When Female Kerbals are added, be sure to make at least one an orange-suit.

[Bartybum]

Short hair isn't masculine at all, that is a cultural view. Their voices are squeaky and high-pitched. They don't seem particularly masculine to me. And none of the randomly-generated Kerbals have facial hair, only two of the NPCs IIRC. They probably have it to look more refined, or more unrefined, depending on the case. If facial hair is a masculine trait, then not having facial hair is a feminine trait? And since most Kerbals don't have any...

Please tell me where I said that lack of facial hair is feminine. I'm well aware that there are males who may not have stubble, who may choose to shave.

Sure, they should add more female-sounding names. But that's not why I'm calling you sexist. You were trying to suggest that the Kerbals are male in appearance, when they most certainly are not.

Adding female names to a square face with a skin-grazing haircut isn't going to convince the general public when they look at videos of the game.

The general public of most societies on our planet will respectfully disagree with you on the claim that they don't look male. Traditionally (last 40 years), in most cultures around the world, males have had shorter hair than females. I'm not ignoring the presence of women with short hair, I'm saying that short hair is typically associated with males, and hair as short as the current Kerbals' is almost never found on females. This association is the reason male children often have short hair, whereas girls have long hair.

Anyway, what's the harm in adding more than one hairstyle? I'm willing to bet that the devs will one day open up to randomized hairstyles. The more variety, the merrier.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Bartybum

[Holo]

Short hair isn't masculine at all, that is a cultural view

Cultural views still exist.

[Solarspaceprobe]

Makes sense, otherwise people would complain about discrimination.

[Bartybum]

Makes sense, otherwise people would complain about discrimination.

The way I see it is that making one of them an orange suit for the sake of diversity is sexist. NO ONE in cases such as these should be receiving special preference over someone else solely because of their gender. The original three are orange because they pay homage to the game's roots and, if I remember correctly one of the devs' childhood. Female Kerbals happen to not be part of this orange homage. Therefore the claim of Squad perpetuating gender discrimination is an invalid and quite frankly ignorant accusation.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Bartybum

[r4pt0r]

-snip

I agree, its like hiring persons of color just to fill a quota. but thats neither here nor there.

[Crown]

[...]Adding female names to a square face with a skin-grazing haircut isn't going to convince the general public when they look at videos of the game.

The general public of most societies on our planet will respectfully disagree with you on the claim that they don't look male.[...]hair as short as the current Kerbals' is almost never found on females.[...]

I view the Kerbals as unisex. And even the names aren't gender-specific for me. On that hair-thing, I can tell that almost never doesn't apply to my circle of friends.

If we ask for distinguishable female and male Kerbals, what would be the criteria to tell one gender apart from another? Because name and hair can't tell a human's gender (Andrea is an Italian name for males). I can't tell a Hamster's gender by just looking at it. Maybe Kerbals are like Hamsters and only have one haircut. Noone looks at a bunch of hamsters and says "There's only male hamsters! Add females!".

I'm totally fine if there was female sounding names and maybe different hairstyles (but not too extravagant).

Replaced that three letter word with gender even if it's not the same

[Whirligig Girl]

I view the Kerbals as unisex. And even the names aren't gender-specific for me. On that hair-thing, I can tell that almost never doesn't apply to my circle of friends.

If we ask for distinguishable female and male Kerbals, what would be the criteria to tell one gender apart from another? Because name and hair can't tell a human's gender (Andrea is an Italian name for males). I can't tell a Hamster's gender by just looking at it. Maybe Kerbals are like Hamsters and only have one haircut. Noone looks at a bunch of hamsters and says "There's only male hamsters! Add females!".

I'm totally fine if there was female sounding names and maybe different hairstyles (but not too extravagant).

Replaced that three letter word with gender even if it's not the same

The unisex/genderless argument is DONE. They have already confirmed that Kerbals have gender, and that there will be visual differences.

[Whirligig Girl]

The way I see it is that making one of them an orange suit for the sake of diversity is sexist. NO ONE in cases such as these should be receiving special preference over someone else solely because of their gender. The original three are orange because they pay homage to the game's roots and, if I remember correctly one of the devs' childhood. Female Kerbals happen to not be part of this orange homage. Therefore the claim of Squad perpetuating gender discrimination is an invalid and quite frankly ignorant accusation.

Actually, Jeb Bill and Bob weren't the only part of HarvesteR's childhood. There was also Kirk, Sara, and a few others.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/8995-I-have-found-it!!-THE-ORIGINAL-KERBO-LOG!

[Dodgey]

Actually, Jeb Bill and Bob weren't the only part of HarvesteR's childhood. There was also Kirk, Sara, and a few others.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/8995-I-have-found-it!!-THE-ORIGINAL-KERBO-LOG!

Pyres but Jeb, Bill and Bob were the original three in the game, that's the point. Personally I think it would be cool to have another colour of suit for the Kerbals which were listed in that log, but it doesn't change that point that Jeb, Bill and Bob are special to the game and should remain special.

[TheCanadianVendingMachine]

I don't think that we should add "Female" Kerbals. This is just appealing to the audience that is claiming that games are sexist because they don't include females. I personally believe that people should get off their high horse, and realize that there are more important matters than a gender. Such as aerodyamics, re-entry, EVA in IVA, and releasing the game. I hope that this is the LAST thing the Devs add before finishing the game, because of it's rank on needs.

[r4pt0r]

I don't think that we should add "Female" Kerbals. This is just appealing to the audience that is claiming that games are sexist because they don't include females. I personally believe that people should get off their high horse, and realize that there are more important matters than a gender. Such as aerodyamics, re-entry, EVA in IVA, and releasing the game. I hope that this is the LAST thing the Devs add before finishing the game, because of it's rank on needs.

I love you <3

[Bilfr3d]

Why not just Jeb's sister? Jebedina???

[r4pt0r]

Why not just Jeb's sister? Jebedina???

Jebedina, bobbete, billda

[Cally]

I'm female, and most people think I'm not. Maybe the females can have "female" hair, but 1 in 10 or something have normal Kerbal hair or something. Honestly, I don't care either way.

[Crown]

The unisex/genderless argument is DONE. They have already confirmed that Kerbals have gender, and that there will be visual differences.

That's a part I missed, apparently.

[Dodgey]

That's a part I missed, apparently.

Well they are confirmed by the devs to be coming in an update, this conversation is wheather or not some should be made orange suits. Which I still haven't heard a good reason for by the way.

[Brotoro]

An orange-suited female kerbal astronaut? I don't care.

I think it's more important that at some of the administrators, scientists, engineers, or mission controllers in the game be female.

[Wooks]

Valentina sounds cool: Jeb, Bill, Bob and Val.

[Master Tao]

Well they are confirmed by the devs to be coming in an update, this conversation is wheather or not some should be made orange suits. Which I still haven't heard a good reason for by the way.

Because most cultures constantly and consistently teach boys and girls that they have different interests. For example, 6 weeks ago, I worked with 32 elementary students for the first time. At the end of that first meeting, I offered each of them a choice of a foil star sticker or a cartoony dinosaur sticker. Between 1/4 and 1/3 of the girls chose the dinosaur sticker and a similar number of boys chose the stars, and yet one of my second graders was surprised I even asked. She said that of course she wanted the star because only boys like dinosaurs. Games like this need prominent male and female characters so that boys and girls don't assume that only boys should be interested in rocketry, space, and exploration.

If you're interested in other ways culture influences preferences, take a look at the history color associations for boys and girls.

[Commander Jebidiah]

I agree with your post but if Jeb, Bill and Bob were the first kerbals in the game they are all male then the first three Female Kerbals should get Orange suits because they were the First Female Kerbals.

[megatiger78]

first new female kerbonaut will be alice. everyone knows that

[Pthigrivi]

Yeah Im actually with Tao. Its just more important that the game represents women as equals than it is that it adheres to some silly in-game canon. Like it or not, most everyone who plays this game perceives all the kerbals we've seen as male. It was actually the first thing that really, really bugged me about the game. Its a huge oversight and one I think the devs are wise in addressing. The main thing is this could be a great game for female players, the game should be giving them characters they can relate to, and even male players should be seeing perceptibly female kerbals looking like and doing all the things that the male kerbals are doing. Really this should mean providing an equal number of males and females for the default starting line up of orange-ranked kerbals for players to choose from on their first launches.

[Nahim]

I like to think that Kerbal space program tends to appeal as an Ol'Gold age of space exploration. You know... Von Brauwn, Apollo etc. It also was an age were womans suppose to be good wifes, no scientists or tecnicians. Its ambientation.

But at this moment, Valentina terenshinikova simply lands an Vostok over my head and make me change my point of view!

Girlz rulez da space!

[Dodgey]

Master Tao believe it or not I mostly agree with you, if the Kerbals meant something or were a significant character. I mean honestly, is having this one group of three males be the only ones in orange space suits really that bad, does it really make that much of a difference? I think at the moment all of the Kerbals follow the same rules for permanent death but even if that were to change I see no reason why three female Kerbals couldn't be made blue suits as has been said in this thread a number of times.

I've said it before and I will say it again, the first three are special in their own right, I wouldn't care if it had been Bill, Bob, Mary and Susie as the first four, it's not about gender, it's about them being who they are.

[Nahim]

Master Tao believe it or not I mostly agree with you, if the Kerbals meant something or were a significant character. I mean honestly, is having this one group of three males be the only ones in orange space suits really that bad, does it really make that much of a difference? I think at the moment all of the Kerbals follow the same rules for permanent death but even if that were to change I see no reason why three female Kerbals couldn't be made blue suits as has been said in this thread a number of times.

I've said it before and I will say it again, the first three are special in their own right, I wouldn't ca

re if it had been Bill, Bob, Mary and Susie as the first four, it's not about gender, it's about them being who they are.

Yes, that make perfect sense to me too.

There is no much background for our beloved kermans, and mostly of it is canon made by the komunity here. (Mostly thanks to czokletmuss's "great tour" opus)