making for soft sales.

Squad has its roots in marketing, they know what they're doing (I'd go so far to say their marketing is great, but it's not hard to sell a good product), but they also aren't shy of delaying releases if they think the product suffers with each version. .24 was delayed by a month because they thought it was half-baked.

Short answer: Don't worry about it making the production sloppy, Squad only hears the hype through a bullets-only brand engagement filter that Rowsdower provides. They're not actually here, that's the engagement illusion.

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Majiir

Majiir

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Short answer: Don't worry about it making the production sloppy, Squad only hears the hype through a bullets-only brand engagement filter that Rowsdower provides. They're not actually here, that's the engagement illusion.

The developers are well aware of what's said here. What I said about releasing under pressure wasn't hypothetical; I've seen it. The devs communicate a lot with the pre-release groups, and they explain why these features are in, but these others are delayed. Some issues are delayed until "things calm down", but the truth is that never happens at Squad. They put themselves in a perpetual state of urgency, so everyone is either too busy working or on vacation to recover.

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Masetto

Masetto

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Posted
*snipped*

I think keeping one thread designated to hype really is more of a way of controlling the hype, rather than promoting it.

They started experimentals on their own volition, not because people were clamoring for a patch. So I assume they've taken their time and are satisfied with the quality of it.

With that said, I do agree that bug-squashing should be top priority. I'd love to see more 64-bit stability, but my uneducated guess is that mostly has to do with the Unity engine.

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Majiir

Majiir

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Posted
Do you have specific examples/cases? Perhaps you're more aware of behind the scenes than I.

Those details are confidential. What I can say is that it's not just one or two issues, and it's not just the last couple updates. There have been a few issues where "number of updates since this was reported" got too high to remember, so I instead went with "number of community managers since this was reported". (Four.)

This thread is indeed a good outlet. I just want everyone to be aware that excessive release hype has a negative impact on modders; our issues are often the first to be backlogged. This makes development and maintenance a lot harder than it has to be. Also remember: Modders use nearly all the same systems as the KSP developers. If it's hard for us, it's usually hard for them, too!

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eataTREE

eataTREE

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Some issues are delayed until "things calm down", but the truth is that never happens at Squad. They put themselves in a perpetual state of urgency, so everyone is either too busy working or on vacation to recover.

So, in other words, games development (or, more broadly, software engineering generally) as it is normally practised? :rolleyes:

I think these official "hype" threads are a way of managing the hype that already exists, and ensuring that our expectations are set appropriately with accurate information. There is just as much hype (and a lot more rumors and ill-will) among fan communities for games where development is a closed process and communication only occurs through marketing channels. The amount of pre-release hype I see here seems positively rational and proportionate, compared to some other corners of the gaming world.

In games development (and again in software engineering generally) the most pressure to "get it done" doesn't come from community impatience, anyway -- it comes from the investors and money people, who are waiting for their ROI. I'd not worry so much about hype threads on the forum.

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Franklin

Franklin

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Those details are confidential. What I can say is that it's not just one or two issues, and it's not just the last couple updates. There have been a few issues where "number of updates since this was reported" got too high to remember, so I instead went with "number of community managers since this was reported". (Four.)

This thread is indeed a good outlet. I just want everyone to be aware that excessive release hype has a negative impact on modders; our issues are often the first to be backlogged. This makes development and maintenance a lot harder than it has to be. Also remember: Modders use nearly all the same systems as the KSP developers. If it's hard for us, it's usually hard for them, too!

Similar concerns have been brought up regarding minor inconsistencies in code before, but usually it's mitigated with the comment that at least right now, there are bigger priorities than non-game-crippling bug squashes. I appreciate your insight, though, it sucks that the mod [and dev] tools are suffering from kipple with the push for Exciting New Elements over more productive janitorial focuses.

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Rowsdower

Rowsdower

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My plea to Squad and You:

Please don't do this. Hyping updates is (clearly) a lot of fun, but it makes things harder on Squad and modders.

Why, Majiir? You make no sense!

Because when updates are hyped this much, Squad comes under immense pressure to release the game "on time" (even though no release date is promised) and it means that lots of important features and bug fixes get swept under the rug. These issues could be revisited during the next cycle, but since that update is also hyped, they take the back seat to more pressing issues and... they never get fixed.

This makes things particularly difficult for modders, because we go months or years with frustrating bugs that are always promised for "the next update" and never arrive.

So, please, instead of hyping the update and pressuring Squad, ask for a high-quality release. Ask for updates which crush the outstanding issues lists.

But Majiir, Rowsdower started this!

Yes, he did. He also doesn't have to cope with the resulting mess created in the KSP codebase.

Cheers,

Majiir

Thanks for the concern, Majiir. We think it's great that the forum and by process, the community can hit such a level of excitement in this stage of development. As it is, there's lots of room for how it's expressed. Some may want to discuss features and impact on future/past updates and there are threads for that. Some just want to goof around and let off unbridled excitement through build changes and other newly released info. That's why this thread exists. While the devs are aware of what goes on throughout the community (and not just in brief, Franklin) and yes, we all have felt the other side of what hype can provide, I wouldn't say that speculation on release dates is something that truly affects the course of development. If anything, it's crunch related to making sure that we have a fully running update with as little bugs as possible delivered in a manner that's respectful of internal scheduling. When things don't go as planned, we get real bummed about it, but at the end of the day, an update's going to come when it's ready, not when anyone wants or expects it to be ready. The fork's got to come out of the cake (relatively) clean, if you will.

What you mention below this with the "things calm down" comment correlates to the workload everyone has building up to those times. Say, someone can have 1000 different issues to work on three days before release - it's an exaggeration, but that doesn't really sound calm, does it? :) It's kind of the same way on my end, too. Dealing with hype and expectation can be tricky, but we'd rather the community show they care and bask in the excitement than be apathetic in any way.

Now can we all please move away from a bummer of a topic as marketing talk in this thread? We want the community pumped and having fun (yes, actual fun) everywhere, even in places we don't have a direct hand in. There's no crazier place to be these days than on a hype vehicle of choice.

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Whirligig Girl

Whirligig Girl

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I have the trump card.

My HypePlane can latch onto the HypeTrain's track, and quintuple track drift.

But if you actually do that, it's a violation of law. HypeTracks are owned by HypeRailTrans, HypePlane is JediTransport (right? at any rate they're different companies), so if your plane latches on, it's trespassing. And we will sue you!

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Trentendegreth

Trentendegreth

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Thanks for the concern, Majiir. We think it's great that the forum and by process, the community can hit such a level of excitement in this stage of development. As it is, there's lots of room for how it's expressed. Some may want to discuss features and impact on future/past updates and there are threads for that. Some just want to goof around and let off unbridled excitement through build changes and other newly released info. That's why this thread exists. While the devs are aware of what goes on throughout the community (and not just in brief, Franklin) and yes, we all have felt the other side of what hype can provide, I wouldn't say that speculation on release dates is something that truly affects the course of development. If anything, it's crunch related to making sure that we have a fully running update with as little bugs as possible delivered in a manner that's respectful of internal scheduling. When things don't go as planned, we get real bummed about it, but at the end of the day, an update's going to come when it's ready, not when anyone wants or expects it to be ready. The fork's got to come out of the cake (relatively) clean, if you will.

What you mention below this with the "things calm down" comment correlates to the workload everyone has building up to those times. Say, someone can have 1000 different issues to work on three days before release - it's an exaggeration, but that doesn't really sound calm, does it? :) It's kind of the same way on my end, too. Dealing with hype and expectation can be tricky, but we'd rather the community show they care and bask in the excitement than be apathetic in any way.

Now can we all please move away from a bummer of a topic as marketing talk in this thread? We want the community pumped and having fun (yes, actual fun) everywhere, even in places we don't have a direct hand in. There's no crazier place to be these days than on a hype vehicle of choice.

and this is why i love KSP. not just because of the great community, but the great staff as well. its the only game im even willing to post on the forums for :) one hypetrain ticket please :)

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