K.Yeon

[1.3.0] OPT Space Plane v2.0.1 - updated 29/07/2017

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All,

I'm hoping someone recognizes my issue and what I need to do about it.  First off I absolutely love the OPT parts, they make for a perfect spaceplane.  My problem unfortunately is that no matter what I do (Including stripping everything down to bare essentials) my planes seem to ALWAYS be trying to Yaw to one side or the other once I get up to a certain speed (Generally ~350m/s).  If I have SAS on the plane starts to use the tail more and more to one side in order to stay on course and if i turn SAS off the plane starts to bank (Yaw only) to one side.  If i don't turn off SAS it eventually gets so bad that the entire plane spins out of control.

I have also focused on CoM and CoL.  I have ensured that CoL is always behind CoM and the amount of fuel burned is less than 10%  when the Yaw gets really bad.  I've also completely restarted the aircraft from scratch and focused on balance of parts to ensure I didn't put something on the wrong side etc with no change.

I've tried several different designs but nothing seems to work.  I even re-installed Kerbal from scratch and the mods I use.  

 

Any ideas to try?

 

-Thanks in advance

Edited by ExcaliburVT

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@ExcaliburVT someone else mentioned this same problem and I think I met it myself and didn't realize it. What I found is that the OPT aerodynamic RCS blocks (among other things) started producing cruel and unusual amounts of body lift, but even without them, it happened to me with both a J body and K body plane. I suspect it's actually some new glitch in KSP because it's not every day I get this problem.

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Using FAR or no?  With far, these parts work well although the com/col display balls in the sph should not be trusted.... the balls seem to follow the stock aero model or... something... and they will continually show col in front of com even though it isn't really.

However your control issues, I dont have them, so not sure if using far would help or not in that specific case.  It generally makes the spaceplane experience better, however.  The current version of it says 1.3.0 but it works in 1.3.1 and 1.4.x per my testing.

 

You're also using the words bank and yaw interchangeably and they are not the same thing.  Which is it?  At what speed? You said 350 m/s but a ground speed without an altitude isn't useful for answering aerodynamics questions sadly.

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@ss8193 

Lol  usually I’m a stickler for getting terms right but you’re perfectly correct about all that. The issue is definitely Yaw not Roll and it was usually occurring I guess as I was transitioning into supersonic (to remove the ground speed and alt from the equation).  I tried FAR and had more success but I’m glad you mentioned that the CoM and CoL aren’t accurate as I had a lot of difficulty with that  

 

I was finally able to get things to work without FAR last night and I think the problem may have had something to do with me enabling the advanced settings and making parts rigid attachment.  I removed rigid for everything but the wings as I previously enabled it because I was getting seriously floppy wings that were shearing off. 

I still had significant Yaw while taking off but it evened out and flew reasonably well for the rest of the orbital insertion.

I may try FAR again and see if things improve more.

 

Thanks!

 

 

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OPT Legacy release is nearly here. The biggest part(s) of it (B9 Part Switch configs) are mostly complete. K. Yeon's FAR config will finally be included, and my modlets for USI and WBI integration will be absorbed.

CryoTank and CryoEngine options are inbound.

Spoiler

If anyone's interested I can make an optional config that installs a price to pay into makes the engines from OPT Main a little more... interesting to build with, and a little less wildly OP....... *evil smirk*

 

Edited by JadeOfMaar
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On 3/15/2018 at 6:58 AM, ExcaliburVT said:

@ss8193 

Lol  usually I’m a stickler for getting terms right but you’re perfectly correct about all that. The issue is definitely Yaw not Roll and it was usually occurring I guess as I was transitioning into supersonic (to remove the ground speed and alt from the equation).  I tried FAR and had more success but I’m glad you mentioned that the CoM and CoL aren’t accurate as I had a lot of difficulty with that  

 

I was finally able to get things to work without FAR last night and I think the problem may have had something to do with me enabling the advanced settings and making parts rigid attachment.  I removed rigid for everything but the wings as I previously enabled it because I was getting seriously floppy wings that were shearing off. 

I still had significant Yaw while taking off but it evened out and flew reasonably well for the rest of the orbital insertion.

I may try FAR again and see if things improve more.

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

I actually know exactly what you're talking about.....and thought it was just me with the issue.

I want to say that I notice it far less than before, but I do know what you mean. I always assumed that it was drag of the parts (I may be imagining but it feels like the parts have a lot more drag than they should?) so if I built a long plane, it was if there was a rope attached to the nose of the place/space-plane pulling it to the side. But I for one can not wait for the mod to get updated :):) I built "the" perfect SSTA with KAS/crane in the hull that would dock an exploration rover...*just* a week or so before the update. Legit refresh CKAN and forum daily waiting for an update.

 

 

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9 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

OPT Legacy release is nearly here. The biggest part(s) of it (B9 Part Switch configs) are mostly complete. K. Yeon's FAR config will finally be included, and my modlets for USI and WBI integration will be absorbed.

CryoTank and CryoEngine options are inbound.

  Hide contents

If anyone's interested I can make an optional config that installs a price to pay into makes the engines from OPT Main a little more... interesting to build with, and a little less wildly OP....... *evil smirk*

 

I gave up trying to use Cryo Tanks/LH2, too many problems and incompatibilities with mods I use. But thanks for this option, hope it helps many people.

I would like to see this option, something that respect the stock balance would be very welcome.

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On 3/16/2018 at 9:44 PM, JadeOfMaar said:

OPT Legacy release is nearly here. The biggest part(s) of it (B9 Part Switch configs) are mostly complete. K. Yeon's FAR config will finally be included, and my modlets for USI and WBI integration will be absorbed.

CryoTank and CryoEngine options are inbound.

  Reveal hidden contents

If anyone's interested I can make an optional config that installs a price to pay into makes the engines from OPT Main a little more... interesting to build with, and a little less wildly OP....... *evil smirk*

 

As you might guess I am keen for OPT to make the jump to 1.4.1. :)

I would ask for a little clarification on this post. OPT legacy, not erm the other one?

Your modlets, USI WBI will be absorbed? Does this mean A. That installing opt legacy will have those modlets folded into the main gamedata folder, B. Your modlets will be bundled as optional extras which can be moved into the gamedata folder by the user?

Same sort of question for the Cryo options.

The reason I ask is curiosity, clarity and I know some other mods, erm nerta? have stuff like decaying nrts, lfo vs mono fuel options as well basic patches that the user has to repeatedly copy into the gamedata folder as each update comes out.

Apologies if I am asking silly questions and being overly dense.

On 3/17/2018 at 2:00 AM, Amoun said:

 

I actually know exactly what you're talking about.....and thought it was just me with the issue.

I want to say that I notice it far less than before, but I do know what you mean. I always assumed that it was drag of the parts (I may be imagining but it feels like the parts have a lot more drag than they should?) so if I built a long plane, it was if there was a rope attached to the nose of the place/space-plane pulling it to the side. But I for one can not wait for the mod to get updated :):) I built "the" perfect SSTA with KAS/crane in the hull that would dock an exploration rover...*just* a week or so before the update. Legit refresh CKAN and forum daily waiting for an update.

 

 

RE: CoL & CoM. There is a mod, I believe it is called correctCol, that addresses the stock game issue with displaying useful CoL and maybe CoM. Might be worth taking a look at?

Also at times I have found my craft having rotational dual symmetry rather that plain mirror. Not always obvious as you might believe it would be. It might be just me, but at times I really have to take the plane apart to fix this irritating insistence on symmetry switching.  

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3 hours ago, Apaseall said:

As you might guess I am keen for OPT to make the jump to 1.4.1. :)

I would ask for a little clarification on this post. OPT legacy, not erm the other one?

Your modlets, USI WBI will be absorbed? Does this mean A. That installing opt legacy will have those modlets folded into the main gamedata folder, B. Your modlets will be bundled as optional extras which can be moved into the gamedata folder by the user?

Same sort of question for the Cryo options.

The reason I ask is curiosity, clarity and I know some other mods, erm nerta? have stuff like decaying nrts, lfo vs mono fuel options as well basic patches that the user has to repeatedly copy into the gamedata folder as each update comes out.

Apologies if I am asking silly questions and being overly dense.

OPT as-is works fine in 1.4.1. (It's just a parts mod. But I can't speak for FireSpitter and the fuel switching feature.) I have authority over OPT Legacy (and can do releases on SpaceDock) but not OPT Main.

My modlets will be in the Legacy package, not optional but will activate for themselves when their prerequisites are installed and will affect OPT Main. As separate mods on spaceDock they are now EOL.

The Cryo options I haven't decided on but can either arrive as contents of an Extras folder as Nertea does, or built-in and setup so you do not have to "deal with them at the gate." The tank types will only appear if Nertea's CryoTanks mod is installed. The engine options will appear as secondary engine modes. There will be no need to repeatedly add or remove a config file after every following update except maybe the optional engine balance pass.

Edited by JadeOfMaar
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So, in theory I could install legacy. If there are any missing parts I could then install main. Legacy would affect main. All will be well?

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27 minutes ago, Apaseall said:

So, in theory I could install legacy. If there are any missing parts I could then install main. Legacy would affect main. All will be well?

That's correct.

Legacy is an expansion pack (as much as it is a retirement home for parts from OPT Main; anyone is welcome to contribute to Legacy). Unfortunately as the main dev is very rarely around, Legacy is the only means to getting any OPT updates at all.

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@JadeOfMaar I didn't know Legacy was more than just the retirement home, that's very interesting.  I don't know if you have an answer for this, but is there a way to have IFS override firespitter where applicable? I recently learned that CryoTanksFS was messing up IFS-stock integration, and to a large extent Firespitter does the same thing to mod parts such as OPT

FWIW, IFS has support for cryogenic fuels
EDIT: Experimenting with removing the FS.cfg

EDIT2: Removing FS.cfg but leaving FS breaks fuelswitching. Trying with cfg but no FS

EDIT3: That didn't work either; it worked for some mods, but I sadly need FS for anything from Roverdude, as well as decal switchers and probably a few others.

Edited by Maffif
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@Maffif I intend to do away with FS and IFS. It is painful (very manual, very messy) to add tank options to a wide array of parts, meanwhile B9PS makes it quite easy to do the same. OPT's B9PS config is designed to remove all FS-related modules from its parts, and is already complete,  supporting CryoTanks and preserving any native mesh switching features in OPT's parts like the drop tanks and Stail fuel tank, and I've even used it to create subsets among the parts so tank options can be added to only the subset(s) of parts that are most fitting.

That said, FS and IFS are quite alike. So renaming modules should hopefully be all it takes. For example, this:

@PART:HAS[@MODULE[FSmeshSwitch]]:AFTER[InterstellarFuelSwitch]
{
	@MODULE[FSmeshSwitch]
	{
		@name = InterstellarMeshSwitch
	}
}

It's not guaranteed to work but I hope it does. I'm not home and not in good position to get the names right and list them all for you.

 

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I'll try that later on, thanks. It looks like that should do it

It isn't an issue now, but is the next time I want to make a high-vacuum-isp, nuclear turbojet spaceplane full of hydrazine, or a LqdHe3 fusion plane. I plan on developing a reentry/SSTO shuttles to dock with my interplanetary vessels.  It looks like some of the ships in 'the Spice' imgur shots have the same idea, albeit powered by handwavium instead of 'plausible' fuels/tech

I've been struggling with sideslip/uncontrollable yawing-even in FAR- just like what @ExcaliburVT was mentioning, so my program has sort of steered away from the beautiful spaceplanes it started with for the time being.

Edited by Maffif
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13 minutes ago, Maffif said:

albeit powered by handwavium

Lol!

Did your sideslip happen with just OPT Main installed or OPT main + Legacy?

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Using an OPT main craft with Mk4 engines, hadn't heard about legacy yet. I'll test it again

(but without the FAR patch, I hadn't noticed it)

 

By the way, you mentioned in the KSS thread that you aren't that familiar with KSPi.  It is a very big pack, adding loads of engines, reactors and other stuff.  It also throws in lots of fuels -hence, IFS.  Everything mostly checks out physics-wise but requires tech we don't have yet, or just stuff that is too expensive. All the way up until endgame, it is pretty balanced, but it is also old in places and somewhat user unfriendly.  You can get a few engines with million-ish isp (as they would IRL) such as dusty-plasma engines and the Daedalus, but they take several days/weeks to reach 0.01c (Persistent thrust is handy) and then endgame it has warp drives and a proper torch drive that combines high thrust and ISP. There's also a lot of provisions for beamed power,  and thermal turbojets enabling infinite jetflight even on worlds without oxygen (actual real tech, but unused because its an environmental nightmare).

The real appeal for me in KSPi is that everything save for endgame stuff is based firmly in physics, on a sliding scale from real (but not implemented) to theoretical

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Okay here we go.

Can't be sure I didn't mess something up, but this is with OPT, Legacy and FAR/FAR patch

https://imgur.com/gallery/GqGWi

Anyway, rockets serve me well enough for now, my agency has recoverable rocket SSTO's.  It occurs to me that an atomic aerospike engine would make an easier but less glamorous mothership-ground-back 

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@K.Yeon

I'm not big on posting here (I prefer to read), but after using OPT parts in one way or another on almost all my craft, (many times 75%+ of the craft) I felt you deserved to know that I love your parts.  In my opinion they are some of the best looking parts available for the game.  They line up very well, excellent textures/meshes, perform well, it's just an all around great mod.  You have done excellent work on it.

Thank you for this mod, it has surpassed B9 to become may favorite parts library.

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I have few questions

Is this mod compatible with ksp 1.3.1 ?

What about Iva is it required or  essential for this mod to work ??

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9 minutes ago, Oracle255 said:

I have few questions

Is this mod compatible with ksp 1.3.1 ?

What about Iva is it required or  essential for this mod to work ??

OPT's current releases work as far back as KSP 1.2 I think, and work just fine in 1.3 and 1.4.

IVA is never required for any parts mod to work... But other mods (Raster Prop Monitor and ASET Avionics) that make IVA actually add to gameplay need IVAs.

Edited by JadeOfMaar
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7 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

OPT's current releases work as far back as KSP 1.2 I think, and work just fine in 1.3 and 1.4.

IVA is never required for any parts mod to work... But other mods (Raster Prop Monitor and ASET Avionics) that make IVA actually add to gameplay need IVAs.

Thank for replying

But i have one more question

I have B9 aerospace mod installed will it conflict with this mod ?

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Hey so I apparently just started having an issue in the last day or 2, I don't *think* it's been reported yet, but if I try and use the J-fuselage Large Docking port (whether attached to something else, either a partially built ship, a completed ship, or just by itself), when I get to the runway or launch pad, the ship (or part, if it's just the docking port) will teleport about a mile into the sky and start falling back to earth. I tried attaching clamps to the plane I was building, all that does is keep the ship from falling back to earth once it teleports, oddly enough . I tried a clean install of OPT and it's dependencies, no dice. Anyone else having this issue or know how to fix it? I kinda depend on this part for every space plane design i end up making, I'm not gonna be able to keep building until I get this resolved. Log, if needed: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aix1lx_gUnyAMM7g6wI1jxuIGZK1-daR/view?usp=sharing

 

Edited by Stormie

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@Stormie  I Had the same issue but I had it with the vertical cargo bay J module. I was not able to find a solution. 

Edited by ExcaliburVT

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