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Announcing Northstar's Collaborative Kerbal Career Campaign: what to build next?


Northstar1989

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Greetings fellow Kerbonauts! Have you ever wanted to partake in a Community Game of KSP? Help make the decisions for where a budding space program should go with each major mission? Well now's your chance! Announcing...

Northstar's Collaborative Kerbal Career Campaign

(Clicking on the text will direct you to the main thread where progress reports can be found.)

The idea is this: I have started a new Career Mode game, and will be soliciting community opinions about where to go next with each major mission (I will still be performing relatively minor missions in the background, such as contracts and Kerbin biome-science...)

You the players get to decide where each successive mission will head off to, BUT only the first two responses for each new mission will be considered (in addition to my own ideas- so I always have SOMETHING to work off of even if you guys don't respond).

In order to keep at least the first couple pages of the missions thread clear, I would prefer if responses for the first mission or two were made here. After that, I will be evaluating whether it is worth the time to keep a separate thread open here, vs. simply having people post on the main thread, based on the quality and volume of responses... (as well as how easy I find it to monitor this thread)

So... Without further adieu, I *HIGHLY* suggest you bop on over to the main thread, see where things lie right now, and start deciding on ideas for the next major mission for my space program outside of simply reaching Kerbin orbit...

Regards,

Northstar

Edited by Northstar1989
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The mun has inspired generations of kerbals, being the most prominent celestial object in the sky. First mission greater than suborbital hops and basic orbits should be a mun flyby, preferably using a free return trajectory. Be sure to do an EVA on the far side of the mun to take some pictures.

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The mun has inspired generations of kerbals, being the most prominent celestial object in the sky. First mission greater than suborbital hops and basic orbits should be a mun flyby, preferably using a free return trajectory. Be sure to do an EVA on the far side of the mun to take some pictures.

Sounds good to me (and Eeloo is out of the question this early on- I could do it, but it wouldn't be cost-effective yet...)

I've also developed an extremely robust heavy-lifter to do it. Take a look at the first orbital launch I made in the mission reports thread to see it in action (it's even recoverable Space-X style, although I forgot to fly it back to the launchpad on that launch)...

Regards,

Northstar

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A bit confused as to why this is in the General Discussion section. To me it just comes off as an ad for your mission reports thread.

Build a base on Minmus.

It's a discussion of ideas for the missions to be carried out in the main thread. It's not really a Fan Work in itself, so I couldn't find somewhere it seemed to better belong where it would be noticed. You're also a lot more free to go off on discussing tangents here (although I discourage it, I'll probably be guilty of it myself) , as it won't clutter the main thread.

A Minmus base is a nice idea, but still a little beyond my means (though I'm working towards some of the necessary tech nodes). Take a look at my latest post (will be up in just a second) for the latest on where I am in the tech tree (I've now got the construction and rocketry nodes up through Very Heavy Rocketry and Advanced Metalworks, and up to about the tier where you get the more advanced ladders across the rest of the tech tree).

Infrastructure projects aren't a bad idea (I generally like doing them), they just need to be feasible. For instance, I've been thinking about trying to develop a "SpaceShip One" style mothership launch-assist system using Flight Manager for Reusable Stages, once I unlock a couple more tech nodes. And a LKO fuel depot is finally within reasonable reach...

Anyways, that was one of the next two suggestions. Any others from someone else?

Regards,

Northstar

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If you've achieved orbit, and docked successfully in orbit, and done a munar flyby, then the next step is to land somewhere (Mun or Minmus) and bring a surface sample back to Kerbin.

And yes on the LKO fuel depot.

One thing at a time (either the landing or the depot). But a Mun/Minmus landing sounds good...

Just don't forget you're dealing with one of the more experienced players on the forum, though. I've actually written a *guide* on orbital refueling, if you check my signature...

I know you said you're doing Kerbin Biome science in the 'background', but how about a there-and-back trip to one of the poles?

I think you meant one of Kerbin's poles, but I wouldn't mind visiting Minmus' poles either. Since I'm only taking two new suggestions after each mission, and yours was technically the third, I'll meet you halfway by conducting a landing on one of the Munar poles. It also seems like a good place for a first landing, since I eventually intend to build a base there (to extract water from some of the small amounts of ice near the poles, similar to the ice we think exists near the poles of our own moon...) I can leave some equipment behind that will help with that in the long run...

OK, so I've got my next mission plan- a Munar polar landing. No more ideas will be considered for the meantime, until that's done.

Regards,

Northstar

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OK, so I've got my next mission plan- a Munar polar landing. No more ideas will be considered for the meantime, until that's done.

Post screenshots?:)

And yeah, I meant Kerbin's poles (I'm a little jet-happy...), but I liked your method of including the suggestion.

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Post screenshots?:)

And yeah, I meant Kerbin's poles (I'm a little jet-happy...), but I liked your method of including the suggestion.

All screenshots, explanations for how things went, etc., can be found on the main thread in Fan Works.

EDIT: Also, I've decided to engage in a Kerbin polar expedition as well, so as to fulfill some contracts before my Mun landing (in the hopes of possibly unlocking more contracts that will reward me for my Mun landing- such as a parts-test of the lander engine). I'm currently working on a mothership-style suborbital mission- keep a lookout for posts on that in the near future.

Regards,

Northstar

Edited by Northstar1989
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OK guys, so a Munar polar landing is in full swing, and a Kerbin-based polar expedition is also currently landed on the northern ice cap and awaiting daylight to fly back to the KSC (it's an electrically-powered plane with large static solar panels built onto the wings). Both of those efforts will take me quite a while, and I still need to launch a second 1-Kerbal service module for the Munar Landing (the Mobile Lab takes 2 Kerbals to operate). You can find the latest progress HERE...

While all that's still in progress, though, I wanted to solicit opinions on the next main effort- infrastructure. Beyond the simple station I'm building in Munar orbit, which comes with a Mobile Lab, 2 Clamp-O-Tron Jr's and one standard Clamp-O-tron docking port, and substantial storage capacity for MMH/N2O4 (a hypergolic fuel mixture), I'm looking to tackle some much more ambitious (and useful) infrastructure projects in the long run- ones that will actually save me launch mass in the long run beyond the simple benefits of a multiple-use lander...

The projects I am currently considering (feel free to suggest additional options) are all significantly complex, and enabled by the mod-package I'm using. So take a look at my installed mods if you want to add different/new ideas... Here's what I've come up with so far:

Munar Regolith-Mining Base: This idea revolves around constructing a Munar surface base to mine regolith for LqdOxygen and Aluminum (KSP-Interstellar allows me to set up ISRU refineries for this purpose- but they have rather large electrical power requirements to operate at full capacity). In its simplest form, this would have me deploy a base with a pair of built-in Gigantor solar panels, and use those to power the ISRU refinery (in the newest versions of KSP-I, surplus ElectricCharge gets converted to MegaJoules- and solar panels can directly run MPD's and refineries...) A more complicated, but cost-effective plan, would see me leave the heavy solar panels behind, and power the refinery with Microwave Beamed Power from the KSC (produced from either nuclear or solar sources), and begin deploying a series of orbital power-relays (repeater stations) in orbit as well.

Orbital Mass-Relays/ Momentum-Exchangers: One of the more complicated ideas, this relies on me exploiting Conservation of Momentum to my space program's advantage. Basically, I would set up a space station with two sets of Mass Drivers facing in opposite directions (in 2x symmetry with a central "loading area" in the middle). Then, whenever I had two payloads needing to travel in opposite directions- for instance a crew capsule ready to return home or a piece of debris I want to de-orbit, and a fuel tanker I'm looking to boost into a higher orbit- I would fire off both mass drivers in rapid succession.

Alternatively, I would build just one longer coil of Mass Drivers, and turn the whole station around using RCS or reaction wheels. Would be tricky to get right (I need to impart equal momentum to both payloads- which probably means tweaking the power levels between launches), and likely require installation of ExtraPlanetary Launchpads to construct the whole thing in orbit (Mass Drivers- as little more than simple coils of aluminum wire- are one of the few things we could realistically build in orbit in the near future...) The payoffs would be relatively slight either way, although I could construct two such stations- one in Kerbin orbit (crew return capsules go retrograde, almost anything else the other way), and one in orbit of the Mun (landers and fuel ferries go retrograde to surface bases and unexplored biomes, vessels finished making refueling stops the other way...) Microwave Beamed Power would also help this to work efficiently, as the Mass Drivers require a lot of power to function...

This idea also birthed a discussion thread on the Science Labs sub-forum:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/98615-Using-orbital-debris-as-reaction-mass-profiting-from-orbital-mass-drivers

Mun/Minmus Ground-Based Mass-Drivers: Like the mass drivers I've been using to assist my launches on Kerbin, except hauled to one of its moons (or built there from hauled materials using ExtraPlanetary Launchpads), and deployed mostly horizontally due to the lack of an atmosphere (when launching on atmosphere-less moons, you want to tip over and build horizontal velocity as soon as possible) The tricky part about this is properly supporting the Mass Drivers with KAS ground pylons, so the recoil doesn't send them flying in the opposite direction, and deploying the Mass Drivers into a horizontal position in the first place (a sufficiently tall stack, when tipped, could explode...) I also have my concerns about launching horizontally- namely, how do I line up my rockets properly? This might require specially-designed craft or ground-based cranes/winches (and possibly Infernal Robotics- which I've still never tackled the challenge of learning) in order to load the craft into the Mass Driver- which would *greatly* limit its utility. Still, it can't be denied that free Delta-V (especially on a moon where there is no atmosphere to sap it away) is always nice...

Microwave Beamed Power Network: Eventually, I'm going to be relying on Microwave Beamed Power to the point that I use it for Heavy Launch Vehicles (like I've done in past saves- just check out "Kerbin and Beyond: a Maturing Space Program"). But in the meantime, I've yet to unlock the required tech node (Specialized Electrics). The science from my first Munar landings could change that- but it's going to represent a significant investment of my valuable Science points, slowing down my progress in other areas as a result. Still, it opens up or saves costs on a lot of exciting possibilities. From large interplanetary "motherships" which carry a KSP-Interstellar refinery onboard, and use beamed power to split stored water into LiquidH2 and LqdOxygen (thus allowing storage of LH2/LOX in deep space at much higher density and without any of the associated boil-off issues) right before they or parasitic ships perform orbital maneuvers or landings, to using beamed power to power both orbital and surface-based offworld Mass Drivers and ISRU refineries, the possibilities are endless. It could also come in rather handy for small ion-powered probes in the short run (even providing the power of a couple Gigantors, with only the small mass of a Microwave Receiver, is well worth it for an ion-powered Jool probe...)

Kerosene Fuel Depots: When it comes to specific impulse for chemical rockets, LH2/LOX propulsion is king. But it has serious boil-off issues, and the only good way to handle those (without an active-cooling system option to mitigate boil-off: which NathanKell, the creator of RealFuels, has vaguely hinted at might eventually be coming with a "RealHeat" mod- but I don't foresee getting to use anytime in the immediate future...) is by storing in as LqdWater and electrolyzing it- which requires large amounts of electrical power. A simpler option is to store Kerosene long-term in orbit of the Mun (which doesn't have boil-off issues) and complement it with LqdOxygen launched using reusable Aluminum-Hybrid rocket launches (the Mun might not have much water outside of the poles, but Aluminum-Oxide regolith is one thing it has in abundance). The Kerosene still has to be launched from Kerbin in tankers, of course (although it *is* possible to manufacture it on carbon-rich planets/moons in real-life using the Reverse Water Gas Shift and Fischer-Tropsch reactions, something I have long been bugging FractalUK to implement as a reaction for Duna and Laythe...)

This way, I only have to launch only a portion of the fuel mass as if I continue to rely on hypergolics for deep-space operations, and get to benefit from Kero/LOX's moderately improved ISP vs. hypergolics. If I choose this plan, I might also install the engine parts (and some other odds-and-ends, such as KW's 3.75 meter docking port) from KW Rocketry, since few of the NovaPunch2 engines currently can utilize Kerosene (although this is something I should take up with NathanKell- I don't see any good reason for this restriction...)

Atmosphere-Skimming Propulsive Fluid Accumulators: This one is a long-shot. I've tried developing these designs before (in "Kerbin and Beyond: a Maturing Space Program"), but was hindered by stock KSP's fuel-burn ratios (10 tons of LiquidFuel are burned for every ton of Oxidizer), and my inability to utilize the majority of the atmosphere that was generating drag for my harvesting-ship (Nitrogen, despite having a number of potential uses in real life: from ISRU processing into N2O4 to use in Nitrogen-electric engines, has absolutely no use in KSP-Interstellar). However, this time I have FAR installed, which should allow for a more realistic drag model (and relatively less drag skimming the upper atmosphere as a result), RealFuels- which should allow me to burn fuel mixtures that are more realistic and thus more Oxygen by mass (Kero/LOX is over 70-80% Oxygen by mass in its stoichiometic ratio, and LH2/LOX is 88.9% Oxygen by mass- so I have relatively more demand for my harvested LqdOxygen) as well as having realistically higher ISP than stock LFO, and the option of simply installing Karbonite and circumventing the madness of 65 x 65 km harvesting "orbits" by skimming LqdOxygen from *above* the Karman Line (what I assume the edge of the atmosphere represents in stock, and where real Propulsive Fluid Accumulator designs would actually operate), thus drastically cutting down on my fuel-expenses for station-keeping in the first place...

I'm also bugging FractalUK to add a Nitrogen resource (which I could easily convert to the RealFuels version with a MM patch) and fuel-mode for the KSP-Interstellar plasma thruster, and possibly allow players to skim atmospheres from above the Karman line (like can be done in real life- there are still occasional atmospheric particles above this altitude), either/both of which would make this proposition MUCH more realistic/profitable- if still somewhat tedious... (no time-warp above 4x below the Karman line, or 10x just above it)

Permanent Science Outposts: KSP-Interstellar adds Science Labs, which can produce Science points at a very gradual rate if supplied with enough electricity. FractalUK (the mod author) is also working on integrating them into the stock science system- although I don't know how much progress he's made with that yet (they may already be integrated in the version I'm running- I haven't checked yet...)

This provides an actual incentive for building permanent stations/outposts: whether on the surface of the Mun or in orbit of Kerbin. The further out from Kerbin I go, the more lucrative the research is- but also the more expensive it's going to be to resupply them if/when I install TAC Life Support, since they require a crew of 2 Kerbals to operate (unless the ECLSS Greenhouse mod ever gets updated for 0.25- which would allow me to equip these stations/outposts with biological regenerative life-support systems and virtually eliminate the need for regular supply missions- at the expense of a very high mass I would have to get to orbit- as greenhouses are rather heavy...) Without TACLS, or with an adequate number of greenhouses, I could even make a profit off the research- by converting the science points into funding through Strategies...

All of these are ambitious infrastructure projects, although some are much more difficult than others. I would appreciate player feedback on what to pursue first/next...

Regards,

Northstar

Edited by Northstar1989
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  • 1 month later...

I know this is a bit of a bump of the thread, but I really want to see people's ideas!

By the way, and update on mission progress:

The Polar Expedition was successfully recovered, and the Science Points put to good use to advance my space program.

Two series of Mun Landings have been carried out- each using a fully-reusable lander (the first lander had to be dumped on a sub-orbital trajectory when it ran out of fuel so as to not strand the Kerbal and science on the Munar surface. The Kerbal finished the circularization with his EVA pack, and the Command/Service Module flew from the Munar Orbital Science Station to meet up with him.)

The first series included a Munar polar landing- although follow-up landings would be desirable, as the available Science Points were not completely exhausted (in particular, more Materials Study and Mystery Goo experiments need to be carried out- and as the poles were reached by sub-orbital hop, I don't even have a Crew Report from the poles...) The tricky part about further landings is that I'm trying to set aside a bit of funding for Duna missions and infrastructure-projects...

I also landed two ISRU Reactors close together on the Mun's Farside Crater (don't ask me why I picked that location- if I had been thinking more clearly, I would have opted for a location that could keep line-of-sight on Kerbin, so utilizing Microwave Beamed Power from Kerbin's surface and LKO would be easier...) They each have a moderate-sized solar panel, although that's not enough to power any substantial rate of Regolith-mining. I'm going to need a nuclear reactor or Microwave Beamed Power (or a HUGE solar farm) for any appreciable rate of LqdOxygen and Aluminum production...

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338 meters (the final distance after a short hop re-purposing most of the ascent fuel in the skycrane) may *seem* like a short distance, but it's not nearly close enough to connect the reactors using KAS pipes. And getting the two that close with a skycrane was a nightmare, as the CoM isn't perfectly-balanced on the reactors. So it's likely I'll need to drag the two closer together using a rover...

Regards,

Northstar

Edited by Northstar1989
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Mission proposal:

Even with the powerful Interstellar-grade technologies being developed, it could yet be decades before an ascent from the surface of Eve is possible. Yet the public yearn to see more of this vividly-coloured ocean-bearing world, so like Kerbin and yet so unlike. The only option is Eve To Stay. Begin your colonisation of the purple planet.

Edited by cantab
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Mission proposal:

Even with the powerful Interstellar-grade technologies being developed, it could yet be decades before an ascent from the surface of Eve is possible. Yet the public yearn to see more of this vividly-coloured ocean-bearing world, so like Kerbin and yet so unlike. The only option is Eve To Stay. Begin your colonisation the purple planet.

A BASE on Eve?

*chokes*

Surely you can't be serious?

I still haven't gotten a single infrastructure project up and operational- which (with lots of infrastructure) is the only way I could dream of affording something like that in Career Mode...

How about something more reasonable? A nice interplanetary flag-and-footprints exercise, perhaps? Or one of the infrastructure projects I suggested above?

Regards,

Northstar

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Hence the "Begin". That can be just about anything you like really, though the obvious thing would be to survey potential sites.

Eve can be reached with little delta-V, considerably less than even a one-way Mun landing. Landing is simple, though I'll grant that FAR+DRE will create challenges not in stock. Science returns are good even if you're transmitting, thanks to the high multipliers.

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Hence the "Begin". That can be just about anything you like really, though the obvious thing would be to survey potential sites.

Eve can be reached with little delta-V, considerably less than even a one-way Mun landing. Landing is simple, though I'll grant that FAR+DRE will create challenges not in stock. Science returns are good even if you're transmitting, thanks to the high multipliers.

Ughh. You may be right- but the last time I went to Eve, I got MONSTER lag, and I wasn't even running FAR. I don't have much of a desire to return with anything larger than a probe... Plus, I can't see what use a surface base would be there... It's so hot that virtually any fuel not actively-cooled would quickly boil off (and the Thermal Fin parts are current out-of-commission on the latest dev release of RealFuels) :(

How about a Duna base? It's nice and cold there... :)

Regards,

Northstar

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