Squad's accounced there will be Resources in Beta- how should they go about it?

[JumpsterG]

Building on what I've written earlier, and on opinions and responses from others, I've refined what I'm thinking of as the simplest implementation for stock refueling. Some of this may just be a repeat in different words, but hopefully it shows a little more insight.

Refueling should be reflective of real-life proposals for ISRU

-Players, new and old, draw inspiration from actual space activities and will want to imitate what they see (or should wind up engineering similar missions without realizing it). Having a mechanic that has no basis in reality will confuse players and break immersion. A "YOU'VE RUN OUT OF FUEL! PAY X FUNDS TO CONTINUE!" system would fail this need. (I don't really think this is where Squad is heading, but it is a possible implementation).

Refueling should be obvious in its usefulness and in its implementation

-Similar to how the CLAW is immediately recognizable and can be used with no prerequisites for capturing asteroids (something in real life that would require much more complexity), a DRILL could be a one part system for handling refueling (handling the entirety of collecting the rocks, performing chemical processing, and pumping out desireables). It's use is immediately obvious and it's benefit (extracting fuel) and downsides (mass, power draw, possible durability considerations) are easily understood.

Extraneous parts should be avoided

-A new tank (or 3 or 10) for containing rocks (or other raw resource) will not be immediately interesting and will imply that some amount of the player's time will be spent hauling rocks, which have no use on their own.

-A converter part immediately follows from having tanks of rocks to provide something to DO with the rocks. Since it is just a chain link between an extraction tool and a pair of tanks, a player will see this only as a requirement and not something that provides a benefit.

The simplifying of refueling to a single part does not preclude complexity

-Though the DRILL might be just one part, that part's behavior can be made interesting in dynamic ways. Using the DRILL in different places should yield different types of resources. Being able to drill not only on planets, but on asteroids, and maybe even parts (poor Bill!) opens up more places the DRILL could be utilized for fun and profit.

-Just because there's no rock tanks and converters does not mean you don't still have to move around all that fuel! If building infrastructure is what a player wants to do, setting up drills in permanent places and creating fuel depots is definitely possible (and useful!).

The DRILL sounds like it would be tempting to stick onto any landing vessel since, hey, free fuel!

-The DRILL needs to require enough ElectricCharge, be massive enough, bulky enough, expensive enough, and high enough on the tech tree to avoid its use becoming too trivial.

I can just get fuel wherever I land, right?

-Spreading different resources out across different biomes would make the landing site for a mission crucially important (or necessitate roving solutions). Either by picking a biome that has access to multiple resources, or by straddling the border between biomes to ensure access to both's resources should be a consideration to a player. Liquid Fuel, Oxidizer, Monopropellant, and Xenon could potentially all be found at the same time in one rare biome, but more likely you'd find 1 or 2 resources in each one (or find ZERO useful resources in some barren places). Minmus' flats could be veritable frozen lakes of Liquid Fuel with nothing else present, while MonoProp and Oxidizer could be found up on the midlands, and the slopes might be useless for extraction. Balance discussions now involve deciding which planets and where on them are easier to perform ISRU missions.

Having a new mechanism in-game for distinguishing biomes would be useful for this!

-If different biomes have different resources, players need to know they're landing in the right spot!

So, how do we know which biome to visit?

-I'm trying to avoid adding parts and repetitive activities, so I'm hesitant to suggest a scanning mechanism like Kethane's... Instead, we could make use of our various science experiment parts to tell us about the composition of the biomes in question. Materials studies, mystery goo, gravioli detectors, etc. could reveal resources that could be extracted, and since we are already doing these experiments, it would not add any new tasks. It's worth mentioning that revealing the resource would be handy, but the biomes would likely always have the same resources throughout different saves and playthroughs so it's possible to just know ahead of time what will be where (especially if there is some logic to the placement of resources, i.e. Ice=Oxidizer).

So, how long is this gonna take?

-The action of resource gathering should be instantaneous or at least on the level of solar panel/RTG rates of generation. Time-warping on the active vessel should have the same effect as with solar panel/RTG ElectricCharge generation, meaning that filling any fuel tank should take just seconds of the player's time, while also allowing for in-game time constraints to factor in.

Chemicals don't work this way! What is this magic fuel I'm pulling out of the ground!?

-Hand-wavium mostly. Some simple flavor text in the DRILL's description could allude to the real-life equivalent chemical processes, but it's really just a game mechanic. Keeping it simple is preferable for the base game, with the possibility that modders can liven it up with realistic variations on the system as well.

Maybe I can drill some fuel near the space center and recover it for free money!

-Overpowered exploits should be shut down whenever possible. Specifically it should not be profitable to bring fuel back to the space center (or it should take a reasonable effort to get enough resources home to be profitable). I think it would be enough to make the fuels themselves less significant in the overall pricing system, so bringing back a full tank of gas would only net you a little bit more funds than coming home empty.

-JUST A DRILL? REALLY? Ok, maybe you can have air and liquid scoops/filters also. They would provide a similar role, collecting fuels from the biomes associated with flying in atmosphere or splashed down. Placing these parts up and down the tech tree could also be a nice way to introduce ISRU abilities a little at a time since each part could be limited in what they could possibly generate.

-Why just fuels? Can't we have oxygen and water, too? If Squad brings in life support which requires resources, then sure, this system would work for that too (I personally want the Snacks! mod to be a thing, in which case a greenhouse part with biome requirements would be amazing). I don't know if life support will be implemented this way or at all in the stock game, though.

Thanks to everyone for good discussion. I don't disagree that there's more than one way to skin a cat, so feel free to point out further problems and solutions. It may not be that Felipe and crew will be taking ideas from this thread, but it's still great ideas for yet another resource mod... (Maybe if I can squeeze in some time... lol)

[Threadsinger]

• Correct me if I'm wrong but Squad said nothing about mining resources. Golden rule in marketing: if a feature is there you advertise it. If you don't see a feature mentioned, it's because it's not there. Now of course, Squad is a software company with no background in marketing so... oh, wait...
  
• Everything, everything about implemented features so far has been about “making the game fun for the general public†and there are good reasons for that. If you're a geek (nerd? science lover) you've already discovered KSP and are happily playing with it. Need some fuel in Eelo orbit? No biggie. I'll build a friggin' SSTO 5-orange tank fuel delivery system that will land on Eve AND take off just for the hell of it (or to deliver snacks to Jeb). That's the mindset of the average player on the forum. As much as it's disliked on the forum, for Squad the sweet spot to hit is the audience that is currently buying Minecraft. Deep space refueling will be intended as a way to make things easier, not as a reason to ship 12,000 parts all across the Kerbin system.
  
• The mindset “if it's not realistic it's not fun†doesn't apply to everyone. In fact it's a fairly small group who will prefer features that make the game harder and require non-stop commitment to the game. And there are plug-ins to satisfy that group. On the other hand, for Squad it is very attractive to have a game that can be sold to everyone and why not? In the end everyone benefits from Squad having more resources available; as long as the game keeps selling in large numbers we'll see regular updates.
  
• Remember we have difficulty settings now. Maybe at 'easy' level fuel generation only requires (large amounts of) sunlight, and at level 'hard' it requires Kethane and Karbonite and you'll also have to process the Kuranium waste that is a byproduct of fuel production.
  

QFT, although I'd maybe aim a little higher to a casual sim crowd. . I do hope Squad keeps it simple; the casual, arcade-style gameplay was what drew me to this in the first place, and what has helped my friends and coworkers get into KSP. I use mods like RemoteTech, FAR, TAC, KSPI, etc. but only because I got to have a lot of fun blowing stuff up (with the occasional, joyous success!) with a fairly simple learning curve and decided I wanted more.

Well that, and the thought of never achieving cool sci-fi adventures was depressing as hell. Moving on.

A data point of one, but I doubt I would never have had this much fun, or self-committed to more "advanced" gameplay using mods, had it been very complex from the get-go. I know it wouldn't have had the same appeal to my friends and coworkers. A simple novel hook sufficed, and while I might not be the "average player on the forum", I think it's an important thing to keep in mind. Get new players in on the ground floor - more complex functions dealing with all the realism-ish elements some players might want can be better dealt with mods. Also, I fear if you try to make it too realistic, the standard of realism gets to be an untenable treadmill. (E.G. Guardians of the Galaxy vs. Gravity - which one likely has more criticism for its depiction of scientific processes then the other?)

[Endersmens]

I'll just leave this here.

http://yarr.me/c/666/13/think-space-the-next-frontier.jpg

Notice how asteroid mining could aid life-support.

Is there a way to prove all that information? I'm not trying to disprove it I'm just curious

[CaptRobau]

I think it's based on spectral and density analysis of asteroids. The light that bounces off an asteroid can tell you something about its composition and density analysis is also possible without getting super-close, so together they can come to the conclusion that there are asteroids who likely consist mostly of platinum-group metals, water ice, etc. That can be translated to a cash value, based on current transportation costs.

[Laie]

(regarding that asteroid mining picture) Is there a way to prove all that information? I'm not trying to disprove it I'm just curious

Don't know what you mean by "prove". But if you have water, you may stick in two electrodes, apply some current, and get hydrogen and oxygen -- in matching proportions for rocket fuel. Oxygen and water have other uses as well.

I'm not so sure about the platinum. Asteroids are comparatively rich in elements that are rare on earth. I don't know how rich and and how you'd mine it. Compared to the electrolysis of water, it's probably insanely involved.

notes: Atomic fuel cannot be gathered, it just last long.

Just to be clear: Over the lifetime of a (real-world) nuclear drive, the weight of the reactor core is miniscule compared to the weight of the propellant it will use. And the propellant (the stuff that gets tossed out to create thrust) is plain old hydrogen.

[tater]

"Prove" that water is the most useful thing for live space travelers? As was said, break it (a trivial school-kid experiment) into H and O, and you have life support gas (though O2 is recovered very well anyway), fuel, and oxidizer. The water itself is water. People (and presumably kerbals) need more water than food, though again, water is recovered very well. Growing food will benefit from water, however.

Edited October 21, 2014 by tater

[mattinoz]

For no real reason other than it would be funny to watch...

I think Asteroids should be basically a source of water (well other things as well... but that not important right now).

The miner would be basically a hot nuclear powered cone that is very heavy and can take a bit of and impact. So the goal is to get the miner in the path of the asteroid and let the asteroid crash through it and embed in the surface. Once there the heat of the nuc makes steam the collector facing the cold inky blackness condensers it back to liquid. To much pressure builds up and the release valves would fire which could work for you by bring the orbit more circular and easier to dock with to collect or could work against you depending on your piloting skills during the litho-acceleration maneuver.

With this there would be two other parts to the system a tank to collect the water (plus maybe a couple of steam engines). A processor to turn it into the other Hydrogen/Oxygen resources for the normal rooster of engines. Well and some way to pick suitable targets.

[herbal space program]

A fuel generator part that requires electricity to hydrolyze water or ice. That seems like all you really need to me! You need to land it on a planet in such a way that it can drill down into the ground, and it will generate fuel at a fixed, fairly low rate if it has enough power. It will fill whatever tanks are part of the same vessel. Fuel transfer to another vessel is through a docking port. If you want to refuel a ship that lands nearby, you'll need a rover with a tank on it and a docking port that is either mounted at the right height/angle or somehow adjustable.

[Pthigrivi]

This was the set-up I suggested a while back as a simple way of doing both life support and resources:

"

So this is an idea I've been thinking about for a few months now, namely a real-world way of making colonization simple and fun by adding H20 as an off-world resource. It could come in 2 forms, ice formations in deep craters and poles, and surface water around geysers. It could also perhaps be extracted from some off-world bodies of water like the oceans of Laythe. This water could be scanned and mapped from orbit, and would be limited enough to require some precision landing of heavy equipment. Once located, it could be extracted and refined into LFO using electricity, just as future real-life missions plan to. My idea is to not just have this provide fuel, but service life support as well.

New Parts:

H20 Detector: A long antenna used for mapping sources of H20 on other worlds, either from orbit or with rovers. Science could be earned from detecting it. Similarly, retrieving surface samples of water would have a science multiplier.

Drill rig: This should be an armature, perhaps 1.25m, and once a craft has landed it could be deployed, orienting and drilling into the ground directly below it. It should draw a decent amount of power, perhaps 2 gigantors to operate.

Electrolyzer: This should be a large and very heavy component, and should draw a lot of power to operate at full capacity, perhaps 4 gigantors at kerbin. Its basic purpose is to convert water and electricity into LFO. Once attached and operating, LFO tanks could be filled via right-click either from water tanks or directly from the drill rig.

Life Support Canisters: These should come in an array of sizes and shapes, in-line and radial. Each would could hold 3 resources, Oxygen, Water, and Snacks. Each will deplete slowly over time based on the number of Kerbals in the attached craft. As with electricity and monopropellant, crew modules could hold some small, nominal quantity of each as well. For the purpose of flexible mining operations, there should probably also be water-only tanks in a few sizes.

Greenhouses: Likewise with Electrolyzers these should be large and heavy. Like science modules they should also require 2 Kerbals to operate. Their main purpose is to use electricity (or sunlight when oriented properly) to convert water and oxygen into snacks. I imagine these could come in two forms, a 2.5m cylinder which rotates automatically like solar cells to face the sun, and a 3.75m glass dome. Inside I like the idea of banks of little plants that seem to grow pop-corn straight off the stalk. While operating, the snacks component of life support canisters could be filled via right click.

Fuel Cell: This should be a medium sized part primarily for on-the-fly resource conversion for long missions. A vessel with one on board could produce electricity and H20 from liquid fuel and O2.

I know there's been a lot of talk about these things in the past, but I think this could be an elegant way of accomplishing a number of things, and would add a huge level of late-game dimension to the game, and make real colonization fun and practical. I think it also opens a number of cool opportunities for clever resource juggling and real problem solving without a maddening number of variables to consider, and ties into real-world ideas about the future of colonization.

"

[Brotoro]

A. There are certain things I DON'T want to see:

A1) A small unit that pokes into the ground almost anywhere and refuels your ship.

That would be too easy. Off-Kerbin refueling should be more difficult. It should require an investment of effort so that the player will feel some sense of accomplishment. Anybody who doesn't want to do something that takes that effort is certainly welcome to ship fuel tankers out from Kerbin. But getting fuel from off-Kerbin sources should be at least as difficult (in the initial setup) as shipping fuel out from Kerbin.

A2) One resource makes everything.

You should not be able to magically make all your different needs (fuel, oxidizer, monopropellant, xenon, snacks) from mining one resource. No alchemy for me, thanks. There should be maybe three feedstocks needed to make everything (and electricity will be needed to run the processing equipment). There will be those rare and happy locations where the feedstock deposits overlap, sure. But elsewhere, you may have to move stuff around to make your goodies.

B. There are certain things I WOULD like to see:

B1) Scanning for resources.

I think it would be fun to have to scan a planet to locate some of the needed feedstocks. One instrument to scan them all is fine (spectrometer, cosmic-ray-excitation detector, pertinent geological feature recognition...you don't have to explain how it does all this stuff). Some resource locations will be obvious on some planets/moons (water on Laythe, water ice in Duna's polar caps, water ice on icy bodies). Some won't be so obvious and will require scanning (water ice pockets on Mun and most other bodies...even polar regions on Moho). Have the scan show its results in Map view when toggled on -- different shading patterns for each feedstock resource, and cross-hatched in those nice spots where they overlap.

B2) Fuel transfer hoses.

Please. Finally. Allow kerbals to stretch a hose between two ships some minimum distance apart for the transfer of resources. This would also be useful for players who just want to ship fuel tankers out from Kerbin to supply vehicles on other planets/moons.

C. So...What is liquid fuel, oxidizer, monopropellant, etc.? And where do you get them?

Oxidizer: I assume this is liquid oxygen. We have such clunky, heavy tanks in KSP that I assume they are sufficiently insulated for the longterm storage of LOX. You can get this stuff wherever an oxygen-rich resource exists. Primarily, this would be liquid water or water ice. Water is a common chemical in the cosmos, so it should be available readily (polar subsurface deposits on Moho; oceans/lakes and subsurface deposits anywhere near oceans/lakes on Kerbin, Eve, Laythe; most of the crusts of Minmus, Vall, Pol, Eeloo; polar caps of Duna; scattered subsurface deposits on Mun, Gilly, Ike, Dres, Bop, Tylo, non-polar Duna regions, and some asteroids).

Liquid Fuel: Judging from the tank volumes assigned to oxidizer and liquid fuel in KSP, liquid fuel can't be Hydrogen (and longtern storage of LH₂ is problematic, anyway). I'm going to assume that liquid fuel is methane, and that the Kerbol system formed with lots of non-biogenic methane that can be found in subsurface deposits on almost all bodies (and even in lakes on a moon of GP II). Scan to find the spots...poke in the drill...suck it up...PROFIT! Also, liquid fuel can be made anywhere on Duna and Eve from the atmospheric CO₂ if you have water or water ice (it's supplying the hydrogen for the Sabatier process...but we don't need to specify that).

Monopropellant: Could be Hydrogen Peroxide, but I'll assume that it's Hydrazine. To make it you need water (water ice) feedstock and a nitrogen feedstock (atmospheric nitrogen on Eve, Duna, Laythe, Kerbin; ammonia ice deposits on cold moons...and on warmer moons, these could be subsurface deposits...or some other nitrates...we need not be too specific).

Xenon: Can be separated out in TINY quantities from atmospheres, ices, or subsurface deposits of any of the other stuff...but you have to run through a lot of feedstock to get much Xenon.

The refinery module should tell you how fast it can process each of the four finished products (oxidizer, liquid fuel, monopropellant, Xenon) at any given location. There should also be a special tank that can be filled with water or ammonia feedstock that can be refined from locations where they exist and moved elsewhere for use by a refinery module.

Electricity will be needed to do the refining. I would like a nuclear reactor module (with extendable radiators) to supply energy anywhere sunlight is scarce.

[Ival70]

I feel like mining part should be similar to the role of the Mobile Processing Lab, in that it's big, heavy, and only really needed if you are planning an extended mission. I personally would love to see scanning added, It's fun and provides a bit of change from those boring low inclination orbits.

[Bartybum]

I wish for three resources, no more no less. I'd hope that these resources are all available in some amount per planet, and that for the sake of gameplay they only run out after a very long time (I'm in game years of continuous mining.) No idea on how they'd be implemented, I just want a little bit of realism as opposed to the one-thing-feeds-all mechanic that Kethane and Karbonite have.

[Tuareg]

A fuel generator part that requires electricity to hydrolyze water or ice. That seems like all you really need to me! You need to land it on a planet in such a way that it can drill down into the ground, and it will generate fuel at a fixed, fairly low rate if it has enough power. It will fill whatever tanks are part of the same vessel. Fuel transfer to another vessel is through a docking port. If you want to refuel a ship that lands nearby, you'll need a rover with a tank on it and a docking port that is either mounted at the right height/angle or somehow adjustable.

so from that moment you just have to add that one part to the craft and you can refuel it wherever you want. the game will be really interesting from that moment

[Laie]

so from that moment you just have to add that one part to the craft and you can refuel it wherever you want. the game will be really interesting from that moment

I don't see any point in adding a variety of drills or several types of refinery pieces. Anything that has to do with mining and refining may well be combined in a single part for all I care. However, I do expect (hope) that it requires a claw to connect, electricity to run, and a tank to store the output.

And of course, that part should have finite throughput. You may harvest 1200t of fuel from that rock, but it will be a while. Impatient? Then bring more refineries.

By the way, the devs have declared that they want to keep this simple. So I guess that we will only have one resource... and it may well be that we can only create fuel, but no monoprop nor xenon.

[JimmyAgent007]

All my wants have been pretty much made here already. However if I have a base for refueling, id like it to be able to handle all the resources. Maybe this means a dedicated drill for each resource (same drill part just several, each drilling to a different depth). We all generally like to make bases on flat terrain so those should be the richest areas or make a planets resources available everywhere and just increase power needs depending on depth. Hoses connecting the buildings if you dont dock them should be different, they work on a ship but for a base they should just run along the ground. Id also like snacks, colour to change based on where you grow them!

[Holo]

I just hope that it doesn't end up as magically being able to turn a single resource found almost everywhere into any type of fuel.

[Red Iron Crown]

I don't see any point in adding a variety of drills or several types of refinery pieces. Anything that has to do with mining and refining may well be combined in a single part for all I care. However, I do expect (hope) that it requires a claw to connect, electricity to run, and a tank to store the output.

This is my line of thought about this, for the most part. A single (heavy and power hungry) ISRU part that harvests and refines the raw material, and a lightweight scanner part for finding deposits. That would sidestep needing new tanks for the raw material and would help keep part counts down.

I'm hoping that liquid fuel, oxidizer, and monoprop are producible (and any life support resources if ever added). Xenon is enough of a specialized product that ISRU for it is not really necessary IMO.

I just hope that it doesn't end up as magically being able to turn a single resource found almost everywhere into any type of fuel.

No magic involved. Water can be processed into hydrogen (LF), oxygen (O), and hydrogen peroxide (MP) with relative ease in real life. How abundant water is in the kerbal solar system is up for debate, I would suggest not every body have it nor for it to be available in all locations on bodies that do. Inexhaustible deposits would be good though, to make permanent self-sustaining bases a possibility.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Red Iron Crown

[Jouni]

I feel like mining part should be similar to the role of the Mobile Processing Lab, in that it's big, heavy, and only really needed if you are planning an extended mission. I personally would love to see scanning added, It's fun and provides a bit of change from those boring low inclination orbits.

If the mining part is as small as the Mobile Processing Lab, it's going to get used in almost every interplanetary mission. A few tonnes of extra payload is nothing compared to the fuel requirements of the return trip. I'd rather see a mining/refinery unit as heavy as the orange tank, or even as heavy as the S3-14400 fuel tank.

[John FX]

I`d be happy with a processing unit and the current claw. Clamp onto a roid and go for a ride...

[Francois424]

Mostly what Pthigrivi and JumsterG said...

It needs to remain rather simple and fun to use them, and heavy/costly enough not be the "magical part of infinite range"

I am not as strong about life support, but I love the Idea of "snacks!", and the way it's been proposed is interesting as far as building a living, permanent, self-sustaining colony (one could think an enlarged greenhouse could act as a biodome for kerbals). I've been weighting getting into Kethane and other fun mods, but didn't feel like setting them up.

Looks like it's coming to town afterall.

The only problem that I have is that right now, the persistence of KSP is kept easy. A craft do not consume electricity unless being flown. And I like it like that because I often will go on a tangent (say a 2 months eve mission) before coming back to driving my rover on Dres. If persistence should change, especially with life-support included, it would force me to only play one mission at a time, which would suck. Beside that problem tho, everything's cool. If my crew doesn't eat while I am not playing them, that's fine... It does create another problem of setting a maneuver, switching to another thing, Time warp, and then return to my mission craft for a free ride... So any way you look at it, something goes sour (not that I'd abuse the trick, I don't right now with electricity, but still).

[artwhaley]

I'm not sure that talking about the parts is the best place to start on this. ISRU starts with science.

So my proposal is - several different biomes around the solar system CAN provide resources - be it fuel, oxidizer, monoprop, Xenon or mod added resources (like Life Support).

But, they should only be able to do so after the specific process for that biome has been researched.

With the way KSP works now, that would be a science tree unlock, I suppose. What I'd really RATHER see is a certain amount of science must be done IN THE BIOME you'll be collecting from before you can unlock the part that processes resources there. That makes a lot of real-world sense... until you've really studied Mars you can't design a system to make fuel there. It ALSO, without violating the sandbox nature of the game, creates a sort of 'quest' to keep more traditional gamers playing - "oh, a table of goals I haven't reached! I'll go land in all of these places with instruments so I can do ISRU missions!"

And that system could be as complex or simple as Squad (or the mod makers) want... Properly balanced you could create a situation where you can make Fuel and Oxidizer at Duna's poles after a well-equipped probe landing, but you can't figure out how to make Xenon(or Snacks!) there until you've completed a sample return mission.

In my opinion, an approach like this with unlockable processes and their associated parts puts a little more science in the game - there's a reason to go different places and do science beyond 'well, the ground is a different color.'

Art=

[Nuke]

i wouldn't mind having a multiple resource, no conversion system. resource locations would be biome based, each biome would have a list of resources which are available there, what their concentration is (this only affects extraction rate, resources are effectively unlimited because you could never extract enough to deplete an object the size of a planet), and what part is needed for extraction at that location. scanning would simply indicate what biome you are landed on or flying over. this might be mapped out, for convenience, but could be determined simply by doing science there. i believe biomes cover land and ocean environments, but atmospheric composition would be defined on a planet by planet basis. not sure how asteroids would be handled, perhaps they would get their own biome maps, or would just have a randomly generated composition as they are spawned.

key feature is that mining equipment is resource agnostic. it extracts whatever resource is in the area, provided that the mining equipment functions in that area. where a piece of mining equipment operates is also biome dependent. you might have ice drills for extracting liquids/gasses from icy locations, you might have soil processors for loose regolith, you might have a rock drill for hard surfaces, or simply a pump and hose for wet locations. intakes would also become resource agnostic, producing the local resources based on what atmosphere you are in.

extractors might not run for free. it would require a resource to operate (usually electric charge) which would be consumed as the part is extracting. some resources might need another resource during extraction, for example you might need a reducing agent to produce metals, or you might need lf/oxy to produce heat needed to melt ices. but ultimately the thing that comes out is what you were after in the first place with no intermediate resources or waste products to worry about.

in the end you have a system where you dont have a bunch of interdependent parts that you need on every isru mission. the minimum parts you need is one, an extractor. of course this means you cant scan and have to get in your rover and drive around to find the needed biome, and you can only mine at biomes your extractor works with. you can send a probe ahead and scan if you want, but its not required. if you want to set up fuel dumps all over the place you might need a fully decked out vessel with 5 kinds of extractor and a mapping scanner. you can bring everything but the kitchen sink so you can go anywhere and keep going, or use the bare minimum for a light flight and accept the limitations of your equipment, so how you play with it is up to you.

how to avoid making all this too easy? easy, dont put everything all in one biome. you might need to gather a reagent from one location to extract resources at another. you might find a sea of readily available hydrocarbons, but still need to find an oxidizer source, which may very well not be in any of the current object's biomes. you might need to land in 3 different places to do a complete refueling. if by some chance you find water and can make both lh and oxy, you might not be able to find monopropellant there, or perhaps its locked up in hard rock and you need a more robust piece of hardware or more power to get it out. you might need to fly around lathe for an extended period of time to top off a xenon tank, all while burning precious fuel. there is room here to strike a balance between too hard and too easy.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Nuke

[Laie]

But, they should only be able to do so after the specific process for that biome has been researched.

I like that idea. A lot.

However, be aware that the devs are currently only considering resources from asteroids (and consider the addition of a proper asteroid belt and/or asteroids around Jool). I suspect that they chose this in order to bypass the problem of resource scanning. There may be different densities of $resource on different rocks, but then they'll probably be displayed in the tracking station.

[Northstar1989]

However, be aware that the devs are currently only considering resources from asteroids (and consider the addition of a proper asteroid belt and/or asteroids around Jool).

Citation needed.

Regards,

Northstar

[FishInferno]

I like the idea of resources being tied to asteroids, but only if asteroids are found throughout the entire Kerbol system