Why do all my planes roll?

[Zipmafia]

I just starting playing the economic boom update, and every plane I put together rolls within a couple of seconds. Maybe 1 out of 10 don't roll.

And it's not my COM, COT, & COL placement, the control surfaces on my wings just make me roll within a few seconds for some reason.

Anybody else having this problem or know a fix?

Edited October 8, 2014 by Zipmafia

[purpletarget]

It's fairly typical behavior as far as I know....generally seems to accompany physics kicking in as the craft gets dropped on the runway.

All I can really recommend, is hitting the parking brakes once you get control, and then take your time with the rest of your pre-flight checks.

[Axelord FTW]

Pics of your craft in the assembly building with CoM/CoT/CoL up and a pic of two of your plane while flying would help.

Otherwise, are those new planes you constructed from scratch or are those planes you had before .25 that just now don't work?

To be sure, you do mean roll and not pitch/yaw, right?

NEAR/FAR on?

EDIT: @purpletarget. I think he means axis roll, not rolling down the runway.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Axelord FTW
no need to double post.

[Zipmafia]

New planes from new parts. I have made planes for circumnavigation challenges. All stock, no mods.

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[MegaFlop10]

Try making the wheels a bit wider, maybe have some on the wings. For some reason, if your wheels are too close together, it'll tip sideways. It's like the plane is on a tightrope.

[Claw]

Your landing gear are angled outward and the landing gear base is really narrow. If you are going to have a narrow landing base, you must make sure your gear are straight up and down (perpendicular to the runway). Otherwise your plane will start to wobble back and forth till it flips over. I would recommend straightening them out and trying to get them further to the side on the fuselage.

Also, you can move your rear gear forward a bit more. Usually keep the white part of the landing gear bay lined up somewhere under the CoM marker.

Cheers,

~Claw

[purpletarget]

EDIT: @purpletarget. I think he means axis roll, not rolling down the runway.

So it would seem...pay no attention to the brakes then!

[tsotha]

That's what I thought he meant too.

I've always wondered why the plane started off down the runway before I fired up any of the engines.

[Zipmafia]

thanks everybody! I never seemed to have this problem before, so it was kinda confusing me that it was happening now. I got it figured out now. Wider gaps between the back wheels, and closer to the COM.

[ratchet freak]

you can also unlock steering of the front gear so yaw control can work on the ground

[Axelord FTW]

Interestingly, You can make it work with only two landing gear (wheels) à la bicyclette if you are itching for lowest mass possible. You need nimble fingers but it's possible (and fun). Landing is even worse (better).

[Wanderfound]

I've had a few aerodynamic surprises as well; the first one I put up had a strange pitching oscillation, and the second would roll like a drunken sailor on takeoff. The weird thing is that they were both very close in design to planes that were perfectly stable pre-update.

There are some subtle differences between the mod and stock SP+ parts that are going to take some getting used to. I think Ferram may have fiddled with wing mass, too.

[Alshain]

I've had a few aerodynamic surprises as well; the first one I put up had a strange pitching oscillation, and the second would roll like a drunken sailor on takeoff. The weird thing is that they were both very close in design to planes that were perfectly stable pre-update.

There are some subtle differences between the mod and stock SP+ parts that are going to take some getting used to. I think Ferram may have fiddled with wing mass, too.

Ferram had a bug, did you update? There was an issue getting planes up to speed in NEAR, not sure if it was in FAR too.

[Wanderfound]

Ferram had a bug, did you update? There was an issue getting planes up to speed in NEAR, not sure if it was in FAR too.

Fresh downloads of everything this morning, but no idea if that was pre- or post-bug (where is the bug mentioned?). Redownloading...

I've been enjoying Ferram's recalibrated aero failures, though; casually getting away with tricks that were guaranteed wing-rippers previously. He may have gone too far.

It seems like half of what I use most (RCS Build Aid, Kerbal Flight Data, etc) is reliant on Blizzy's Toolbar. Hope that gets up soon.

[xtoro]

Cuz that's how they roll....

Somebody had to say it!

[LethalDose]

thanks everybody! I never seemed to have this problem before, so it was kinda confusing me that it was happening now. I got it figured out now. Wider gaps between the back wheels, and closer to the COM.

You should also make sure the gear are straight up and down. When they're angled like you have them, it causes the physics engine to do weird things, and can lead to losing control of the plane on take off like in your pix.

[Padishar]

That's what I thought he meant too.

I've always wondered why the plane started off down the runway before I fired up any of the engines.

It is because the plane of the runway (and all the other ground in KSC) is totally "flat" so there is only one point where the surface is perpendicular to the gravity force. This one point is actually in the VAB so, as well as the slope down at the start of the runway and the slope up at the end, the whole runway also slopes slightly to the right...

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/84125-Sideways-slope-of-KSC-runway

[regex]

I've experienced some strange rolling behavior in stock during physics warp. The plane just suddenly rolls ten degrees to the right, then a bit later rolls to the left, then again. Not sure if this is just stock, though, because I don't fly the stock aero if I can help it, just checking out the latest release.

I've been enjoying Ferram's recalibrated aero failures, though; casually getting away with tricks that were guaranteed wing-rippers previously. He may have gone too far.

The wings were originally modeled as transport wings; now they are modeled after military airplanes. NathanKell was looking into a way to have both (think I saw it in a recent commit log) since the military wings would be heavier, meaning you couldn't really build gliders.

[Mandelbrot]

I've experienced some strange rolling behavior in stock during physics warp. The plane just suddenly rolls ten degrees to the right, then a bit later rolls to the left, then again. Not sure if this is just stock, though, because I don't fly the stock aero if I can help it, just checking out the latest release.

The wings were originally modeled as transport wings; now they are modeled after military airplanes. NathanKell was looking into a way to have both (think I saw it in a recent commit log) since the military wings would be heavier, meaning you couldn't really build gliders.

This saddens me. I hope there's a way switch it back. I'd rather have light, fragile things to take into orbit than heavy duty fighter-jet stuff, personally.

[Wanderfound]

I've experienced some strange rolling behavior in stock during physics warp. The plane just suddenly rolls ten degrees to the right, then a bit later rolls to the left, then again. Not sure if this is just stock, though, because I don't fly the stock aero if I can help it, just checking out the latest release.

The wings were originally modeled as transport wings; now they are modeled after military airplanes. NathanKell was looking into a way to have both (think I saw it in a recent commit log) since the military wings would be heavier, meaning you couldn't really build gliders.

I've been finding timewarp a bit more dangerous than usual as well, but it may just be my imperfect quick new designs.

The weight change is going to upset the balance of every existing plane design. The wings still flex under timewarp; you need strutting for aesthetics if you're flying a jigsaw winged ship that way. Otherwise we can dispense with the struts; major part count saving.